So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

[st0wandgrow]

I have access to several miles of beach, should i dry it then mix it in with the super soil or just add a certain amount?

Rinse it well (salt) first, then dry it, use a mortar and pestle to grind it up, then add it to your soil mix.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

I have access to several miles of beach, should i dry it then mix it in with the super soil or just add a certain amount?

I am all for this. This thread has put an emphasis on local being best.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

I wanted to support Rrog's idea to discuss Teaming with Microbes. I will be rereading and paraphrasing the book at a slower pace as to allow for nice discussions to be posted here at a pace which will foster dialogue and learning. I know it's Rrog's thread and he runs the show but I ask that the exchange of info and any thoughts be sincere and with the intent to learn and be of value. This is for the noob and expert alike. Rrog is an invaluable source of info and we should respect that and be very happy we have him to learn from.

IMO to reach and impress anything upon those not familiar with the true living organic soil/plant "life web" we must impart the simple fact that there exists a symbiotic relationship between the microorganisms and the plants which reside in the soil alike. It is also an important fact that true living soil is always an active and moving soil. It is full of life. This life consists of both beneficial and harmful microorganisms, the plant, and more.

It is a simple fact that using anything from a bottle effects the relationship between the microorganisms and the plants. One must understand that the roots of the plants feed the beneficial microrganisms who in turn feed the roots and protect the roots and so on. The relationship is so beneficial to both in that they share things and thrive in sharing. It is as simple as this. If you "feed" the plant fertilizers from a bottle, either organic or not, you are fucking up the relationship between the beneficial bacterial and the plant. The plant will be force fed nutes at a pace the plant does not want them, while the beneficial microorganisms are no longer "needed" by the plants for food purposes and are simply put "cut off". This "cutting off" causes the beneficial numbers to wither while the harmful microorganisms proliferate at a pace that far exceeds the growth of any of the good guys.

We need to keep the "Biology of our soil" as healthy as we can. The plants call for certain things ie. nutes, fungus, etc., and they come to the plant as long as the food soil web is running in a healthy manner. If it is not then the chase for the fix is on.

I think what must also be pointed out and emphasized is also the fact that what we are going to discuss has been scientifically supported at the highest of levels. I give this credit to Dr. Elaine Ingham, the source on soil microbiology, and many others.

This covers some ideas in the Forward and the Preface.

 

[Rrog]

I'm just a messenger for the use of proper soil. I didn't invent any of this.

Sounds good on the Teaming With Microbes talk! This is a fun thing. By the way, Coot just harvested a known cultivar to him and this grow there was a weekly application of either of these enzyme teas:

Diastatic Malt Tea-

Diastatic Malt is powder very commonly used in brewing and baking, it offers the some of the same enzyme potential.

Order it online - "malted barley flour" a.k.a. diastatic malt powder for pretty cheap. Amazon has lots.

1 TBS/gal application rate.

1TBS/gal once a week, just mix and go ( or freeze as Ice Cubes...). No need to soak to activate.

Barley Sprout Tea:

More complicated, and also likely to yield added benefits over the one above.

2 tablespoons of Barley seeds (1 oz.)
Soak for 12 hours. Drain that water and throw away. It’s full of growth inhibitors.
Add 1/2 gallon of fresh water to the sprouts for the 48 hour soak.
Strain and use 1 cup of this to 1 gallon of water.

Coot says this batch was the dankest he's had of that cultivar. He's really stoked. Gas confirms. This is a good thing apparently.

 

[Someacdude]

Awesome fellas, keepem coming,im glued to the thread.

Im going to get some kelp tomorrow and see whats up.

Thanks again

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

Nice to hear. Gas does not lie.

I think something that is really cool is the rhizosphere. For those who are new to this, the rhizosphere is the area between the root and the micro-organisms and the area surrounding it. People should realize that the plant uses much of the energy it reaps from photosynthesis to produce chemicals which are secreted through it's roots. The roots secrete these exudates in the form of carbs and proteins that attract the benes to come and work their magic. The constant cycle of life and death of these good, and bad, benes are what helps to keep the plants healthy or not. The big picture is that the plant controls this web if things are running well. The plant even controls the numbers and kinds of benes that are attracted to it's rhizosphere. "The soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle by providing exudates".

 

[Someacdude]

Nice to hear. Gas does not lie.

I think something that is really cool is the rhizosphere. For those who are new to this, the rhizosphere is the area between the root and the micro-organisms and the area surrounding it. People should realize that the plant uses much of the energy it reaps from photosynthesis to produce chemicals which are secreted through it's roots. The roots secrete these exudates in the form of carbs and proteins that attract the benes to come and work their magic. The constant cycle of life and death of these good, and bad, benes are what helps to keep the plants healthy or not. The big picture is that the plant controls this web if things are running well. The plant even controls the numbers and kinds of benes that are attracted to it's rhizosphere. "The soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle by providing exudates".

