Total Noob using teas and I am a believer

Trousers

Trousers

Well-Known Member
A one "l" Lama he's a priest
A two "l" LLama he's a beast.
I'll bet a silk pajama there is no such thing as a three "l" LLLama.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
My lil brothers neighbor has an alpaca farm. The guano they use made the apple on the apple tree turn upside down and prey. Not much npk, but enough. Worked great. I used it a couple times when he brought some down. But I try not to use any guano or manure. Cow and alpaca have 3 stomachs so their manure processes differently. When composted, it becomes probiotic..
 
May11th

May11th

Well-Known Member
Gandalf what do your teas measure out to after brewing, like ph/ppms. Im trying to figure out if im okay. I think I been underfeeding my ladies. My soils are between 6.2-7.2 , im glad to have this peat mosses acidity up to 6.2.

Trousers, im not currently running smartpots but might wish I would of. My pots aren't drying out as fast as I like. Its been 4 days since I watered and tomorrow looks like I may not have to again,3-5 gal containers at that. Wonder if this is bad? The soil seems even from top to bottom for dampness, its not showing signs of overfed, may be due to my temps being 50-60°. Im just used to giving them water every 3 or so days.
 
Mad Hamish

Mad Hamish

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
So Hamish, I want to learn more about your organic-hydro method that you're about to embark on. Specifically as it relates to our microscopic friends in the soil.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. If you're using an ebb and flow system, I will assume that microbes will be present in whatever medium you're using, correct? They wouldn't do much good, and may have a tough time surviving long stretches in a reservoir. Is their a specific type of medium that would be well suited for this? I don't think hydroton wouldn't work well, and I would imagine that rockwool wouldn't work either. Would you use well rinsed coco coir for this? Also, wouldn't a bunch of them get flushed when the table drains? Is this something where you'd constantly have to be re-inoculating your medium?

I guess keeping a tea well oxygenated in a reservoir for weeks at a time is do-able, but I'm kinda stumped on how this all comes together. Either way it's a really interesting topic
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Here we have a LOT of points I am mulling over myself. I can NOT under-state my surprise at Genuity's rig! Also when Gandalf pulled it off, I was blown out of my seat. I couldn't believe it.

So let me stress that what I intend to do is definitely on the fringe of growing. Edge City. There is very little science backing it up. All I know right now, is that I saw two successes and I'll be damned if I don't explore this.

Some of my thoughts so far:

Microbes do more than feed plants. They work on conditioning the soil, down to the microscopic level, right. When they start FEEDING the plant (with exception of fungi, who help channel all the nutrients to the roots) they are dead. All the nutes are locked inside their little bodies, and this is part of what makes them good for the soil, they immobilise elements and prevent them from washing out the soil down to the water table.

What I suspect (I NEED MY MICROSCOPE!!!) is happening in Organic Hydro is that they do NOT survive at all. In soil, we need pretty infrequent feeds of ACT to keep populations strong. But it is still the DEAD microbes that really make sure the food is available. This is why ACT provides such a strong nute boost, but only for a short time, until our soil becomes TRULY alive.

What I mean with TRULY alive is this: A leaf drops to the soil surface, and it is GONE in 3 days. This is what Microbe Man considers a TRULY alive soil. He also feels it takes YEARS to get there. I just read this yesterday, I will go look for the thread and copy-paste it here. Actually, Stow, I think you commented on said thread, not too sure but I think so...

So once again, my SUSPICION is that most microbes die off. Cell walls are probably broken down by anaerobes, or perhaps the agitation caused by the bubbles, or something similar. And in doing so, actually dying, they make a lot of nutrient instantly available to the plant. One solo cup tea per gallon, it is not much. BUT Genuity does make sure it stays topped up. Using up to a gallon of ACT per week in his rigs. So we can view this as quite a lot of microbes being added constantly.

So in a sense, it is still quite the opposite of a living soil. I don't think anything stays alive in there for very long mate. And oddly enough I think it is exactly this that makes it tick along.

In other words, it requires an abandonment of the LOS kind of thinking. Anaerobes like Lacto B need to be harnassed effectively too. Chelation will only occur for that short time that the microbes are active.

The latter point is a reason why I think Hydroton and Rockwool will work a bit better than DWC even. Tons of nooks and crannies in the rough Hydroton, and it holds Hygroscopic Water, which we all know is the stuff microbes move around in. Just a tiny bit longer survival at least. MAX chelation if using an all-purpose tea for example.

Many issues will arise of course. Res and substrate temps will need to be kept low low low. 15 degrees C and under methinks. And one will have to get used to not seeing pearly white roots. I think a lot of algae will start having quite the field day. So we will have to look at those simple organisms also. Take algae into consideration while exploring organic hydro.

And we will have to harnass The Borg... Trichoderma can survive in hydroton no hassle. It can serve the same purposes as fungi. Matter of fact, most of the time when you think your store-bought Mycorrhizal Fungi are helping you out, it is Trichoderma. The stuff is in all the Myco mixes just about. BUT IT EATS FUNGI. It will destroy ALL mycos. All true ones at least.

Only person I know FOR SURE that has strong myco-dominant soils is Java. He gets FRUITING BODIES! With The Borg around, this will not happen.

Anyhow, like I said, this whole idea of Organic Hydro is right on the fringe of cannabis growing. Welcome to Edge City. I have decided to keep my experiments SMALL to start. I am getting ready to run my first 2nd gen soils now. LOS is still going to be a long road for me. I am not going to rush this, particularly after finding out how long it takes to get it TRULY ALIVE.
 
