What would your dream light setup be...if money was no object???
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Positivity
Well-Known Member
I've pretty much just built my dream system
22 xml l2 ww, 10 nw, 47 luxeon es 660nm, 2 405nm, 3 ledengin 735nm. 240w 2100ma white, 120w 700ma everything else. 365w at the plug
i did cut corners in a few areas because of cost. Divided onto two fixtures would have been more efficient. My ww are 3200k, would have preferred 2700k, used what was available pre mounted. All the leds mounted on sinkpads would have also been nice. Better housing could have been used (reused and gutted a crappy fixture). Other than that it was the best I could come up with on my own
Great thread for developing a road map for DIY people to follow. Keep it on track and realistic with readily available parts, it would be a great led resource. My brain is sore from figuring this out on my own.
22 xml l2 ww, 10 nw, 47 luxeon es 660nm, 2 405nm, 3 ledengin 735nm. 240w 2100ma white, 120w 700ma everything else. 365w at the plug
i did cut corners in a few areas because of cost. Divided onto two fixtures would have been more efficient. My ww are 3200k, would have preferred 2700k, used what was available pre mounted. All the leds mounted on sinkpads would have also been nice. Better housing could have been used (reused and gutted a crappy fixture). Other than that it was the best I could come up with on my own
Great thread for developing a road map for DIY people to follow. Keep it on track and realistic with readily available parts, it would be a great led resource. My brain is sore from figuring this out on my own.
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Mechmike
Well-Known Member
Water cooling is an interesting idea. It would certainly be nice for driving leds at their max rated amperage. I'm not an ace welder or I might build myself one. I'd be concerned about leaks. When charged with coolant it would probably be fairly heavy as well. It would be doable. I'd try using a automotive transmission cooler as a radiator.
Bumping Spheda
Well-Known Member
Remote phosphor floor?! Now we're just getting crazy. 
It'd be next to impossible to control the beam angle, half the light would be wasted on illuminating your pots/hydro system. And I believe Green light is most efficiently absorbed on the undersides of leaves. I'm not sure if it would be the best idea to have WW and Red LED's underneath the plants. Perhaps Neutral White, or something else with high Green output?
Tbh, though, I think I'd rather just have the floor and walls be highly reflective. Perhaps a remote phosphor, height adjustable ceiling? Something along the lines of the Cineo TruColor HS, but scaled up? And you should be able to easily change the RP lenses to change the CCT depending on the stage of growth.
This is random (and contrary to Positivity's recommendation, completely impractical for any DIY'er), but I've been thinking it could be cool. I've seen remote phosphor films on Alibaba. It's a phosphor doped PET film about ?50-100 microns thick?. Supposedly it absorbs less light than the much thicker plastic and glass RP lenses that we've seen, such as those offered by Intematix. This is not why I'm interested in them, however. What if you made a long RP sheet, perhaps 24"x48", that was glued/fused together at the ends to effectively make a long loop, 24" wide with a 48" circumference? And what if the phosphor layer gradually shifted from ~2200K to ~5000K and then back to ~2200K? You'd have the looped phosphor sheet somewhat taught in a motorized system that passed over the mixing chamber, and it would slowly revolve at a variable speed between 1 and 1/24 rotations per hour. This would allow you to set it up so that at lights on it's roughly 2200K, reaches about 5000k during "noon," and then gradually lowers in Kelvin as it approaches lights off, slowly increasing in Red/Deep Red/and IR light. You could also have some UV-B, UV-A, and near-UV diodes in the mixing chamber so that UV output gradually climaxes during the "noon" period as the rate of phosphor down conversion reaches its minimum... Idk, stupid idea, mostly, but it'd be sweet, imo, if LED panels could have variable Kelvin appearances without having LED's sit idly by or at very low wattage for most of the day, such as how most veg/bloom spectrum panels are designed. :/
Mechmike: They make water cooled CPU coolers. I feel those would offer enough variability and ample cooling performance for our needs.
It'd be next to impossible to control the beam angle, half the light would be wasted on illuminating your pots/hydro system. And I believe Green light is most efficiently absorbed on the undersides of leaves. I'm not sure if it would be the best idea to have WW and Red LED's underneath the plants. Perhaps Neutral White, or something else with high Green output? Tbh, though, I think I'd rather just have the floor and walls be highly reflective. Perhaps a remote phosphor, height adjustable ceiling? Something along the lines of the Cineo TruColor HS, but scaled up? And you should be able to easily change the RP lenses to change the CCT depending on the stage of growth.