Seems like you would have stronger healthier plants.

 

[Rrog]

We focus a lot on the feeding of a plant, but the immune system response from these soil amendments can't be overlooked.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

We focus a lot on the feeding of a plant, but the immune system response from these soil amendments can't be overlooked.

I am correct in saying that the plant signals these immune system responses via the exudates or do the benes do it without the signals?

 

[Rrog]

Well it's a few things. Obviously we have a few hundred billion microbes in and on the plant. Many of these have first response / first line of defense capacity. Vermicompost has been lab-proven to directly and significantly increase the pest control / immune response of not only the rhizosphere, but the phyllosphere as well.

When plants or animals have no natural microbe in the background the immune system can go into a hibernation mode. When a contagion arrives, the immune system wakes up and starts countermeasures. The problem is by the time the plant get's it's shit together, the plant may be 1/2 eaten or 1/2 contaminated with disease. So there are some microbes and plant compounds that can keep this immune response in the plant ON at all times, so when a creepy baddie comes into the grow, all systems are on and ready. The response time is immediate and you've read some of the testimonials as to the effectiveness.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

Very much like how our immune system uses it's white blood cells with anitbody production and the like. Perhaps like a histamine response also. The healthier the population of wbc the healthier the person.

I have a water question for everyone. I am currently running my final group of plants through flowering where the medium used was 1/3 Coast of Maine Bar Harbor blend, 1/3 larger perlite, 1/3 ecw. Nothing else. Here is a link for the Bar Harbor blend.

http://www.coastofmaine.com/soils-barharbor.shtml

I have been using RO water. 2 ppm and ph 5.2ish. I feed with aact. I have my first homemade "supersoil" mixes cooking for 4-6 more weeks. I am questioning if I should continue to water with the RO water because I am seeing signs of ph lockout in many leaves. My other water option is well water with a ph of 6.5ish and ppm of 60-80 depending on the season. My well water does have a water softener that we never fill with salt ever. I think my current mix can't handle the RO ph. Any thoughts?

 

[Rrog]

I don't see any ingredient list there, but I bet it's good stuff. Try some hard well water (before the softener). I've run 2 generation ROLS all with well water. My only potential problem with well water is after 5-6 generations. By then it might be a problem. Could also give a shot of CalMag. Not harm in that either.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

My list will not make you happy Rrog. I bought and mixed it over a month ago. It's been cooking a month on its way to 2 months. It's the full on Rev's mix. I plan to run the mix without the spikes and such. Does the water softener system still alter the well water without using salt?

• 1cft of Happy Frog
  1 cft of Coast of Maine Bar Harbor blend
  2cft of coco
  2cft of perlite (large and small)
  1cft of EWC
  1cft of Maine Coast Lobster Compost
  
  Amendments are:
  
  12 cups of Happy Frog 5-5-5
  4 cups of greensand
  6 cups of oyster shells
  4 cups of dolomite powder
  14 cups of prilled dolomite
  2 cups of blood meal
  2 cups of rock phosphate
  4 cups of gypsum
  4 cups of kelp meal
  32 cups of cow manure
  2 cups of high N bat guano
  4 cups of feather meal
  8 cups of bone meal
  4 cups of Happy Frog bulb fertilizer
  2 cups of excellerite
  2 cups of azomite
  4 cups of humic acid
  4 cups of alfalfa meal
  8 cups of organic rice
  
  ​
  
  
  
  

 

[Rrog]

Jeepers crispies- well you seem to have a good assortment of liming agents. The recipe I like has 1/2 Cup of liming agents per cubic foot. You have 3.5 Cups per cubic foot. Different release rates on some of these liming components. I dunno- I'm not able to calculate proper Ca and Mg ratios. The ROLS recipe I use us from Gas's old thread.

 

[buckaroo bonzai]

I made it Rrog. Life changing info here. I learned so much. I now understand things so much better. I can't express my gratitude to you for this thread. I will check in here daily and begin to contribute what I can, most likely coming from my questions. I am going to begin to reread my Teaming with Microbes tonight. I am suggesting this in my Noob thread. Can you cover the very basics of brix? Thanks again. You are a jedi. I need to go find some of Coot's stuff now.

