Earth Gains A Record Amount Of Sea Ice In 2013

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
that site is run by noted climate denier ole humlum, you fucking dullard.

goddamn you are stupid.
Nothing wrong with Ole Humlum. he isnt a shill. He has his theorys and as such shouldnt be dismissed.
Like I said He isnt a shill for big oil or energy interests.

An overwhelming majority of his peers disagree with him. But at least he seems legit. Unlike the stupid bullshit Emo boy posted in the OP
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with Ole Humlum. he isnt a shill. He has his theorys and as such shouldnt be dismissed.
Like I said He isnt a shill for big oil or energy interests.

An overwhelming majority of his peers disagree with him. But at least he seems legit. Unlike the stupid bullshit Emo boy posted in the OP
why would ole humlum put out fake, easily debunked graphs unless he is trying to pull the wool over?
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
why would ole humlum put out fake, easily debunked graphs unless he is trying to pull the wool over?
Are the graphs fake?
I did a cursory run thru of his theorys which boils down to
temperature changes the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. His work is being reviewed and many have found fault with his research and conclusions. All part of the normal give and take of science.

The problem you have with Climate change deniers is the fact that almost all of them are paid by big energy and oil interests and they dont give a fuck about the truth. Ole Humlum although probably wrong is an honest guy.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
here are what the graphs that KKKynes posted earlier actually look like:

CO2 levels:



temps (with the retarded and misleading CO2 graph attached below)



http://denierlist.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/dr-ole-humlum/

kynes is a fucking joke who will lie to your face and tell you it's raining, but he will take 74 paragraphs to do it so that you're so buried in bullshit that you think it's snowing mid sized automobiles.
your name and Shame blog citation provides no sourcing for their alterations of the graphs, nor for their inexplicable disregard for the geologic evidence of long term glacial advances and retreats over history, well beyond 1979, the New Normal, which happens t coincide with a global cold spell which prompted claims of a new ice age.

i am not lying, i am providing citation for my own personal belief that the climate has in fact been warming fairly steadily (with several minor dips) for the last 11000 years, as evidenced by the fact that canada is not under 500 feet of ice from the bay of fundy to vancouver.

or do you propose that i am lying about that too, and all the "legends" of people living in canada are just a trick to conceal the Troof?
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
ORLY?

cuz i see dispute over ONE of his theories, regarding cloud cover forcing climactic variation, but he is hardly discredited.
if perfection in science were possible there would be no need for peer review or even for repeatability in testing.
Quotes by Roy Spencer

Climate MythWhat the Science Says
"the warming trend over the Northern Hemisphere, where virtually all of the thermometer data exist, is a function of population density at the thermometer site."
30 March 2012 (Source)
Urban and rural regions show the same warming trend.
"there are benefits to more CO2 in the air, and probably to a little bit of warming"
22 March 2012 (Source)
Negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health & environment far outweigh any positives.
"we're talking about forestalling maybe hundredths of a degree, a few hundredths of a degree per decade of warming just based on the US shutting down half of its economy."
22 March 2012 (Source)
If every nation agrees to limit CO2 emissions, we can achieve significant cuts on a global scale.
"there's no way to get rid of the CO2"
22 March 2012 (Source)
Scientific studies have determined that current technology is sufficient to reduce greenhouse gas emissions enough to avoid dangerous climate change.
"I think...we may see very little warming in the future"
22 March 2012 (Source)
Net positive feedback is confirmed by many different lines of evidence.
"I think that most of the warming we've seen could well be natural"
22 March 2012 (Source)
Multiple sets of independent observations find a human fingerprint on climate change.
"for some reason it stopped warming in the last 10 years, which is one of those dirty little secrets of global warming science"
22 March 2012 (Source)
Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.
"The cost [of CO2 limits] in terms of human suffering, however, will be immense. "
7 March 2012 (Source)
Those who contribute the least greenhouse gases will be most impacted by climate change.
"Even if we could substantially reduce U.S. CO2 emissions in the next 20 years, which barring some new technology is virtually impossible, the resulting (theoretically-computed) impact on U.S or global temperatures would be unmeasurable….hundredths of a degree C at best. "
7 March 2012 (Source)
If every nation agrees to limit CO2 emissions, we can achieve significant cuts on a global scale.
"...ill-conceived energy policies that hurt economic growth kill poor people."
7 March 2012 (Source)
Those who contribute the least greenhouse gases will be most impacted by climate change.
"While any single month’s drop in global temperatures cannot be blamed on climate change, it is still the kind of behavior we expect to see more often in a cooling world"
3 November 2011 (Source)
The last decade 2000-2009 was the hottest on record.
"the troposphere is ignoring your SUV"
30 October 2011 (Source)
The last decade 2000-2009 was the hottest on record.
"in Blunder I address what other scientists should have the courage to admit: that maybe putting more CO2 in the atmosphere is a good thing. "
20 April 2010 (Source)
Negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health & environment far outweigh any positives.
"When properly interpreted, our satellite observations actually reveal that the system is quite IN-sensitive. And an insensitive climate system means that nature does not really care whether you travel by jet, or how many hamburgers or steaks you eat."
20 April 2010 (Source)
Net positive feedback is confirmed by many different lines of evidence.
"what they have ignored is the potential for the climate system to cause its own climate change. Climate change is simply what the system does, owing to its complex, dynamic, chaotic internal behavior."
20 April 2010 (Source)
Internal variability can only account for small amounts of warming and cooling over periods of decades, and scientific studies have consistently shown that it cannot account for the global warming over the past century.
"warming in recent decades is mostly due to a natural cycle in the climate system — not to an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide from fossil fuel burning."
20 April 2010 (Source)
No known natural forcing fits the fingerprints of observed warming except anthropogenic greenhouse gases.
"The supposed explanation that global warming is due to increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide from our burning of fossil fuels turns out to be based upon little more than circumstantial evidence."
20 April 2010 (Source)
Multiple sets of independent observations find a human fingerprint on climate change.
"Are we really sure that ALL of the atmospheric increase in CO2 is from humanity’s emissions? After all, the natural sources and sinks of CO2 are about 20 times the anthropogenic source, so all it would take is a small imbalance in the natural flows to rival the anthropogenic source. "
11 May 2009 (Source)
The natural cycle adds and removes CO2 to keep a balance; humans add extra CO2 without removing any.
"climate modelers...mistakenly conclude that cloud feedbacks in the climate system are positive when in fact the evidence, when more critically examined, suggests they are negative."
27 December 2008 (Source)
Evidence is building that net cloud feedback is likely positive and unlikely to be strongly negative.
"It is a little known fact that the extra carbon dioxide (and methane, an especially potent greenhouse gas) emitted by joggers accounts for close to 10% of the current Global Warming problem."
20 June 2005 (Source)
By breathing out, we are simply returning to the air the same CO2 that was there to begin with.