This is random (and contrary to Positivity's recommendation, completely impractical for any DIY'er), but I've been thinking it could be cool. I've seen remote phosphor films on Alibaba. It's a phosphor doped PET film about ?50-100 microns thick?. Supposedly it absorbs less light than the much thicker plastic and glass RP lenses that we've seen, such as those offered by Intematix. This is not why I'm interested in them, however. What if you made a long RP sheet, perhaps 24"x48", that was glued/fused together at the ends to effectively make a long loop, 24" wide with a 48" circumference? And what if the phosphor layer gradually shifted from ~2200K to ~5000K and then back to ~2200K? You'd have the looped phosphor sheet somewhat taught in a motorized system that passed over the mixing chamber, and it would slowly revolve at a variable speed between 1 and 1/24 rotations per hour. This would allow you to set it up so that at lights on it's roughly 2200K, reaches about 5000k during "noon," and then gradually lowers in Kelvin as it approaches lights off, slowly increasing in Red/Deep Red/and IR light. You could also have some UV-B, UV-A, and near-UV diodes in the mixing chamber so that UV output gradually climaxes during the "noon" period as the rate of phosphor down conversion reaches its minimum... Idk, stupid idea, mostly, but it'd be sweet, imo, if LED panels could have variable Kelvin appearances without having LED's sit idly by or at very low wattage for most of the day, such as how most veg/bloom spectrum panels are designed. :/
Mechmike: They make water cooled CPU coolers. I feel those would offer enough variability and ample cooling performance for our needs.
twostrokenut
Well-Known Member
I reckon you missed the indagro post.....I am flowering some test moms with exactly your dimensions on 2 4x4 tables each with a 420 light.....840 watts......pontoons would add a few watts and movers a few more......still would come in under 1000......
so under 2000w money no object for 4x8 no shit would be 4 static proPAR420's with 4 pontoons.......that would be.like 1830 watts but the pontoons only run at lights on/off so really less....that would be like 65 hundie too lol money being no concern and all.
tags420
Well-Known Member
I didn't miss it, it didn't go into detail like you just did. Not to mention your counter productive comment to start things off made just 30 seconds after I posted the thread really didn't make me want to acknowledge your second attempt to chime in.
But now that your talking seriously, if going induction that is how I would do it too. I have one 420 w/ pontoon that I flowered a 4x4 with, it could use either a mover or an other one to do it like a 1000w.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
For a 4x8 and money is NO option hmmmmm.............my dream setup under 2000watts
http://www.plasma-i.com/ecoplasma.htm 2 900w sulfur plasma panels !! lol ... their awesome though
or
2 660w apache tech 3/2 wr panels
or
4 cycloptics tech 315w philips elite agro bulb/vert reflector kits http://www.cycloptics.com/ god I love this thing, too much $$ though/dedicated 220v line
or
Illumitex unreleased/upgraded neosol panels..............as many as it takes to cover the area, when are they releasing their new gear anyways tags????
or
3 helispectra l4a panels!!! yes and we get to play sun gods with dials/software http://www.heliospectra.com/products-solutions/heliospectra-l4a-series-1 and whatever there releasing soon would interest me as well...........best quality emitters for the respected nms , second to none in build quality....but $7500 a piece
etc.
http://www.plasma-i.com/ecoplasma.htm 2 900w sulfur plasma panels !! lol ... their awesome though
or
2 660w apache tech 3/2 wr panels
or
4 cycloptics tech 315w philips elite agro bulb/vert reflector kits http://www.cycloptics.com/ god I love this thing, too much $$ though/dedicated 220v line
or
Illumitex unreleased/upgraded neosol panels..............as many as it takes to cover the area, when are they releasing their new gear anyways tags????
or
3 helispectra l4a panels!!! yes and we get to play sun gods with dials/software http://www.heliospectra.com/products-solutions/heliospectra-l4a-series-1 and whatever there releasing soon would interest me as well...........best quality emitters for the respected nms , second to none in build quality....but $7500 a piece
etc.
tags420
Well-Known Member
You my friend have put some good thought into this. All great choices.For a 4x8 and money is NO option hmmmmm.............my dream setup under 2000watts
http://www.plasma-i.com/ecoplasma.htm 2 900w sulfur plasma panels !! lol ... their awesome though
or
2 660w apache tech 3/2 wr panels
or
4 cycloptics tech 315w philips elite agro bulb/vert reflector kits http://www.cycloptics.com/ god I love this thing, too much $$ though/dedicated 220v line
or
Illumitex unreleased/upgraded neosol panels..............as many as it takes to cover the area, when are they releasing their new gear anyways tags????
or
3 helispectra l4a panels!!! yes and we get to play sun gods with dials/software http://www.heliospectra.com/products-solutions/heliospectra-l4a-series-1 and whatever there releasing soon would interest me as well...........best quality emitters for the respected nms , second to none in build quality....but $7500 a piece
etc.
I've never seen those plasmas, they look gnarly.
I love the the vertical reflectors for the 330cmh's...They had a like 6x6 box with 4 of those built into the roof at the max yield show.
