chazbolin
Well-Known Member
Over the relatively short time I have known Tags I've enjoyed the ebb and flow of our many discussions and will miss his posts. Whatever the reason for his hiatus, Tags has brought alot to RIU and I wanted to just throw this out there for consideration.
I don't think any company, AT included, has any reason, whatsoever, to not support those who have invested their own time and money into that company's product(s) when that person, compensated or not, is taking their work to the public and showing how those products perform so that a wider audience can make an informed decision as to how that product(s) will likely work in their own garden. I think Tags, as an end user of AT products, has shown enthusiasm that goes far beyond what any company could hope for from someone who is willing to carry the corporate torch without any direct compensation. Discounts on AT products would be the least I would expect AT to provide. And if they are willing to provide that type of indirect compensation and go even further by relying on Tags to man the Apache booth at the last Maximum Yield show in SF they know that his gardens of choice are cannabis and he is actively promoting the use of their products for this application. It is long past the time that manufacturers quit playing this little two step. When I go to any MY show 90% of the people I talk to are growing weed and 100% of of the hydro crowd are growing weed. The mere fact that AT has a booth with Tags in it means they recognize this and have, at a minimum, passively condoned it.
I'm an ESCO with Inda-Gro which means I get discounts, on their products for every garden I've ever helped set up. If I introduce someone to IG who becomes an ESCO I get a hearty handshake and that ESCO buys at the same levels as I do. I know this and still set up ESCO's all the time. Because it's good for the grower! It's not so great for the wholesalers who leach 40% off the backs of the gardener and depend on brick and mortar retailers to extend their obscene profits, driven by international hyper media campaigns with semi-clad chicks laying on their arched backs all meant to promote the idea that this is the 'product to buy', the 'must have' for your garden. So the retailers don't push LED lights because 'they don't stack up to HID' when even if that in the majority of the cases is true, there are companies out there like AT that make products that are meant to compete with HID because they have built a better mouse trap. The retailers have it much easier pushing the 'tried and true' that the wholesaler has been marketing for them and has made it at least somewhat profitable to stock and sell because whenever someone walks in the store and asks 'what works best?' it just so happens to be whatever the store has on their shelves and since the marketing is behind it the majority of purchases are determined by the sizzle and not the steak.
But all this is changing for the retailers. Rapidly. Big boxes like Walmart, Home Depot, Sear, Lowes, etc... are selling hydro systems now. With so many retailers racing to the bottom by trying to keep market share by reducing their prices to Amazon.com levels they are assuring that their days are numbered. When any of the big boxes get serious about this (give them 1-2 years) and get up to speed believe me the existing distribution system is going to be gone because the big boys buy up all the mfg in China and squeeze the wholesale/retailer out of existence.
AT needs qualified independent types of reviews now more than ever. They need this type of qualified support to factually lay out what their products can do in a cannabis garden. They do not have the luxury of ignoring the cannabis market because it is these gardens that drive innovation. Their innovations. To put those innovations into perspective, I was at the 2013 Agronomics expo in Reno, NV last week where IG had a booth and two of the noted guest speakers who I had the opportunity meet were the CA Secretary of Agriculture, Dr. Karen Ross and the Father of Agricultural Bio-Technology, Dr. Robert Fraley. These people are not hung up on R&D with cannabis at all. In fact Dr. Ross was the first to note that CA has recently recognized industrial hemp as a legal crop within the state with passage of SB 566 http://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/2013-09-27-governor-signs-senator-leno-s-industrial-hemp-bill What I found especially rewarding, having been in the industry since the 70's, was how many of the 'traditional' farmers who attended this convention were very interested in if IG products were used for cannabis. These are well established, successful businessmen who had absolutely no problem discussing cannabis in terms of it's use in medical treatment and recognizing that their industry is taking a new approach to how cannabis might fit into their land-crop management decisions in the coming years.
There are just so many NASA and university greenhouse retrofits going on and I can assure you that AT is not getting all of them. If Tags isn't posting on RIU anymore because things got wonky with AT on the discount code for RIU readers that should not have happened and ultimately it represents a loss in sales from those who may have purchased AT but now won't. If I tell my customer something is going to happen and I have factory assurances that it's going to happen and I relay it to my customers or readers then it had damn well better happen. There is no excuse for that and I would not tolerate it as any company I represent has to have my back. Even if covering my back which was only what I was told I could convey to my customers anyway costs them a few bucks in the short run. What is the big deal when you weigh the potential cost of losing support from those who would provide honest evaluations of their products. By losing even a little bit of that support it helps to add fuel to the debate as to why one should simply not buy into any technology other than HID. No lighting manufacturer, who competes with HID, can afford to take a position, either publicly or privately, where the cannabis gardener might be even considered as somehow less significant than more traditional gardens.
