Air-Assisted Atomizer System Development and Inquiry

[indrhrvest]

I agree, does look nice. Not trying to be a dick but I am not sure that what works for lettuce, especially what accommodates their roots, might not work for what a lot of us are trying. If you could have an "independent" tester post a detailed grow journal, I think your product will be a lot more readily received. *hand is raised

Cannabis typically only needs 1 cubic foot for roots in a SOG. If you are going to use a system like this, SOG is going to be the best route for the largest yeild. You should be able to grow 32 plants per tray in a 32 cubic foot tray. If you want to grow trees, that's what the 64 cubic foot tray is for.

We will be looking for a professional grower in 8-12 weeks to conduct R&D. The grower will need to be liscensed and legal, must provide refrences ( buying dispensaries ) and must operate a CEA facility that would meet our requirements. We will be providing a system for free in return for the R&D.

 

[oxanaca]

Cannabis typically only needs 1 cubic foot for roots in a SOG. If you are going to use a system like this, SOG is going to be the best route for the largest yeild. You should be able to grow 32 plants per tray in a 32 cubic foot tray. If you want to grow trees, that's what the 64 cubic foot tray is for.

We will be looking for a professional grower in 8-12 weeks to conduct R&D. The grower will need to be liscensed and legal, must provide refrences ( buying dispensaries ) and must operate a CEA facility that would meet our requirements. We will be providing a system for free in return for the R&D.

interesting, my idea of SOG is very different from yours. i grow 4 plants per square foot.
ive always just thought of 1 plant per square foot as "regular sized plants".

 

[jamesvagabond]

Gonna be a little distracted. My property manager wants to up the rent a few hundred bucks so my lady and I need to move. I am glad I didn't get anything going so far. I am a firm advocate of intuitive procrastination.

Shitty thing is I setup my greenhouse so I have to take it all apart. Not abandoning the project.

 

[oxanaca]

i feel you dude there trying to sell the building im living in so theres weekly property showings, i need to move

 

[jamesvagabond]

i feel you dude there trying to sell the building im living in so theres weekly property showings, i need to move

Thanks man, good luck with that endeavor. We are just gonna stay, first time I have lived in a house for more than a couple months and not a skoolie so I want to make use of the space and stop freakin moving.

Just waiting for my money to stop hiding from me so I can start with a chamber and roll from there.

 

[jamesvagabond]

Will this compressor do the job? It is a silentaire 300A. Not a whole lot of HP but I wonder if I hook up an expansion tank to store air, how long it will take to charge it.Also whether the compressor can handle that?

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/susidr300air.html


Specifications: 239 Watt/2.73 Amp 1.0 Gallon Tank 1.08 CFM Free Air 114 PSI Op-Pressure Shipping Weight: 49 pounds Voltage: 110 V-60

All SuperSilent compressors are virtually "noiseless" and are totally automatic. Most units include a tank and line pressure gauge, line pressure regulator, moisture trap / filter / gauge, safety-valve, air intake filter and a carrying handle. Most models also available in 220V.

I found a deal for 250 obo so it sounds like a sweet option if I can scale it properly.

 

[oxanaca]

i dont think so at least not for more than a few nozzles. also its ment for airbrushing, so i doubt its built for constant day in day out use
from what you just posted it looks like it puts out 1.08 cFM when its not connected to a tank. that number should drop like a rock if the compressor is run under any pressure.
my shitty compressor(which hasent failed me in 3 months of constant use) puts out 1.4CFM at 40psi and 1.1cfm at 90psi

 

[Jimmy Luffnan]

Just a question regarding accumulator tank/pump...

If the tank is pre charged at 80-100psi behind the solenoid, the burst at the sprayers would be at 80-100psi as I understand.
But when it comes to pump sizing to feed the accumulator tank, the volume (flow rate) would be irrelevant would it not?
The only requirement of the pump would be to achieve the pressure required in the tank ie. 100psi ?
The flow rate would be dictated by the pressure and size (orifice) of the nozzles, not the pump itself as the tank does all the work?

To be forthcoming, when selecting a pump, the flow rate is not important, just the psi it can produce when using an accumulator?
Obviously pump brand reliability etc. is a factor

Am I on the right track here?

Cheers Jimmy.

 

[Atomizer]

As long as the pump can outrun the tank drawdown time, the flowrate doesnt matter too much (within reason). As an extreme example, you could charge a 50gal accumulator from 60-80psi using a tiny aquatec 6800 although it would take a while to do it...about 1hr 50 minutes. Sounds bad, but if the tank runs 10x 1gph nozzles on 1 second/3 minute timing the pump would only run once every 8 days.
If the pump runs for extended periods, its best to check the pump spec for the temperature rise time just to make sure it wont overheat.

 

[Jimmy Luffnan]

Thanks Atomiser! (Big fan of your work
That's what I thought might be the case.
So in theory, It might be better to use a pump that has a higher flow rate, but can still produce 100 PSI for faster fill rates of the accumulator as opposed to a smaller flow rate like the Aquatec 6800?
Of course without the accumulator, then high psi, low flow would be ideal.... but not really the 'proper' TAG cycles

Im sorry if this comes off as a mini highjack jamesvagabond, but since you are asking questions for a build, these answers from the pro's probably help

The other question I wonder, and have never really found a definitive answer to is how do you pro's change out your nutrients?
Do you drain the accumulator?
Flush the accumulator every nute change?
Do some magical blend through?