. We have been very blessed to receive confirmation from some amazing people who are innovators in the field - the field of sustainable an earth friendly practices. . The Emerald Cup is pleased to announce that Jeff Lowenfels, the author of 'Teaming with Microbes' will be giving a one hour lecture AND be demonstrating the making of compost teas throughout the event.

https://www.facebook.com/TheEmeraldCup

 

[st0wandgrow]

Very much like how our immune system uses it's white blood cells with anitbody production and the like. Perhaps like a histamine response also. The healthier the population of wbc the healthier the person.

I have a water question for everyone. I am currently running my final group of plants through flowering where the medium used was 1/3 Coast of Maine Bar Harbor blend, 1/3 larger perlite, 1/3 ecw. Nothing else. Here is a link for the Bar Harbor blend.

http://www.coastofmaine.com/soils-barharbor.shtml

I have been using RO water. 2 ppm and ph 5.2ish. I feed with aact. I have my first homemade "supersoil" mixes cooking for 4-6 more weeks. I am questioning if I should continue to water with the RO water because I am seeing signs of ph lockout in many leaves. My other water option is well water with a ph of 6.5ish and ppm of 60-80 depending on the season. My well water does have a water softener that we never fill with salt ever. I think my current mix can't handle the RO ph. Any thoughts?

I went with a single stage RO unit for a couple reasons. I didn't like the idea of wasting so much water like the traditional reservoir units do, and I didn't want something so efficient that it was removing all of the dissolved solids. The one I have is *supposed* to remove 93% of contaminants, and has a catalytic carbon filter that is supposed to remove chlorine/chloramine .... which was my main concern.

Seemed like a good compromise, and so far I'm happy with it. I do wonder about the need for a filtration system though. I've always assumed that the micro-herd would not tolerate chlorine/chloramine well, but I remember Coot saying one time that he just uses tap water. That alone made me question the necessity of a RO unit. I think if you're working with a really well amended soil that has been through a run or two, and a great source of compost, the benes can tolerate a lot of variables in a very wide ph range.

 

[Rrog]

That's a GREAT idea Stowe! I need to look into this

 

[Someacdude]

My list will not make you happy Rrog. I bought and mixed it over a month ago. It's been cooking a month on its way to 2 months. It's the full on Rev's mix. I plan to run the mix without the spikes and such. Does the water softener system still alter the well water without using salt?

• 1cft of Happy Frog
  1 cft of Coast of Maine Bar Harbor blend
  2cft of coco
  2cft of perlite (large and small)
  1cft of EWC
  1cft of Maine Coast Lobster Compost
  
  Amendments are:
  
  12 cups of Happy Frog 5-5-5
  4 cups of greensand
  6 cups of oyster shells
  4 cups of dolomite powder
  14 cups of prilled dolomite
  2 cups of blood meal
  2 cups of rock phosphate
  4 cups of gypsum
  4 cups of kelp meal
  32 cups of cow manure
  2 cups of high N bat guano
  4 cups of feather meal
  8 cups of bone meal
  4 cups of Happy Frog bulb fertilizer
  2 cups of excellerite
  2 cups of azomite
  4 cups of humic acid
  4 cups of alfalfa meal
  8 cups of organic rice
  
  ​
  
  

And now im even more lost, i began buying everything to make the super soil, but now i want to try something more like this.
If i can list everything i already have can anyone tell me what to add?
I really hate to ask but im really new to this, when i was a kid and we wanted anything to really grow, we would go across the way to an OOOOLLLLDDDDDD barn and take a few wheel barrel loads from the old cow pens, black as coal and never burned anything,man i miss those days.

 

[Someacdude]

Very much like how our immune system uses it's white blood cells with anitbody production and the like. Perhaps like a histamine response also. The healthier the population of wbc the healthier the person.

I have a water question for everyone. I am currently running my final group of plants through flowering where the medium used was 1/3 Coast of Maine Bar Harbor blend, 1/3 larger perlite, 1/3 ecw. Nothing else. Here is a link for the Bar Harbor blend.

http://www.coastofmaine.com/soils-barharbor.shtml

I have been using RO water. 2 ppm and ph 5.2ish. I feed with aact. I have my first homemade "supersoil" mixes cooking for 4-6 more weeks. I am questioning if I should continue to water with the RO water because I am seeing signs of ph lockout in many leaves. My other water option is well water with a ph of 6.5ish and ppm of 60-80 depending on the season. My well water does have a water softener that we never fill with salt ever. I think my current mix can't handle the RO ph. Any thoughts?

I know water pretty well, i would just use straight well water and change the ph with vinegar if it was me, i wouldnt use anything that ran through that softner.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

So does the softener without the salt step alter the water?

Rrog...it did seem like a lot of prilled dolomite. That is why I am going to cook this a long time.