Be well brother Tags. Your work has been appreciated by many. Don't stay a stranger and if you ever need anything you know how to find me.
I don't think any company, AT included, has any reason, whatsoever, to not support those who have invested their own time and money into that company's product(s) when that person, compensated or not, is taking their work to the public and showing how those products perform so that a wider audience can make an informed decision as to how that product(s) will likely work in their own garden. I think Tags, as an end user of AT products, has shown enthusiasm that goes far beyond what any company could hope for from someone who is willing to carry the corporate torch without any direct compensation. Discounts on AT products would be the least I would expect AT to provide. And if they are willing to provide that type of indirect compensation and go even further by relying on Tags to man the Apache booth at the last Maximum Yield show in SF they know that his gardens of choice are cannabis and he is actively promoting the use of their products for this application. It is long past the time that manufacturers quit playing this little two step. When I go to any MY show 90% of the people I talk to are growing weed and 100% of of the hydro crowd are growing weed. The mere fact that AT has a booth with Tags in it means they recognize this and have, at a minimum, passively condoned it.
I'm an ESCO with Inda-Gro which means I get discounts, on their products for every garden I've ever helped set up. If I introduce someone to IG who becomes an ESCO I get a hearty handshake and that ESCO buys at the same levels as I do. I know this and still set up ESCO's all the time. Because it's good for the grower! It's not so great for the wholesalers who leach 40% off the backs of the gardener and depend on brick and mortar retailers to extend their obscene profits, driven by international hyper media campaigns with semi-clad chicks laying on their arched backs all meant to promote the idea that this is the 'product to buy', the 'must have' for your garden. So the retailers don't push LED lights because 'they don't stack up to HID' when even if that in the majority of the cases is true, there are companies out there like AT that make products that are meant to compete with HID because they have built a better mouse trap. The retailers have it much easier pushing the 'tried and true' that the wholesaler has been marketing for them and has made it at least somewhat profitable to stock and sell because whenever someone walks in the store and asks 'what works best?' it just so happens to be whatever the store has on their shelves and since the marketing is behind it the majority of purchases are determined by the sizzle and not the steak.
But all this is changing for the retailers. Rapidly. Big boxes like Walmart, Home Depot, Sear, Lowes, etc... are selling hydro systems now. With so many retailers racing to the bottom by trying to keep market share by reducing their prices to Amazon.com levels they are assuring that their days are numbered. When any of the big boxes get serious about this (give them 1-2 years) and get up to speed believe me the existing distribution system is going to be gone because the big boys buy up all the mfg in China and squeeze the wholesale/retailer out of existence.
AT needs qualified independent types of reviews now more than ever. They need this type of qualified support to factually lay out what their products can do in a cannabis garden. They do not have the luxury of ignoring the cannabis market because it is these gardens that drive innovation. Their innovations. To put those innovations into perspective, I was at the 2013 Agronomics expo in Reno, NV last week where IG had a booth and two of the noted guest speakers who I had the opportunity meet were the CA Secretary of Agriculture, Dr. Karen Ross and the Father of Agricultural Bio-Technology, Dr. Robert Fraley. These people are not hung up on R&D with cannabis at all. In fact Dr. Ross was the first to note that CA has recently recognized industrial hemp as a legal crop within the state with passage of SB 566 http://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/2013-09-27-governor-signs-senator-leno-s-industrial-hemp-bill What I found especially rewarding, having been in the industry since the 70's, was how many of the 'traditional' farmers who attended this convention were very interested in if IG products were used for cannabis. These are well established, successful businessmen who had absolutely no problem discussing cannabis in terms of it's use in medical treatment and recognizing that their industry is taking a new approach to how cannabis might fit into their land-crop management decisions in the coming years.
There are just so many NASA and university greenhouse retrofits going on and I can assure you that AT is not getting all of them. If Tags isn't posting on RIU anymore because things got wonky with AT on the discount code for RIU readers that should not have happened and ultimately it represents a loss in sales from those who may have purchased AT but now won't. If I tell my customer something is going to happen and I have factory assurances that it's going to happen and I relay it to my customers or readers then it had damn well better happen. There is no excuse for that and I would not tolerate it as any company I represent has to have my back. Even if covering my back which was only what I was told I could convey to my customers anyway costs them a few bucks in the short run. What is the big deal when you weigh the potential cost of losing support from those who would provide honest evaluations of their products. By losing even a little bit of that support it helps to add fuel to the debate as to why one should simply not buy into any technology other than HID. No lighting manufacturer, who competes with HID, can afford to take a position, either publicly or privately, where the cannabis gardener might be even considered as somehow less significant than more traditional gardens.
Be well brother Tags. Your work has been appreciated by many. Don't stay a stranger and if you ever need anything you know how to find me.
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