IDK what's up with illumitex, they said october, but didn't really tell me what is new in it. I just saw it has better output with my own eyes so I assume the chips. It's defiantly impressive.
How many of each and in what configuration...how many watts total??XM-L2s, Oslon 660nm, XP-E2 630 all running at 350mA on copper mcpcb's
With roughly 50% total efficiency, just a dream though!
I got some samples from sink pad and a few are copper. Someone else brought up sink pads...are they good?
Positivity
Well-Known Member
I got some samples from sink pad and a few are copper. Someone else brought up sink pads...are they good?[/QUOTE]
Ive never used sink pads but they probably work great. My ledengin leds have an extra thick star and they were a lot harder to solder than the rest of the leds. I can only imagine how quickly a copper sinkpad would cool a led.
tebos> running at 350ma would net you the maximum lumens per watt? That sounds like a pretty awesome idea. Would obviously cost a ton of money for an equivalent amount of watts!
i just wonder if watts are the same regardless of each individual power source. The same way a 1000w hid seems to hit a lot harder than 4 250w units
but I see your point. Your version of whatever wattage would have like 30% more lumens than mine running at 2100ma. Just guessing the numbers, haven't crunched any numbers at all. But I'm sure it would be substantial..
Ive never used sink pads but they probably work great. My ledengin leds have an extra thick star and they were a lot harder to solder than the rest of the leds. I can only imagine how quickly a copper sinkpad would cool a led.
tebos> running at 350ma would net you the maximum lumens per watt? That sounds like a pretty awesome idea. Would obviously cost a ton of money for an equivalent amount of watts!
i just wonder if watts are the same regardless of each individual power source. The same way a 1000w hid seems to hit a lot harder than 4 250w units
but I see your point. Your version of whatever wattage would have like 30% more lumens than mine running at 2100ma. Just guessing the numbers, haven't crunched any numbers at all. But I'm sure it would be substantial..
Positivity
Well-Known Member
More on topic...
Money no object, I'd probably go with 2 of those new big apache tech fixtures. At660 i think they are called? they seem to be the cutting edge right now.
Or 4 of the lights I built, but I'm not about to build three more of these things. Once you start going that big I think your better off buying commercial units.
Money no object, I'd probably go with 2 of those new big apache tech fixtures. At660 i think they are called? they seem to be the cutting edge right now.
Or 4 of the lights I built, but I'm not about to build three more of these things. Once you start going that big I think your better off buying commercial units.
Loonquawl
Well-Known Member
3 of these http://www.heliospectra.com/l4a-series-10-technical-specifications
controlled some how with something like this http://www.academia.edu/3243327/Intelligent_lighting_system_for_plant_growth_and_development
Allowing for the light to adjust to the plant.
This will be the future.
controlled some how with something like this http://www.academia.edu/3243327/Intelligent_lighting_system_for_plant_growth_and_development
Allowing for the light to adjust to the plant.
This will be the future.
tags420
Well-Known Member
Just for thought, I would maybe do 4AT200 and 4sgs175's alternating. It would give me great CW from the AT's and Great WW/NW from the sgs's. Plus a really even and intense spread.
Two of the new at660's is the ideal switch from two 1000hps's and is actually very practical too. But since they run cooler and we are saying 2000w, I wonder what 3 at660's could do. It's probably beyond the over kill point. But if you hung them high, it would have the highest intensity all over the canopy that I can think of. It would basically be the ceiling of diodes effect others are talking about.
Or like puff said with 2 at660 and then 4 smaller units around the sides.
It makes me wonder where the point of diminishing returns begins. Gavita said at 1000µmols is where it began. And I more or less agree. A custom DIY has the greatest potential to be the most even coverage and hitting the 1000µmol mark at hanging height. But 1000hps sure don't hit it everywhere, so companies like AT or A51 should still beat the mark no prob.
EDIT:
I wonder what the chips in those heliospecs are?
Two of the new at660's is the ideal switch from two 1000hps's and is actually very practical too. But since they run cooler and we are saying 2000w, I wonder what 3 at660's could do. It's probably beyond the over kill point. But if you hung them high, it would have the highest intensity all over the canopy that I can think of. It would basically be the ceiling of diodes effect others are talking about.
Or like puff said with 2 at660 and then 4 smaller units around the sides.
It makes me wonder where the point of diminishing returns begins. Gavita said at 1000µmols is where it began. And I more or less agree. A custom DIY has the greatest potential to be the most even coverage and hitting the 1000µmol mark at hanging height. But 1000hps sure don't hit it everywhere, so companies like AT or A51 should still beat the mark no prob.
