DMT... aliens or god? What is the 'presence'
- Thread starter ineverveg
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Science tells us little about perception. If I see the walls as undulating energy who are you to say they're not. We take a chemical which is very similar to one of our neurotransmitters and we see the world in an entirely different way. So you say.. no, the world isn't like that. I say, yes the world is, I saw it. The fact that you didn't see it does not invalidate my experience. There is a fucking huge gap between perception and reality. I don't see where you can claim that your perception is the one true one.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
We've already gone over the fact that a religious/spiritual/transcendent/mystical experience can be easily invoked by stimulating the brain in certain ways. Magnets and chemicals are a few of those methods.
The people who have religious experiences wish to believe they are divine experiences, instead of trying to figure out what they actually are. But what's worse is the continual circle jerk of reinforcing each others faulty rationale, and mystic thinking.
"Don't worry bro, I got your back against these godless atheists no matter how fucking stupid you and your ideas are!"
Even if every single fucking person who ever took DMT felt a presence, which they don't, it still wouldn't mean the presence was real. Our brains are pretty much all the same, so it makes sense that multiple people doing the same chemical, would elicit similar responses. Maybe not exactly the same, but similar.
The people who have religious experiences wish to believe they are divine experiences, instead of trying to figure out what they actually are. But what's worse is the continual circle jerk of reinforcing each others faulty rationale, and mystic thinking.
"Don't worry bro, I got your back against these godless atheists no matter how fucking stupid you and your ideas are!"
Even if every single fucking person who ever took DMT felt a presence, which they don't, it still wouldn't mean the presence was real. Our brains are pretty much all the same, so it makes sense that multiple people doing the same chemical, would elicit similar responses. Maybe not exactly the same, but similar.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. - Philip K. Dick
or in this case,
Reality is that which, when you come down off of DMT, doesn't go away. - Beefbisquit
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Hallucinated fractals don't exist when you come down. If someone drew a real fractal, or made on on a computer, it would still exist regardless of being high.
This is common sense stuff.
Things that exist, exist.
Things that are imaginary, do not exist.
And how is it that I see something imaginary? So, I draw a picture of what I see. I show it to someone else who took DMT and they say.. Yep. looks just like that.
So now we both agree with what an imaginary thing looks like eh? How the fuck is that.
A unicorn is imaginary. A fractal is real. It has a mathematical basis, in this case it is a member of the Julia Set. If it's so fucking imaginary why does it conform to a mathematical equation?
Democracy... Does it exist? Show me. Draw me a picture. Put it in a bottle and mail it to me. Guess it's fucking imaginary.
It seems absurd that my imaginations would be modeled on mathematical equations. Perhaps people who did DMT in the 60's didn't see fractals and saw unicorns instead.
So now we both agree with what an imaginary thing looks like eh? How the fuck is that.
A unicorn is imaginary. A fractal is real. It has a mathematical basis, in this case it is a member of the Julia Set. If it's so fucking imaginary why does it conform to a mathematical equation?
Democracy... Does it exist? Show me. Draw me a picture. Put it in a bottle and mail it to me. Guess it's fucking imaginary.
It seems absurd that my imaginations would be modeled on mathematical equations. Perhaps people who did DMT in the 60's didn't see fractals and saw unicorns instead.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
You have a brain, and your friend has a brain, and you both took the same drug, and are surprised when the brain produces similar visual hallucinations? You both have the same type of eyes too - that use the same cells to see. And both of your brains visual centers are located in the same areas, and process things very similarly. There are enough similarities in the body, to predict some similarities in the experience.
I've eaten 15-20g of mushrooms before and thought I was in an oil painting. It looked like I was in a painting, and I've heard other people say they've had similar experiences; does that mean the world is really a giant oil painting? No! It's just a fucking drug FFS.
Democracy is a fucking concept, or an idea. That's like saying 'laws don't exist because I've never held a law in my hand', it's a non-sequitur.
What everyone is saying, is that you have an IMAGINATION, and that IMAGINATION gets hyper stimulated on DMT. Complex geometric patterns are pretty common to see on any hallucinogen, none of that is evidence of meeting an intelligence.
"Exactly why it's not real. It's a fantasy, that's the point. I've tripped many times, on many hallucinogens, DMT is just one of the rainbow."
I would've agreed with this having not tried DMT, its rational thinking. But simply put, you're the one talking out of your ass on this one.
DMT is something much more meaningful than logic seems to let us believe. It is not comparable to anything, you think you know hallucinogens without experiencing DMT? Give me a break.