[h=3]Favourite climate myths by Roy Spencer[/h]Below are many of the climate myths used by Roy Spencer plus how often each myth has been used.
Climate myths by SpencerWhat the Science SaysUsage
"Roy Spencer finds negative feedback"Spencer's model is too simple, excluding important factors like ocean dynamics and treats cloud feedbacks as forcings.6
"Climate sensitivity is low"Net positive feedback is confirmed by many different lines of evidence.4
"It's cooling"The last decade 2000-2009 was the hottest on record.3
"It's a natural cycle"No known natural forcing fits the fingerprints of observed warming except anthropogenic greenhouse gases.2
"It's freaking cold!"A local cold day has nothing to do with the long-term trend of increasing global temperatures.1
"2009-2010 winter saw record cold spells"A cold day in Chicago in winter has nothing to do with the trend of global warming.1
"It's internal variability"Internal variability can only account for small amounts of warming and cooling over periods of decades, and scientific studies have consistently shown that it cannot account for the global warming over the past century.
1
"IPCC is alarmist"Numerous papers have documented how IPCC predictions are more likely to underestimate the climate response.
1
"CO2 limits will harm the economy"The benefits of a price on carbon outweigh the costs several times over.
1
"CO2 limits will hurt the poor"Those who contribute the least greenhouse gases will be most impacted by climate change.
1
"Al Gore got it wrong"Al Gore book is quite accurate, and far more accurate than contrarian books.1
"Global warming stopped in 1998,1995, 2002,2007, 2010, ????"Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.
1
"CO2 is plant food"The effects of enhanced CO2 on terrestrial plants are variable and complex and dependent on numerous factors
1
"CO2 is not the only driver of climate"Theory, models and direct measurement confirm CO2 is currently the main driver of climate change.1
"Ocean acidification isn't serious"Ocean acidification threatens entire marine food chains.1
"It's El Niño"El Nino has no trend and so is not responsible for the trend of global warming.1
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Roy_Spencer_arg.htm
 

silasraven

Well-Known Member
obama will drive of the use of paper. the trees will be gone. the price of chocolate is going up. obama is destroying agriculture in this nation. never stop planting trees!!!!
 

pSi007

Active Member
I have never seen California as HOT as it`s been in the last 10 years. I have lived here my entire life, don`t tell me I`m wrong. There has been more record heat days and more tree-fires than any time in recorded history in California. It`s bad.. Newtons law of thermal dynamics states that some areas can transfer heat/cold from one area to another. While Colorado is flooding, California is burning.

Violent weather which can destroy cities, like that of Sandi (New Jersey), and Katrina (New Orleans) are taking energy away from the "Global Warming". It is possible to have cooling in one area and excessive heating/flooding in other areas.