EDIT:
I wonder what the chips in those heliospecs are?
guod
Well-Known Member
The Dawg
Well-Known Member
Brother Tags You Actually Asked 2 Questions But I Will Answer The 1 You Want.But First I Belive We Led Users Has To Have A Different Mindset When It Comes To Watts Per Square Foot.I Know EH Has Been Drilling It Into My Head That More Watts Are A Waste Of Electricty When It Comes To Leds vs The HID Mindset.In My Last Grow I Ran 2 Area-51 Sgs's(155 Watts Per Light) In A 35x54 Tent And Hit.98 GPW. With 1 Plant Producing 70 Grams While The RockStar Came In At 234.5 Grams.You See I Like To Do More With Less Or Make My Grow As Efficient As Possiable And I Now Know That I Can Produce 1Lb Of Awsome Dense Buds Using Only 310 Watts Of Power.In Short My Brother I Already Have My Dream Setup But Of COARSE I Will Always Be Searching For That Holy Grail Spectrum.Now My 4x8 Setup Would Include 6 Area-51's Newist Light With 6 Scrogged Plants In My DIY WaterFarm With Attached Screens 24x32.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Ok, let's try this again.
If on;y running LED's, I'd probably run a type of vertical setup to save space and maximize my growing area. I'd make my carbon filter running down the middle of the 'column of panels' created by placing 4 panels in a diamond shape, and my 6" tubing would run out the top of the column, to the closest vent and out of the tent. I would place plants at varying heights around the tent up to about 6" up the walls. It would take about 16-20 panels, and I'd most likely use Area 51 panels. Could even have multiple carbon filters 'stacked' somehow; that would really remove the hot air from the tent and wouldn't take up any extra 'floor' space.
Here's a really terrible top down picture of what I would imagine the tent looking like.
I would obviously organize the plants better, as there would be some rhyme and reason to the layout not just random green circles.
EDIT: Could make the panel column a triangle too. That'd be 12-15 panels instead... Essentially you'd have three panels stacked on top of three panels, stacked on top of three panels, stacked on top of three panels, etc. etc....
12 x 165W = 1980W
15 x 165W = 2475W
20 x 165W = 3300W
Total power.
EDIT #2: Been thinking about this more, and I'd probably run a top drip hydro setup and put racks on the walls with hydroton filled PVC pipes. Make them point out on a 45 degree angle so more plants can fit for the space available.
If on;y running LED's, I'd probably run a type of vertical setup to save space and maximize my growing area. I'd make my carbon filter running down the middle of the 'column of panels' created by placing 4 panels in a diamond shape, and my 6" tubing would run out the top of the column, to the closest vent and out of the tent. I would place plants at varying heights around the tent up to about 6" up the walls. It would take about 16-20 panels, and I'd most likely use Area 51 panels. Could even have multiple carbon filters 'stacked' somehow; that would really remove the hot air from the tent and wouldn't take up any extra 'floor' space.
Here's a really terrible top down picture of what I would imagine the tent looking like.
I would obviously organize the plants better, as there would be some rhyme and reason to the layout not just random green circles.
EDIT: Could make the panel column a triangle too. That'd be 12-15 panels instead... Essentially you'd have three panels stacked on top of three panels, stacked on top of three panels, stacked on top of three panels, etc. etc....
12 x 165W = 1980W
15 x 165W = 2475W
20 x 165W = 3300W
Total power.
EDIT #2: Been thinking about this more, and I'd probably run a top drip hydro setup and put racks on the walls with hydroton filled PVC pipes. Make them point out on a 45 degree angle so more plants can fit for the space available.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Here's a really shitty drawing! lol never mind the fact that the panels are 2D.... or that the plants are green sticks...
My carbon filter would stand vertical in the middle of the panels the the tubing would come out the top.It would be nice to build a type of stand for the panels instead of hanging them, that way you could use a small motor to rotate the stand for better coverage.
PICOGRAV
Well-Known Member
I think phase one of my setup would be the DC power supply system, I would buy a few ultra capacitors or battery's and have them charging at the maximum 2000 watt usage when ever the lights are not in use. Then DC power supply system would feed the 2000 watts from POCO into the lighting system while adding peak boosts of up to 10,000 watts from the super capacitors during the daylight times, of course you would have control on how much extra power, you could just double the 2000 Watts to 4000 or just ad as much or as little as you want, while never going over the 2000 watt supply from the POCO.
The lights would properly be Bridgelux COBS of 2700K, 3500K and 5000K color temps.
EDIT: I think you would boost the power when you know the leaves are not in photo protected mode and then switch back to POCO supply when they are. That way you are not wasting the extra light power by just making heat but still supplying the right amount for proper veg.
The lights would properly be Bridgelux COBS of 2700K, 3500K and 5000K color temps.
EDIT: I think you would boost the power when you know the leaves are not in photo protected mode and then switch back to POCO supply when they are. That way you are not wasting the extra light power by just making heat but still supplying the right amount for proper veg.
PICOGRAV
Well-Known Member
Also could I spend some money on solar panels as well? That way I could charge with POCO supply or with the sun, then I wouldn't have to pay for anything?