Is 10-5-4 fertilizer good for growing cannabis?
- Thread starter Valcurium
- Start date
I agree, the N ratio is way too much during flowering but it should work good in veg. Also beastie bloomz by fox farms is basically monopotassium phosphate. Beastie is 0-50-30 and monopotassium phosphate is 0-52-34 and its 15 bux a pound on ebay. Id say using 1/8tsp per gallon would work just as well but this is just me brainstorming, dont attempt unless your comfortable with experimentation. I might give it a shot and i'll report back, have too get some first but its cheap compared too some crap.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Someone gets it. 
It's so easy to reverse engineer these products with inorganic salts, especially when they tell you what they're derived from.
You can get it even cheaper other places on the internet too. I use monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) as my only source of phosphate in my homebrew solution.
Potassium nitrate is used to get K up more than N. It has an NPK of 13-0-44.
I like to have a good amount of potassium for veg and the stretch period of flowering.
It's so easy to reverse engineer these products with inorganic salts, especially when they tell you what they're derived from.You can get it even cheaper other places on the internet too. I use monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) as my only source of phosphate in my homebrew solution.
Potassium nitrate is used to get K up more than N. It has an NPK of 13-0-44.
I like to have a good amount of potassium for veg and the stretch period of flowering.
Hell ya brother!! I've been pondering mixing up my own homebrew solution. i've got a bunch of chems laying around being a big amateur chemist along with being a organic chem major in college. Would ya mind sharing your homebrew recipe? I don't mean too hijack your thread OP but i think this adds too some interesting discussion and could save ya big bux along with being just plain fun and having total control over your nutrient regime and NPK ratios.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
for 3 gallons of distilled water (just for measurement sake), this makes a solution of NPK ratio of approximately 1-3-3 for mid flowering:
3.8g KNO3
10g KH2PO4
4.6g MgSO4.7H2O
8g 5Ca(NO[SUB]3[/SUB])[SUB]2[/SUB].NH[SUB]4[/SUB]NO[SUB]3[/SUB][SUP].[/SUP]10H[SUB]2[/SUB]O (this is a double salt, Yara calcium nitrate. You can use pure calcium nitrate, but yara is cheaper)
0.6g FeSO4.7H2O
Use 5g less KH2PO4 for 2-3-4 NPK ratio. I was using that mix for the stretch period. My plan is to emulate jacks for the late flowering period (1-3-2) before lowering ppm N for flush.
I use some other salts in tiny amounts for B,Mo,Mn, but I'm not sure if the plants actually need those. I really don't think the plant will even show symptoms without these micros.
You can also mix base solutions like 2M KNO3 which is about 202g/L, then use the mass concentration (0.202g/mL) to convert grams of solid to mL base solution. It's much easier to use a syringe to get 19mL of 2M KNO3 than a scale to measure 3.8g of solid KNO3, and it's the same amount. The molarity you use for each base solution is arbitrary but based on how much you think will dissolve into a liter bottle. I make a 1M solution of KH2PO4 while making 2M solutions of Ca(NO3)2, KNO3. I used to make 2M solution of MgSO4.7H2O, but that results in only 9.3mL of base solution (4.6g solid) and I use a 60mL syringe. Accuracy is improved by using a 1M solution and using twice as much base solution.
PS: Look for an application called "HydroBuddy" to help with the calculations and check out cropking for finding salts.
3.8g KNO3
10g KH2PO4
4.6g MgSO4.7H2O
8g 5Ca(NO[SUB]3[/SUB])[SUB]2[/SUB].NH[SUB]4[/SUB]NO[SUB]3[/SUB][SUP].[/SUP]10H[SUB]2[/SUB]O (this is a double salt, Yara calcium nitrate. You can use pure calcium nitrate, but yara is cheaper)
0.6g FeSO4.7H2O
Use 5g less KH2PO4 for 2-3-4 NPK ratio. I was using that mix for the stretch period. My plan is to emulate jacks for the late flowering period (1-3-2) before lowering ppm N for flush.
I use some other salts in tiny amounts for B,Mo,Mn, but I'm not sure if the plants actually need those. I really don't think the plant will even show symptoms without these micros.
You can also mix base solutions like 2M KNO3 which is about 202g/L, then use the mass concentration (0.202g/mL) to convert grams of solid to mL base solution. It's much easier to use a syringe to get 19mL of 2M KNO3 than a scale to measure 3.8g of solid KNO3, and it's the same amount. The molarity you use for each base solution is arbitrary but based on how much you think will dissolve into a liter bottle. I make a 1M solution of KH2PO4 while making 2M solutions of Ca(NO3)2, KNO3. I used to make 2M solution of MgSO4.7H2O, but that results in only 9.3mL of base solution (4.6g solid) and I use a 60mL syringe. Accuracy is improved by using a 1M solution and using twice as much base solution.
PS: Look for an application called "HydroBuddy" to help with the calculations and check out cropking for finding salts.
Wow thank your for the great and detailed info!! I know what i'll be doing today. Do you grow in soil/soil-less or hydro? When you take your grow indoors it seems like thats when the nutes and additives industry tries to take the uninformed too the cleaners for all their worth!! I appriciate the reccomendation of "hydrobuddy" and crop king, also mixing up a molar solution is a great tip! i love this stuff! merging my love of chemistry and cannabis, you can't get better than that!!
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I do DWC, and yeah.. look at all the shit people buy... People think it'd be too complicated to buy individual salts, then they go buying a thousand bottles of "additives" that all have the same salts in them, but in different ratios. (example, calmag is mostly calcium nitrate... gee...)