"Global Warming" will put more energy into our weather and oceanic currents, this in turn will make the Earth more violent in nature.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member


yes "skeptical science" another blog which assumes that the climate was invented in 1979, and thus we have been "burning up" since man first discovered fire has lots of cutesy graphs and charts which "prove" that any who dare believe that the ice age was real are just stoopid.

11000 years of warming, with several short term (decade and even centuries) of reversal before resuming is all a myth, it's hotter now than ever before, and humans are causing the temperature of Mars to raise as well

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

but "skeptical science" has an answer for that to:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

i guess all these myths about an ice age are just rationalizations for the real Troof:

the Jotuns.

Thor's battle against the Ice Giants of Niffelheim has drastically reduced their population, causing dramatic increases in Svartalf and Troll populations
Niffelheim's natural balance has been upset, and if the Asgardian Aggressors do not stop their Genocide against the innocent Jotuns, soon we will be overrun with goblins, trolls and duergar.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I have never seen California as HOT as it`s been in the last 10 years. I have lived here my entire life, don`t tell me I`m wrong. There has been more record heat days and more tree-fires than any time in recorded history in California. It`s bad.. Newtons law of thermal dynamics states that some areas can transfer heat/cold from one area to another. While Colorado is flooding, California is burning.

Violent weather which can destroy cities, like that of Sandi (New Jersey), and Katrina (New Orleans) are taking energy away from the "Global Warming". It is possible to have cooling in one area and excessive heating/flooding in other areas.

"Global Warming" will put more energy into our weather and oceanic currents, this in turn will make the Earth more violent in nature.
california has ALWAYS been hot (well for the last 8-10 thousand years)

you note the heat, because you are watching for it, but this heat is not unusual.

i remember back in the late 70's when i first came to california, (during the ice age scare) and it was BALLS HOT, even though i came from Utah, which was (ithought) also balls hot in summer, but is also bitter cold in winter.

the commonly repeated myth of "Dem Storms" is not a result of more powerful storms or more of them, just MORE REPORTING on them, and more people on the coast in regions subject to hurricanes.

Storms, unlike earthquakes do not have a Richter Scale, and as such are subject to estimations of their power based on the damage they do rather than the actual force they apply.

katrina was not that bad a hurricane(cat 3 at landfall), but it happened to hit a weak spot, and thus dealt Maximum Damage.

katrina was only a cat 5 (and thus the sixth most powerful hurricane in history) for a short time in the gulf, where it spent it's fury on the sea, by the time it hit land it was a fairly common storm

take a look at the hurricane history:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/outreach/history/

it is periodic, random, and NOT increasing in frequency.

the constant repetition of the Katrina fallderall makes it seem like it is happening all over again, every couple of months.

after katrina, it was 8 years before another hurricane struck, but it feels like it's happening all the time because you are constantly reminded that it is HAPPENING ALL THE TIME (even when it is clearly not).

the sun drives the weather, but the need for dramatic stories drives the press.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
yes "skeptical science" another blog which assumes that the climate was invented in 1979, and thus we have been "burning up" since man first discovered fire has lots of cutesy graphs and charts which "prove" that any who dare believe that the ice age was real are just stoopid.
They're using satellite data for that graph I hope I don't need to explain why it's dated as such

It quite clearly shows how ridiculous these denialist claims are

11000 years of warming, with several short term (decade and even centuries) of reversal before resuming is all a myth, it's hotter now than ever before, and humans are causing the temperature of Mars to raise as well


http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

but "skeptical science" has an answer for that to:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
It's amusing that you believe we can accurately say mars is warming yet we're befuddled to do same on earth...

Anyway yes they have got a page on that (I'll leave you the beginners version)

Mars is warming"Some people think that our planet is suffering from a fever. Now scientists are telling us that Mars is experiencing its own planetary warming: Martian warming. It seems scientists have noticed recently that quite a few planets in our solar system seem to be heating up a bit, including Pluto.
NASA says the Martian South Pole’s “ice cap” has been shrinking for three summers in a row. Maybe Mars got its fever from earth. If so, I guess Jupiter’s caught the same cold, because it’s warming up too, like Pluto." (Fred Thompson).
What the science says...
Select a level... Basic Intermediate
Mars is not warming globally.


It is hard to understand how anyone could claim global warming is happening on Mars when we can’t even agree what’s happening on the planet we live on. Yet they do, and the alleged reasoning is this; if other planets are warming up, then there is some solar system-wide phenomena at work – and therefore that it isn’t human activity causing climate change here on Earth.


The broadest counter argument depends on a simple premise: we know so little about Mars that it's impossible to say what trends in climate the planet is experiencing, or why changes occur. We do have information from various orbiting missions and the few lander explorations to date, yet even this small amount of data has been misunderstood, in terms of causal complexity and significance.


