Best LED's for 2013
- Thread starter ndm1952
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shamrockceo
Member
Price wise, the Area 51 lights will be incredibly cheaper. You can get 2 Area 51 new 2014 lights for almost half the cost of just a single Black Dog 750w Platinum XL light. However, looking at the specs for both lights, the Black Dog light is much more powerful. From what I can tell, the Area 51 lights give 190w each, so 2 of them would produce 380w of led lighting. On the contrary, a single Black Dog Platinum XL light gives you 750w, so 2 of those will give you a whopping 1500w of led lighting.
I'm in the same boat as you, planning on buying led lights myself - specifically black dogs. I'm a brand new grower (planning my first grow), so maybe take everything I say with a grain of salt, haha.
Good luck.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
It's not just about wattage, it's about efficiency too. Area51 uses CREE XT-E diodes, the second most efficient diodes on the planet; second only to the CREE XML2 diodes (which run at a lower wattage). Check the Area51 site for the uMoles readings and spectral analysis, and compare it to the Black Dog....
OgreTheFat
Member
why isnt anyone talking about G8LED from www.dormgrow.com they are awesome for the price. The growth under those things are mind-blowing
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Blackdog 750xl-u vs. A51 XGS-190
A51 all the way...number speak for themselves...even one on one, a51 would be my pick.
Here is the XGS's 3x3 foot print @24"pulling 190w
Here is the BD750xl also @24" pulling 750w except over a 4x4...but still is behind the XGS at every level...and I would bet even at the 4x4 if a51 showed that.
So after seeing what light is actually getting to the canopy, and how it is spread...a51.
With real numbers finally being show, hopefully this will be the end of manufacture bold coverage and intensity claims. There is a science behind what makes things grow, and led's or ganja is no exception to this. Every species has different requirements, but the basics are similar. It is about time that led's finally tried to use that science to build a light that fits the plant requirements for it's coverage space.
OgreTheFat
Member
G8LED 900 Full Spectrum from www.dormgrow.com (and no i have nothing to do with the company) Great light as far as bang for buck!
View attachment 2899188View attachment 2899191
(These 3 were taken under different camera settings, set the camera to 3030 on the Kelvin Scale and added flash to see the natural color of the plant)
Once flowering i added 2, G8LED 240 BLOOM only lights (i will add more pics soon, got busy before i got to take anymore)
View attachment 2899195
Definitely worth checking into!
View attachment 2899188View attachment 2899191 (These 3 were taken under different camera settings, set the camera to 3030 on the Kelvin Scale and added flash to see the natural color of the plant)
Once flowering i added 2, G8LED 240 BLOOM only lights (i will add more pics soon, got busy before i got to take anymore)
View attachment 2899195Definitely worth checking into!
NaturalWorksOrganics
Member
Leds...interesting indeed.
feasy
Member
What do you grow with now?
I doubt if you have 20K for lights this is your first grow.
If it is your first grow it doesn't matter what you buy growing isn't something you can just throw money at and get results. So If you do throw that much money at it then your stuck making what you get work. If I had 20K for Lights I would buy 4 4x4 tents I would buy a different light for each I would do 2 rounds of grows an see what works out best for me and my style of grow. Then I would spend the rest of my money on what works for me.
Most growers are small self grows but the scale you are talking about growing on should be treated like a business.
I doubt if you have 20K for lights this is your first grow.
If it is your first grow it doesn't matter what you buy growing isn't something you can just throw money at and get results. So If you do throw that much money at it then your stuck making what you get work. If I had 20K for Lights I would buy 4 4x4 tents I would buy a different light for each I would do 2 rounds of grows an see what works out best for me and my style of grow. Then I would spend the rest of my money on what works for me.
Most growers are small self grows but the scale you are talking about growing on should be treated like a business.
shamrockceo
Member
Your post is really interesting. The numbers are one thing, but is the light spectrum on the Area 51 light equal to or better for the plants specifically, as Black Dog's light? From what you're saying, the Area 51 definitely seems like the better light, especially when you look at price. However, I have that nagging in the back of my mind, making me wonder why - if the Area 51 is so much better, why is it less than 1/3rd the price of the Black Dog light. Surely Black Dog doesn't have THAT huge of a markup for their brand name sticker?
Conventionally, but of course not always, the more expensive product is usually better. Why is this particular situation seemingly the exact opposite?
I don't doubt you, I'm just very new at this, so I'm genuinely interested in you breaking it down very clearly for me.
Thanks.
MrFlux
Well-Known Member
It does. Compare the Black Dog to for example this nearly identical Chinese model that sells for less than 1/3 of the price.
If you think more expensive = better, then why not go pickup the Apache Tech AT-600? It's only $2500
shamrockceo
Member
Wow, haha, pretty eye opening, thank you. For the longest time recently, I was dead set on going the Black Dog route, but I think Area 51 is looking more and more like the better option.
Obviously, I said "usually", and was more interested in getting a useful explanation as to why this wasn't one of those times. Thanks.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Everyone needs stop questioning the all whites...what we see and what the plants see are two different things. We see all white as basically white. Plants see is as all the colors as there own and take light accordingly. White ansi(phosphorus conversion) chips are primarily blue with a broad read peak(cool whites), or primarily a broad red with a smaller blue peak(warm whites).