Notice how my mix only has 5 salts... So... if you buy advanced 3 part, calmag, bloom boost, you're already up to 5 overpriced items you could have skipped all together and kept it simpler by just getting the salts.
Here's a picture for you. (ignore the NPK ratios on the top. That's for the non-dissolved salts themselves, not the solutions diluted NPK)
Notice how my mix only has 5 salts... So... if you buy advanced 3 part, calmag, bloom boost, you're already up to 5 overpriced items you could have skipped all together and kept it simpler by just getting the salts.
Here's a picture for you.
(ignore the NPK ratios on the top. That's for the non-dissolved salts themselves, not the solutions diluted NPK)
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
If it says it is for acid loving plants, probably has sulfur in it to to help lower the pH. Might not be a good idea.
EDIT: Yeah, 3% sulfur and cottonseed meal to boot. Definitely will drop your soil pH to a range not advisable for cannabis.
Im thinking of going DWC on my next grow, im in soil right now under a 600W. I've been thinking about micronutrients, i noticed on your micro bottle you got iron, boron and i can't quite make out the last two. You said you havent noticed any defiencies? I found on the jr peters site they have something called MOST(mix of soluble traces) however i cant find whats in it exactly. They have a few things i didnt see in the Cropking catalog. They also have a good list of salts for decent prices(some are overpriced tho) however i dont have a retailer nearby so id get raped on shipping. Heres a link:http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Specialty-Nutrients/Buy-Specialty-Nutrients.html
I really like that hydrobuddy program, what range of NPK ppm do you shoot for in flowering? veg? I think i read lucas formula is somewhere around 100-200-200 i cant quite remember exactly though.
I really like that hydrobuddy program, what range of NPK ppm do you shoot for in flowering? veg? I think i read lucas formula is somewhere around 100-200-200 i cant quite remember exactly though.
I do DWC, and yeah.. look at all the shit people buy... People think it'd be too complicated to buy individual salts, then they go buying a thousand bottles of "additives" that all have the same salts in them, but in different ratios. (example, calmag is mostly calcium nitrate... gee...)
Notice how my mix only has 5 salts... So... if you buy advanced 3 part, calmag, bloom boost, you're already up to 5 overpriced items you could have skipped all together and kept it simpler by just getting the salts.
Here's a picture for you.
View attachment 2665656
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Micro is:
0.05M FeSO4.7H2O
0.001M NaB4O7.10H2O
0.04M MnSo4.somethingH2O
0.0001M Na2MoO4.2H2O
Yes, I've never noticed any visible symptoms when I didn't include B, Mn, Mo, or Zn. I'm not sure if it's because my tap water has always contained these or because pot doesn't truly need them. I have a theory that the reason it takes these in is so animals can get the nutrients from eating the plant. The other theory is that nutrient companies are trying to pass off toxic byproducts as "essential" nutrients. Really?? plants need copper?? lol.. i'd really like to know where the "copper deficiency" picture came from. How did they induce just a copper deficiency to prove it was copper deficiency that was really the problem? You can definitely get away with getting only the important salts first.
Iron on the other hand is absolutely essential and the plant will die without it. The symptoms look very similar to sulfur deficiency, and I just recently realized why. It's because both iron and sulfur are used to make the ferredoxin proteins used in the photosystems to channel electrons from the light process of photosynthesis. A deficiency in ferredoxin protein synthesis shows up in new growth as yellowing and retardation as the new chloroplasts can't make efficient use of chlorophyll.
Usually people have iron deficiency in hydro because pH is over 6, but in this case, you have to add some or they'll be nothing to be locked out!
0.05M FeSO4.7H2O
0.001M NaB4O7.10H2O
0.04M MnSo4.somethingH2O
0.0001M Na2MoO4.2H2O
Yes, I've never noticed any visible symptoms when I didn't include B, Mn, Mo, or Zn. I'm not sure if it's because my tap water has always contained these or because pot doesn't truly need them. I have a theory that the reason it takes these in is so animals can get the nutrients from eating the plant. The other theory is that nutrient companies are trying to pass off toxic byproducts as "essential" nutrients. Really?? plants need copper?? lol.. i'd really like to know where the "copper deficiency" picture came from. How did they induce just a copper deficiency to prove it was copper deficiency that was really the problem? You can definitely get away with getting only the important salts first.
Iron on the other hand is absolutely essential and the plant will die without it. The symptoms look very similar to sulfur deficiency, and I just recently realized why. It's because both iron and sulfur are used to make the ferredoxin proteins used in the photosystems to channel electrons from the light process of photosynthesis. A deficiency in ferredoxin protein synthesis shows up in new growth as yellowing and retardation as the new chloroplasts can't make efficient use of chlorophyll.
Usually people have iron deficiency in hydro because pH is over 6, but in this case, you have to add some or they'll be nothing to be locked out!
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I'd have to see the label but in general that is a decent NPK ratio from start to finish although I prefer a 3-1-2 ratio. Looks like it is an outdoor type food, not water soluble like Jack's. With experience and much pain, you'll soon find out how dangerous bloom foods can be to the welfare of your plants and especially production. All they do is induce premature leaf drop, and some folks are born to stay stupid, feeling its bloom foods that give ya da big buds.
I've gone to a 18-4-9 with micros, slow release food for cannabis (and most everything else). Works great and keeps the leaves green until harvest, which is the best you can do. Check out my posts.
UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Polyon distributed by Harrell's Plant Foods.