There are a few basic points about the climate on Mars that are worth reviewing:


Planets do not orbit the sun in perfect circles, sometimes they are slightly closer to the sun, sometimes further away. This is called orbital eccentricity and it contributes far greater changes to Martian climate than to that of the Earth because variations in Mars' orbit are five times greater than the Earth.
Mars has no oceans and only a very thin atmosphere, which means there is very little thermal inertia – the climate is much more susceptible to change caused by external influences.
The whole planet is subject to massive dust storms, and these have many causal effects on the planet’s climate, very little of which we understand yet.
We have virtually no historical data about the climate of Mars prior to the 1970s, except for drawings (and latterly, photographs) that reveal changes in gross surface features (i.e. features that can be seen from Earth through telescopes). It is not possible to tell if current observations reveal frequent or infrequent events, trends or outliers.
A picture is worth a thousand words, but only if you understand what it is saying
The global warming argument was strongly influenced by a paper written by a team led by NASA scientist Lori Fenton, who observed that changes in albedo – the property of light surfaces to reflect sunlight e.g. ice and snow – were shown when comparing 1977pictures of the Martian surface taken by the Viking spacecraft, to a 1999 image compiled by the Mars Global Surveyor. The pictures revealed that in 1977 the surface was brighter than in 1999, and from this Fenton used a general circulation model to suggest that between 1977 and 1999 the planet had experienced a warming trend of 0.65 degrees C. Fenton attributed the warming to surface dust causing a change in the planet's albedo.


Unfortunately, Fenton’s conclusions were undermined by the failure to distinguish between climate (trends) and weather (single events). Taking two end points – pictures from 1977 and 1999 – did not reveal any kind of trend, merely the weather on two specific Martian days. Without the intervening data – which was not available – it is impossible to say whether there was a trend in albedo reduction, or what part the prodigious dust storms played in the intervening period between the first and second photographs. Indeed, when you look at all the available data – sparse though it is – there is no discernable long term trend in albedo.


At this time, there is little empirical evidence that Mars is warming. Mars' climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo, not solar variations, and we know the sun is not heating up all the planets in our solar system because we can accurately measure the sun’s output here on Earth.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm
i guess all these myths about an ice age are just rationalizations for the real Troof:
The "ice age myths" are good for usefully idiots like yourself to exclaim when it's cold and pat each other on the back for being so clever......
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Newtons law of thermal dynamics states that some areas can transfer heat/cold from one area to another.
Newton was a bad ass, for sure, but he had little to do with thermodynamics outside of creating Calculus.
Clausius and Clayperon were the ones who started the ball rolling with the ideal gas law in the early to mid 1800s, along with Carnot trying to figure out engine efficiency.
Then there is that damn Sackur-Tetrode equation... now there is a headache. :lol:

Although, I suppose one could argue that earlier attempts in the 1600s IIRC (maybe it was earlier?) to create "air conditioning" was the real first step.
A great documentary to watch is ABSOLUTE ZERO that looks at the history of the attempts to achieve zero Kelvin (along with some wicked footage of the Bose-Einstein condensate in action!)

[video=youtube;-yTvnTB-gfA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yTvnTB-gfA[/video]
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
They're using satellite data for that graph I hope I don't need to explain why it's dated as such
the ice age was REAL, and we are peaking in an "Interglacial Period" which is expected to continue for another couple hundred years before an expected return to a cooling trend.

stop mischaracterizing my statements.

It quite clearly shows how ridiculous these denialist claims are
the true beleivers cannot claim to corner the market on ideas, you are practicing orthodoxy, which is anathema to science.

It's amusing that you believe we can accurately say mars is warming yet we're befuddled to do same on earth...
mars' polar CO2 sheets are retreating.
and your statement is a "Special Pleading"

Anyway yes they have got a page on that (I'll leave you the beginners version)


http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm
repeating my citation doesnt make this citation more Troofy, nor does it make the assertions any more rational, it is still a rationalization in defense of your beliefs which depend on Cherry picking evidence and slandering scientists who do not agree

The "ice age myths" are good for usefully idiots like yourself to exclaim when it's cold and pat each other on the back for being so clever......
we ARE in an Interglatial Period. pretending we are not is willful ignorance.
11000 years of warming must be ignored, so we can focus on what's happened since 1979, doesnt sound like "good science" to me.

it's been much warmer, and it's been a LOT colder, all without the benefit of Anthropogenic Global Climate Change to drive it.

this does not mean i think we should burn more fossil fuels, and see if we can make MORE of a difference, but likewise you cannot rationally assert that it is "caused by man", which remains the entire thrust of the reportage, especially from the UN's panel on "climate change".
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
california has ALWAYS been hot (well for the last 8-10 thousand years)

you note the heat, because you are watching for it, but this heat is not unusual.

i remember back in the late 70's when i first came to california, (during the ice age scare) and it was BALLS HOT, even though i came from Utah, which was (ithought) also balls hot in summer, but is also bitter cold in winter.

the commonly repeated myth of "Dem Storms" is not a result of more powerful storms or more of them, just MORE REPORTING on them, and more people on the coast in regions subject to hurricanes.