When thousands of people all over the world report the same thing, it makes you atleast think twice about something. When you experience the same thing so brutally, its hard to dismiss.
Atleast be open to life not being as clean cut as your ego wants it to be and accept that there might be more going on than you wish to perceive or accept.
I would've agreed with this having not tried DMT, its rational thinking. But simply put, you're the one talking out of your ass on this one.
DMT is something much more meaningful than logic seems to let us believe. It is not comparable to anything, you think you know hallucinogens without experiencing DMT? Give me a break.
When thousands of people all over the world report the same thing, it makes you atleast think twice about something. When you experience the same thing so brutally, its hard to dismiss.
Atleast be open to life not being as clean cut as your ego wants it to be and accept that there might be more going on than you wish to perceive or accept.
Democracy is a fucking concept, or an idea. That's like saying 'laws don't exist because I've never held a law in my hand', it's a non-sequitur.
I see. So you are saying things can exist without physical form. A law exists even though it has no physical form for example and can't be seen.
Since you can see hyperspace it must be even more real than a law.
And mushrooms don't compare to DMT btw.
I see. So you are saying things can exist without physical form. A law exists even though it has no physical form for example and can't be seen.
Since you can see hyperspace it must be even more real than a law.
And mushrooms don't compare to DMT btw.
Skuxx
Well-Known Member
If you eat enough mushrooms you'll have a trip just as insane as any amount of DMT can produce. I've done the maximum dose possible for ME, for both substances... you lose consciousness completely at a certain point. And, pure psilocybin is probably just as strong as pure DMT... IDK personally, because I've never had pure psilocybin... but look:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_dose.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_dose.shtml
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Hehe, I know I've done probably closer to 75mg of Psilocybin at once.
My fucking face hurt so bad the next day, all the muscles were pulled from non stop smiling.
Mr.Vega
Well-Known Member
Ur brain can manifest all kinds of crazy shit if ur hi enuf.....all it is is seeds that are already in ur brain...a combination of a little imagination and a mind twisting drug...and boom.....unreal shit that seems real....its not real tho I promise....stay up for abt 5-6 days or more on coke crack or meth....then tell me what kinda hallucinations and beings ur seeing.....ive seen demons in the room w me....shadowy figures chasing each other around the room....tugging at my shirt from behind.....ok everyone on dmt sees beings..or talks to them or whatever...well everyone who does meth n stays up for days sees shadow ppl. ..google it...its a real phenomenon. ....all it is is how our brains are reacting to the drugs we are taking and the mental state we are in....but....to b honest part of me believes that if u take enuf dope it opens up parts of ur brain u cant normally access and it makes u aware of the spirit/unseen world...another demension if u will....its all very deep stuff and nobody will ever have the answer.....that satan dude aloster crowely (spelling) ...wrote a book he says he got from communicating w spirits while in drug induced states...he drew a pic of the spirit/demon/being he says became present to him and the motherfucker looks just like an alien...and this was like early 1900s before all these pics of aliens were floating around...same head...same eyes.....shape....alll that....google it its pretty wild shit.....ive devoted hours of reseach taking many diff avenues of study trying to figure out whats what.....its a never ending hole.
Mr.Vega
Well-Known Member
We used to take a quarter pound of shrooms...and abt two cups of water n put in in a pot...boil n smash boil n smash till it was a thick black consentrated juice....strained it n it would make abt four shot glasses full of trip juice......idk how much of a dose it was but it was enuf to be too much...ha
Staying up on meth = Sleep deprivation.. That sounds more like drug induced psychosis/sleep deprivation.. Obviously nothing but your imagination playing tricks because your brain and body are so tired.
DMT cannot be compared to this at all, its pretty redundant. Have you smoked DMT?
DMT cannot be compared to this at all, its pretty redundant. Have you smoked DMT?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Mr.Vega
Well-Known Member
would dmt not b a drug induced psychcosis....or do actually think its linking u to another realm?.....ha....wow
Mad Hamish
Well-Known Member
http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/supernatural.php
Great book for anybody interested in the topics of art, consciousness and psychedelics... Poses some really well thought out hypotheses, of particular interest to this thread the parts about DNA and DMT. Draws zero conclusions himself leaves that up to you.
Great book for anybody interested in the topics of art, consciousness and psychedelics... Poses some really well thought out hypotheses, of particular interest to this thread the parts about DNA and DMT. Draws zero conclusions himself leaves that up to you.