No matter what we see...the spectral charts till you what is actually being emitted. And the new A51's all white is a very balanced and photosynthetically tuned spectrum. White chips are the future(and present) and provide better light(spectrum and intensity) than any monochromatic panels.
Also remember...even though hps seems yellow, its considered white. So look at the spectral charts to see what is actually gong on...no matter what color us humans perceive it as.
As for blackdog...they have been around since there was little true info in the LED world. A51 has made it his goal to provide the best and honest light while still at a great price. There are have been a few sponsored blackdog grows and we only got to see the lat week(questionable)...other than that, blackdog hasn't showed any reason that they actually are better than a 1000w. Even the owner told me straight up at the max yield show that they cannot actually beat a 1000w hps. He is a really nice guy but the XL-u is just not a very good light based on the specs...and especially that price tag.
As far as expensive but actually worth it goes...Apache. They are into government and university research. They use the best quality and performing parts, and cost is a second thought. They are one of the oldest companies still around and were the original starters of white/red and all whites panels years ago. I have grown under several different W/R combos and all whites. The all whites flower just fine and mine were cool white compared to a51's warm white(lots more red than cool).
(Pic below)Under 4 all whites, 1 WR1, and 1 red/blue. I have been saying it for years, but I am glad a51 finally put it on their site...it comes down to the amount of light a plant receives, not the spectrum...and all the panels in the pic below put out the same amount of light, but in different spectrums. In conclusion, the yeild was the same for all then different lights in the end because the amount of light was the same(measured in µmols).
ThaMagnificent
Well-Known Member
So basically you don't need a totally different spectrum when going from veg to flower?
shamrockceo
Member
The only reason I've been set on getting Black Dog lights is because I've been following this guy's grow with them and the plants seem to be doing great:
http://www.youtube.com/user/oneshotgrow/videos
Also, I was planning to put 2 Black Dog XL-U lights in a 4x4 tent to try to achieve the same, or a little better results as a 1000w hps. If I can do the same with Area 51 and have the total cost for lights be much cheaper, then I'm all for it, haha. Up until this point, from my limited research of about 3 weeks, Black Dog was the best light I had found so far. If Area 51 can really give the same or better performance for a much cheaper cost, then this is a breakthrough, lol.
Essentially, my goal is to have two 4x4 tents, one for veg/mothers/clones, and one for flowering. I want to veg from clone for 2 weeks, then flower for 8 weeks, harvesting every 2 weeks. Can I do this using only Area 51 lights? How many 2014 Area 51's do I need in a 4x4 tent to achieve the same quality and yield as a 1000w hps? Can that even be done?
Thanks.
Balke Buds
Member
Haven't seen anything on the KIND lights.
Anyone have any experience with them?
On edit: link to companyhttp://www.kindledgrowlights.com/
Anyone have any experience with them?
On edit: link to companyhttp://www.kindledgrowlights.com/
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
At 700mA 50c, the very best warm white LEDs can reach 40% efficient. The very best reds 48% and blues 55%. The most expensive commercial lamps are nowhere close to those numbers but it makes the point if you want more photons, all white is not the way to go. In addition, it seems like all white LED grows end up with leafy buds that look like outdoor when compared to HPS nugs. I have noticed this in my own grows using identical cuttings when I tried to reduce blues/reds and increase whites.
All-white will get the job done, but since LED is so customizable I figure we might as well get the spectrum dialed in.
Buddha Tahoe OG under red/blue/white LED
Same cutting under 600 HPS
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I didn't mean to sound like spectrum is completely pointless. I was trying to say that quanta is first then spectrum is second, and that a51 was hitting both of them pretty well. The goal to me is to marry the two to meet the plants requirements, and you will get the best results.
I am a fan of white with additional red myself. Touching on efficiency as you mentioned, it is a better way to keep the quanta up and still create a very photosynthetically targeted spectrum so that as much of that light as possible is used.
I know what you are saying about all whites and leafy buds. Similar to a mh vs hps. I think that the it could also be related to intensity. I really noticed a difference in flower size and quality when I tried to expand without enough to keep the intensity up. I ran R/B and W/R on the same run, but there wasn't a big difference in flowers(all went in the same bag), but was in growth rates...noticeably shorter. I only have W/R left now, but you are making me wish I still had one to test.
I am a fan of white with additional red myself. Touching on efficiency as you mentioned, it is a better way to keep the quanta up and still create a very photosynthetically targeted spectrum so that as much of that light as possible is used.
I know what you are saying about all whites and leafy buds. Similar to a mh vs hps. I think that the it could also be related to intensity. I really noticed a difference in flower size and quality when I tried to expand without enough to keep the intensity up. I ran R/B and W/R on the same run, but there wasn't a big difference in flowers(all went in the same bag), but was in growth rates...noticeably shorter. I only have W/R left now, but you are making me wish I still had one to test.
gachogavacho
New Member
If you ask me, these lights are super over priced compared to what else i'm seeing in the market. expensive does not necessarily mean there is not an equivalent product for, fuck, less than half?