Storms, unlike earthquakes do not have a Richter Scale, and as such are subject to estimations of their power based on the damage they do rather than the actual force they apply.

katrina was not that bad a hurricane(cat 3 at landfall), but it happened to hit a weak spot, and thus dealt Maximum Damage.

katrina was only a cat 5 (and thus the sixth most powerful hurricane in history) for a short time in the gulf, where it spent it's fury on the sea, by the time it hit land it was a fairly common storm

take a look at the hurricane history:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/outreach/history/

it is periodic, random, and NOT increasing in frequency.

the constant repetition of the Katrina fallderall makes it seem like it is happening all over again, every couple of months.

after katrina, it was 8 years before another hurricane struck, but it feels like it's happening all the time because you are constantly reminded that it is HAPPENING ALL THE TIME (even when it is clearly not).

the sun drives the weather, but the need for dramatic stories drives the press.
Katrina damage was due to the large storm surge it created. the fact it was a lesser hurricane when it reached land means nothing

The data on hurricanes is looking to disagree with you

[h=2]New Research Shows Humans Causing More Strong Hurricanes[/h][h=4]Posted on 29 April 2013 by dana1981[/h]The link between human-caused global warming and extreme weather is often difficult to pin down, particularly with regards to hurricanes. As Kevin Trenberth has discussed, all weather now occurs in a climate that humans have altered.
"it is important to recognize that we have a “new normal,” whereby the environment in which all storms form is simply different than it was just a few decades ago. Global climate change has contributed to the higher sea surface and sub-surface ocean temperatures, a warmer and moisteratmosphere above the ocean, higher water levels around the globe, and perhaps more precipitation in storms."​
Two new papers have recently been published examining the link between global warming and hurricane intensity. In both cases, the scientists have found evidence that the most intense hurricanes are already occurring more often as a result of human-caused global warming. However, their predictions about future hurricane changes differ somewhat.[h=3]Grinsted on Hurricane Storm Surges[/h]Last year, Tamino examined Grinsted et al. (2012), which demonstrated that the most extreme storm surge events can mainly be attributed to large landfalling hurricanes, and that those events are strongly linked to hurricane damage. The study also found that there have been twice as many Katrina-magnitude storm surge events in globally warm years as compared to cold years.In a new paper, Grinsted et al. (2013) constructed a storm surge index beginning in 1923 from six long tide gauge records in the southeastern USA. The idea is that surges in sea level recorded at tide gauge stations can tell us about strong hurricane events. Consistent with their 2012 results, the authors found:
"The strong winds and intense low pressure associated with tropical cyclones generate storm surges. These storm surges are the most harmful aspect of tropical cyclones in the current climate, and wherever tropical cyclones prevail they are the primary cause of storm surges."​
They compared their storm surge index to changes in global surface temperature, to temperatures in the Main Development Region (MDR; a part of the Atlantic Ocean where most hurricanes form), and to MDR warming relative to the tropical mean temperatures (rMDR). They found that averaged sea surface temperatures over the MDR are the best predictor of Atlantic cyclone activity, followed by global average surface temperature, with MDR warming relative to the tropics being the worst predictor of hurricane activity (Figure 1).Figure 1: (A) Average surge index over the cyclone season. (B) Observed frequency
of surge events with surge index greater than 10 units per year (surge index > 10 units). (C) Global average temperature, MDR temperature, and rMDR temperature anomaly. Inset shows locations along the US coast of the six tide gauges used in the surge index.Grinsted et al. then used the relationships between hurricane storm surges and global and MDR temperatures to predict how storm surges will change in the future. They used theRepresentative Concentrations Pathway (RCP) 4.5 scenario, which represents a future in which we slowly reduce human greenhouse gas emissions such that they peak around the year 2040. In this scenario, there is approximately 2.4°C global surface warming over the 21st century. The results are shown in Figure 2.
"The response to a 1°C warming is consistently an increase [in Katrina-levelstorm surges] by a factor of 2–7 ... This increase does not include the additional increasing surge threat from sea level rise"​
Figure 2: Number of Katrina magnitude surge events per decade (B) hindcast and projected changes in temperatures from climate model BNU-ESM under for RCP4.5 (A). The thick blue line shows the projection using the full spatial gridded temperatures and confidenceinterval (5–16–84–95%); magenta and black show the projections using only Main Development Region (MDR) and global average surface temperature.In short, the Grinsted results suggest that by the end of the century, we will see 2 to 7 times more Katrina-like intense hurricanes. Moreover, their storm surges and associated damage will be even larger because sea levels will also be higher.In another important result, Grinsted et al. found that on average, the frequency of Katrina-magnitude storm surges doubles for every approximately 0.4°C average global surface warming. Since human-caused global surface warming over the past century has already exceeded 0.4°C,