Seems the accumulator holds X amount of nutrient, how does it work?

Cheers Jimmy.

 

[Atomizer]

Same system but without the accumulator would need a pump that could do at least 10gph @ 60-80psi, which rules out the 6800.
As for changing nutes, you can gear the change to coincide with an empty tank (minimum pressure) or at half tank or less just blend it in .
If your accumulator is big enough to run for months then you`re probably filthy rich and can afford to dump the nutes on the veggie garden

 

[Jimmy Luffnan]

Thanks for that Atomizer
Ive just always wondered that with HP and accumulators...
Im used to RDWC, fresh nute change every week depending on EC fluctuation (I dont use burn and back off method like most) *shakes head*
Because the mix of nutes is X EC and X PH... it would stay like this from res to nozzle.
But when the plants show they require more nutrients, the 'blend in' would require some kind of balancing act where the PH would be managable (5.8 last nute change, 5.8 this change) but the EC increase when it went from the fresh res to the existing nutrient in the accumulator would mix and create X EC (Mixture of EC from both nutrients)

That is the part of the blend I dont get, maybe just practice ^^

I would see the most controllable approach would be to calculate usage, mix X amount, and when it is timed to run out close to nute changeout:
*Turn off pump and purge accumulator tank as empty as possible via relief valve
*Open 3 way bypass valve (situated after accumulator but before solenoid)
*Run pump with fresh water through accumulator and out bypass valve *optional flush*
*Run pump with fresh nutrient until comes out bypass, close bypass and re pressurise accumulator tank

Then the only 'old nutrient' is in the existing lines past the solenoid, so minimal mixing.

Thats how I would do it I think

Cheers Jimmy.

 

[Atomizer]

Its not an issue with dtw as the feed res ph/ec wont alter cos nothing is coming back to mess with the feed res.. If you dont want to run pure dtw, you can always direct the runoff into a seperate container and run that the next day. It`ll be different to a fresh batch but still consistant. If the veg nute in the accumulator was EC: 1.0 PH: 5.8 and you mix bloom nutes to EC1.0, PH: 5.8, the mix wont alter apart from the chemical make up. As the nutes in the tank are unused, you`ll know exactly whats in there before you add the new stuff, eg: a pure veg nute.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I found another source of nozzles. These are wide angle round sprayers with a 90 deg angle and a needle flow rate control valve that comes standard, with a 0-24gph flow range. They are 303SS and are priced at 172, which is considerably cheaper than BETE or iSpray, which offer the needle valve at an additional cost. I am getting more specifics from the tech department today. They also have a no drip version which I am finding out the price on. Just got it, 322.00 for no-drips. I am finding out more on them, I don't want to pay that much but if it removes the need for other add-ons like solenoids and etc then I'd like to compare the total prices

 

[jamesvagabond]

I see, the no-drip is all mechanical, so it does not need electricity to operate. It is essentially the same nozzle with a built in check valve. Sounds like I can go cheaper with adding one myself.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I found the catch, it's droplet range is 100-200 microns. Can I adjust this through increasing air pressure?

 

[oxanaca]

I found another source of nozzles. These are wide angle round sprayers with a 90 deg angle and a needle flow rate control valve that comes standard, with a 0-24gph flow range. They are 303SS and are priced at 172, which is considerably cheaper than BETE or iSpray, which offer the needle valve at an additional cost. I am getting more specifics from the tech department today. They also have a no drip version which I am finding out the price on. Just got it, 322.00 for no-drips. I am finding out more on them, I don't want to pay that much but if it removes the need for other add-ons like solenoids and etc then I'd like to compare the total prices

i dont think a anti drip valve will help seeing how your going to have a solenoid directly on both water and air input,
rather than a needle valve why not just put a JG ball valve before your solenoids, if you need it?
i think a stainless nozzle is goofy, i ran my brass delavan nozzles and adapters for 4 months, most of the time i was in the 1.0-2.4 EC range, i saw no significant corrosian.

i also never had a nozzle clog. you should have seen my resevoir, it was a real scuzz bucket. i only cleaned it once. i think HPA is more clog prone as the orfices are smaller

when i get new nozzles to test i will purchase BETE internal mix NI/brass flat fan nozzles. there only $47 i can get 3.5X more nozzles than you and i get the BETE name

 

[Atomizer]

A solenoid would be a lot cheaper than paying $150 extra for a nozzle that didnt need one

 

[jamesvagabond]

Atomizer, can I use those nozzles that normally output 100-200 micron droplets, by adjusting pressure and flow to reach 40-80 mic range?

 

[Atomizer]

At $172 a piece, i`d recommend grilling the tech department, they should be able to tell you the approximate droplet size range versus air/water pressure. Pressure fed AA`s do have a wide adjustment range but there are still limits, or they`d sell one nozzle that can do everything