"we have probably crossed the threshold where Katrina magnitude hurricane surges are more likely caused by global warming than not."​
[h=3]Holland and Bruyère[/h]Holland and Bruyère (2013) developed an Anthropogenic Climate Change Index (ACCI) to investigate the potential global warming contribution to current tropical cyclone activity. Their ACCI is the difference between climate model runs including human climateinfluences (greenhouse gases and aerosols) and runs without those human influences.The study concluded that while they don't see any human influence in the total number of hurricanes, there is a strong signal with global warming causing more strong (Category 4 and 5) and fewer weak (Category 1 and 2) hurricanes (Figure 3).
"We find an observed change in the proportion of global Cat 4–5 hurricanes (relative to all hurricanes) at a rate of ~40% increase in proportion per °C increase in ACCI ... We conclude that since 1975 there has been a substantial and observable regional and global increase in the proportion of Cat 4–5 hurricanes of 25–30% per °C of anthropogenic global warming."​
Figure 3: Human influence on hurricane proportions in the highest (Category 4-5) and lowest (Category 1-2) Saffir–Simpson hurricane categoriesThis result means more than a doubling of strong hurricanes for every °C of warming, similar to that of Grinsted et al. (2–7 times more Katrina-like events), though a bit lower.The good news is that the model used by Holland and Bruyère anticipates that we are approaching a limit in this trend of increasing proportionality of intense hurricanes.
"An important finding is that the proportion of intense hurricanes appears to initially increase in response to warming oceans, but then approach a saturation level after which no further increases occur. There is tentative evidence that the saturation level will differ across the tropical cyclone basins and that the global proportion of Cat 4–5 hurricanes may already be near it’s saturation level of ~40–50%."​
[h=3]Summary[/h]These two papers add to the growing body of evidence that we are seeing more intense hurricanes as a result of human-caused global warming. The Grinsted paper also notes that the most harmful aspect of hurricanes – storm surges – have become larger over the past few decades.The future of hurricanes remains an open question. While Grinsted predicts that the most intense hurricanes will continue to become more and more frequent in a warming world, the results of Holland and Bruyère suggest that we may be near the peak of intense hurricane frequency. The Grinsted results are more in line with most previous hurriane modeling research, but for the sake of people living in areas subject to hurricanes, we hope that Holland and Bruyère are correct about the hurricane saturation level.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
[h=2]New Research Shows Humans Causing More Strong Hurricanes[/h][h=4]Posted on 29 April 2013 by dana1981[/h]The link between human-caused global warming and extreme weather is often difficult to pin down, particularly with regards to hurricanes. As Kevin Trenberth has discussed, all weather now occurs in a climate that humans have altered.
"it is important to recognize that we have a “new normal,” whereby the environment in which all storms form is simply different than it was just a few decades ago. Global climate change has contributed to the higher sea surface and sub-surface ocean temperatures, a warmer and moisteratmosphere above the ocean, higher water levels around the globe, and perhaps more precipitation in storms."​
Two new papers have recently been published examining the link between global warming and hurricane intensity. In both cases, the scientists have found evidence that the most intense hurricanes are already occurring more often as a result of human-caused global warming. However, their predictions about future hurricane changes differ somewhat.[h=3]Grinsted on Hurricane Storm Surges[/h]Last year, Tamino examined Grinsted et al. (2012), which demonstrated that the most extreme storm surge events can mainly be attributed to large landfalling hurricanes, and that those events are strongly linked to hurricane damage. The study also found that there have been twice as many Katrina-magnitude storm surge events in globally warm years as compared to cold years.In a new paper, Grinsted et al. (2013) constructed a storm surge index beginning in 1923 from six long tide gauge records in the southeastern USA. The idea is that surges in sea level recorded at tide gauge stations can tell us about strong hurricane events. Consistent with their 2012 results, the authors found:
"The strong winds and intense low pressure associated with tropical cyclones generate storm surges. These storm surges are the most harmful aspect of tropical cyclones in the current climate, and wherever tropical cyclones prevail they are the primary cause of storm surges."​
They compared their storm surge index to changes in global surface temperature, to temperatures in the Main Development Region (MDR; a part of the Atlantic Ocean where most hurricanes form), and to MDR warming relative to the tropical mean temperatures (rMDR). They found that averaged sea surface temperatures over the MDR are the best predictor of Atlantic cyclone activity, followed by global average surface temperature, with MDR warming relative to the tropics being the worst predictor of hurricane activity (Figure 1).Figure 1: (A) Average surge index over the cyclone season. (B) Observed frequency
of surge events with surge index greater than 10 units per year (surge index > 10 units). (C) Global average temperature, MDR temperature, and rMDR temperature anomaly. Inset shows locations along the US coast of the six tide gauges used in the surge index.Grinsted et al. then used the relationships between hurricane storm surges and global and MDR temperatures to predict how storm surges will change in the future. They used theRepresentative Concentrations Pathway (RCP) 4.5 scenario, which represents a future in which we slowly reduce human greenhouse gas emissions such that they peak around the year 2040. In this scenario, there is approximately 2.4°C global surface warming over the 21st century. The results are shown in Figure 2.
"The response to a 1°C warming is consistently an increase [in Katrina-levelstorm surges] by a factor of 2–7 ... This increase does not include the additional increasing surge threat from sea level rise"​
Figure 2: Number of Katrina magnitude surge events per decade (B) hindcast and projected changes in temperatures from climate model BNU-ESM under for RCP4.5 (A). The thick blue line shows the projection using the full spatial gridded temperatures and confidenceinterval (5–16–84–95%); magenta and black show the projections using only Main Development Region (MDR) and global average surface temperature.In short, the Grinsted results suggest that by the end of the century, we will see 2 to 7 times more Katrina-like intense hurricanes. Moreover, their storm surges and associated damage will be even larger because sea levels will also be higher.In another important result, Grinsted et al. found that on average, the frequency of Katrina-magnitude storm surges doubles for every approximately 0.4°C average global surface warming. Since human-caused global surface warming over the past century has already exceeded 0.4°C,
"we have probably crossed the threshold where Katrina magnitude hurricane surges are more likely caused by global warming than not."​
[h=3]Holland and Bruyère[/h]Holland and Bruyère (2013) developed an Anthropogenic Climate Change Index (ACCI) to investigate the potential global warming contribution to current tropical cyclone activity. Their ACCI is the difference between climate model runs including human climateinfluences (greenhouse gases and aerosols) and runs without those human influences.The study concluded that while they don't see any human influence in the total number of hurricanes, there is a strong signal with global warming causing more strong (Category 4 and 5) and fewer weak (Category 1 and 2) hurricanes (Figure 3).
"We find an observed change in the proportion of global Cat 4–5 hurricanes (relative to all hurricanes) at a rate of ~40% increase in proportion per °C increase in ACCI ... We conclude that since 1975 there has been a substantial and observable regional and global increase in the proportion of Cat 4–5 hurricanes of 25–30% per °C of anthropogenic global warming."​
Figure 3: Human influence on hurricane proportions in the highest (Category 4-5) and lowest (Category 1-2) Saffir–Simpson hurricane categoriesThis result means more than a doubling of strong hurricanes for every °C of warming, similar to that of Grinsted et al. (2–7 times more Katrina-like events), though a bit lower.The good news is that the model used by Holland and Bruyère anticipates that we are approaching a limit in this trend of increasing proportionality of intense hurricanes.
"An important finding is that the proportion of intense hurricanes appears to initially increase in response to warming oceans, but then approach a saturation level after which no further increases occur. There is tentative evidence that the saturation level will differ across the tropical cyclone basins and that the global proportion of Cat 4–5 hurricanes may already be near it’s saturation level of ~40–50%."​
[h=3]Summary[/h]These two papers add to the growing body of evidence that we are seeing more intense hurricanes as a result of human-caused global warming. The Grinsted paper also notes that the most harmful aspect of hurricanes – storm surges – have become larger over the past few decades.The future of hurricanes remains an open question. While Grinsted predicts that the most intense hurricanes will continue to become more and more frequent in a warming world, the results of Holland and Bruyère suggest that we may be near the peak of intense hurricane frequency. The Grinsted results are more in line with most previous hurriane modeling research, but for the sake of people living in areas subject to hurricanes, we hope that Holland and Bruyère are correct about the hurricane saturation level.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Katrina damage was due to the large storm surge it created. the fact it was a lesser hurricane when it reached land means nothing

The data on hurricanes is looking to disagree with you


http://skepticalscience.com/grinsted-hurricane-stronger.html
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more assertions without facts.

katrina's storm surge broke a failing levy.

if a minor 1.2 earthquake knocks down a rickety old chicken coop does this mean the earthquake was "a massive temblor which destroyed historic buildings"?

your assertion is specious.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
more assertions without facts.

katrina's storm surge broke a failing levy.

if a minor 1.2 earthquake knocks down a rickety old chicken coop does this mean the earthquake was "a massive temblor which destroyed historic buildings"?

your assertion is specious.
Storm surge flooding of 25 to 28 feet above normal tide levels was associated with Katrina. More...
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/surge/

Your telling me a 28foot storm surge is equivalent to a 1.2 earthquake?

Cool story bro can ya tell it again?
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
Extreme weather isn't caused by global warming"The 30 major droughts of the 20th century were likely natural in all respects; and, hence, they are "indicative of what could also happen in the future," as Narisma et al. state in their concluding paragraph. And happen they will. Consequently, the next time a serious drought takes hold of some part of the world and the likes of Al Gore blame it on the "carbon footprints" of you and your family, ask them why just the opposite of what their hypothesis suggests actually occurred over the course of the 20th century, i.e., why, when the earth warmed - and at a rate and to a degree that they claim was unprecedented overthousands of years - the rate-of-occurrence of severe regionaldroughts actually declined." (source: CO2 Science)

[h=2]What the science says...[/h]
Select a level... Basic
Intermediate
There is growing empirical evidence that warming temperatures cause more intense hurricanes, heavier rainfalls and flooding, increased conditions for wildfires and dangerous heat waves.
There are numerous examples of increased extreme weather frequency already being attributed to humans in the published peer-reviewed scientific literature. For example, Pall et al. (2011):
"Here we present a multi-step, physically based ‘probabilistic eventattribution’ framework showing that it is very likely that global anthropogenicgreenhouse gas emissions substantially increased the risk of flood occurrence in England and Wales in autumn 2000"​
Min et al. (2011):
"Here we show that human-induced increases in greenhouse gases have contributed to the observed intensification of heavy precipitation events found over approximately two-thirds of data-covered parts of Northern Hemisphere land areas."​
Dai et al. (2011):
"All the four forms of the PDSI show widespread drying over Africa, East and South Asia, and other areas from 1950 to 2008, and most of this drying is due to recent warming. The global percentage of dry areas has increased by about 1.74% (of global land area) per decade from 1950 to 2008."​
Zwiers et al. (2011):
"Therefore, it is concluded that the influence of anthropogenic forcing has had a detectable influence on extreme temperatures that have impacts on human society and natural systems at global and regional scales"
Coumou & Rahmstorf (2012):
"Here, we review the evidence and argue that for some types of extreme — notably heatwaves, but also precipitation extremes — there is now strong evidence linking specific events or an increase in their numbers to the human influence on climate. For other types of extreme, such as storms, the available evidence is less conclusive, but based on observed trends and basic physical concepts it is nevertheless plausible to expect an increase."​
Hansen et al. (2012):
"we can state, with a high degree of confidence, that extreme anomalies such as those in Texas and Oklahoma in 2011 and Moscow in 2010 were a consequence of global warming because their likelihood in the absence of global warming was exceedingly small."​
Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center GISS and Scientific Visualization StudioLike Hansen et al., Donat and Alexander (2012) found that global warming has made extreme heat waves more likely to occur.
"...there is a 40% increase in more recent decades in the number of extreme temperatures defined by the warmest 5% of the 1951–1980 distribution."​
Like Coumou & Rahmstorf, Otto et al. (2012) found that global warming contributed to the intensity of the extreme 2010 Russian heat wave, concluding there was
"...a three-fold increase in the risk of the 2010 threshold being exceeded, supporting the assertion that the risk of the event occurring was mainly attributable to the external trend."​
While it is very difficult to attribute individual weather events to global warming, we do know that climate change will 'load the dice' and result in more frequent extreme weather events.The IPCC Special Report on Managing the Risks of Extreme Events and Disasters to Advance Climate Change Adaptation (SREX), also discusses the relationship between human-caused climate change and various types of extreme weather events. For example, the SREX says:
"It is likely that anthropogenic influences have led to warming of extreme daily minimum and maximum temperatures at the global scale. There is mediumconfidence that anthropogenic influences have contributed to intensification of extreme precipitation at the global scale. It is likely that there has been ananthropogenic influence on increasing extreme coastal high water due to an increase in mean sea level."​
and
"Extreme weather and climate events, interacting with exposed and vulnerable human and natural systems, can lead to disasters."​
On drought, the SREX finds:
"There is medium confidence that some regions of the world have experienced more intense and longer droughts, in particular in southern Europe and West Africa, but in some regions droughts have become less frequent, less intense, or shorter, for example, in central North America and northwestern Australia."​
The SREX also has important conclusions regarding future drought changes:
"There is medium confidence that droughts will intensify in the 21st century in some seasons and areas, due to reduced precipitation and/or increasedevapotranspiration. This applies to regions including southern Europe and the Mediterranean region, central Europe, central North America, Central America and Mexico, northeast Brazil, and southern Africa."​
This conclusion is supported by Dai (2010), for example:
"Regions like the United States have avoided prolonged droughts during the last 50 years due to natural climate variations, but might see persistentdroughts in the next 20–50 years"​
Research by Emanuel (2012), Grinsted et al. (2013), and Holland and Bruyère (2013)concluded that global warming has already led to more intense hurricanes. As Grinsted et al. noted,
"we have probably crossed the threshold where Katrina magnitude hurricane surges are more likely caused by global warming than not."​
[h=3]Extreme Weather Obfuscation and Misdirection[/h]More frequently we are seeing climate contrarians dispute that human-caused climate change is impacting extreme weather events, often through misdirection by focusing on economic losses associated with extreme weather, rather than the frequency of the events themselves.There is a silver lining in this cloud of obfuscation - climate contrarians appear to be retreating more and more away from the "it's not happening" and "it's not us" myths, toward the "it's not bad" fallback position.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/extreme-weather-global-warming-intermediate.htm
 
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