Mad Hamish

Mad Hamish

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
Can you at least get rice hulls? Pumice?
Click to expand...
LOL... If you knew in exactly how far an outlying region I live, you would not bother asking that my friend. All rice is also imported. I guess I can get rice hulls at the nurseries in the main centres no problem. BUT... I literally have everything shipped. Coco, perlite, you name it. Perlite is light so it doesn't cost that much to ship, pumice, no way, not gonna go there. I was just super curious for the next time I go to a big centre and hit up the nurseries. The Great MicrobeMan opened my eyes yesterday evening... I am not going to be buying ANYTHING for my soil mixes any longer. I am using what is on my land from now on. I have everything I need, including the patience it is going to take, to copy some of his mixes to the letter.
I will have to wait a long time for the new mixes to be ready. But I have the time. I did a few soil cooks, HUGE ones, over the last few months. I realised yesterday that I am a stone's throw away from my first second generation runs. Then it will be a circle. FINALLY. I am stoked!
 
GandalfdaGreen

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
Mad Hamish said:
Here we have a LOT of points I am mulling over myself. I can NOT under-state my surprise at Genuity's rig! Also when Gandalf pulled it off, I was blown out of my seat. I couldn't believe it.

So let me stress that what I intend to do is definitely on the fringe of growing. Edge City. There is very little science backing it up. All I know right now, is that I saw two successes and I'll be damned if I don't explore this.

Some of my thoughts so far:

Microbes do more than feed plants. They work on conditioning the soil, down to the microscopic level, right. When they start FEEDING the plant (with exception of fungi, who help channel all the nutrients to the roots) they are dead. All the nutes are locked inside their little bodies, and this is part of what makes them good for the soil, they immobilise elements and prevent them from washing out the soil down to the water table.

What I suspect (I NEED MY MICROSCOPE!!!) is happening in Organic Hydro is that they do NOT survive at all. In soil, we need pretty infrequent feeds of ACT to keep populations strong. But it is still the DEAD microbes that really make sure the food is available. This is why ACT provides such a strong nute boost, but only for a short time, until our soil becomes TRULY alive.

What I mean with TRULY alive is this: A leaf drops to the soil surface, and it is GONE in 3 days. This is what Microbe Man considers a TRULY alive soil. He also feels it takes YEARS to get there. I just read this yesterday, I will go look for the thread and copy-paste it here. Actually, Stow, I think you commented on said thread, not too sure but I think so...

So once again, my SUSPICION is that most microbes die off. Cell walls are probably broken down by anaerobes, or perhaps the agitation caused by the bubbles, or something similar. And in doing so, actually dying, they make a lot of nutrient instantly available to the plant. One solo cup tea per gallon, it is not much. BUT Genuity does make sure it stays topped up. Using up to a gallon of ACT per week in his rigs. So we can view this as quite a lot of microbes being added constantly.

So in a sense, it is still quite the opposite of a living soil. I don't think anything stays alive in there for very long mate. And oddly enough I think it is exactly this that makes it tick along.

In other words, it requires an abandonment of the LOS kind of thinking. Anaerobes like Lacto B need to be harnassed effectively too. Chelation will only occur for that short time that the microbes are active.

The latter point is a reason why I think Hydroton and Rockwool will work a bit better than DWC even. Tons of nooks and crannies in the rough Hydroton, and it holds Hygroscopic Water, which we all know is the stuff microbes move around in. Just a tiny bit longer survival at least. MAX chelation if using an all-purpose tea for example.

Many issues will arise of course. Res and substrate temps will need to be kept low low low. 15 degrees C and under methinks. And one will have to get used to not seeing pearly white roots. I think a lot of algae will start having quite the field day. So we will have to look at those simple organisms also. Take algae into consideration while exploring organic hydro.

And we will have to harnass The Borg... Trichoderma can survive in hydroton no hassle. It can serve the same purposes as fungi. Matter of fact, most of the time when you think your store-bought Mycorrhizal Fungi are helping you out, it is Trichoderma. The stuff is in all the Myco mixes just about. BUT IT EATS FUNGI. It will destroy ALL mycos. All true ones at least.

Only person I know FOR SURE that has strong myco-dominant soils is Java. He gets FRUITING BODIES! With The Borg around, this will not happen.

Anyhow, like I said, this whole idea of Organic Hydro is right on the fringe of cannabis growing. Welcome to Edge City. I have decided to keep my experiments SMALL to start. I am getting ready to run my first 2nd gen soils now. LOS is still going to be a long road for me. I am not going to rush this, particularly after finding out how long it takes to get it TRULY ALIVE.
Click to expand...

  • You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mad Hamish again.




 
GandalfdaGreen

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
May11th said:
Gandalf what do your teas measure out to after brewing, like ph/ppms. Im trying to figure out if im okay. I think I been underfeeding my ladies. My soils are between 6.2-7.2 , im glad to have this peat mosses acidity up to 6.2.

Trousers, im not currently running smartpots but might wish I would of. My pots aren't drying out as fast as I like. Its been 4 days since I watered and tomorrow looks like I may not have to again,3-5 gal containers at that. Wonder if this is bad? The soil seems even from top to bottom for dampness, its not showing signs of overfed, may be due to my temps being 50-60°. Im just used to giving them water every 3 or so days.
Click to expand...
The exact ppms I use are somewhere in this monster. I honestly don't even check ph or ppms anymore now that I have done the teas so many times now. I don't know how to find the exact numbers I used as my template. I'll try to find it. :eyesmoke:
 
May11th

May11th

Well-Known Member
Ill give ya a reach around for the good info gandalf lol your numbers would be great. Your plants are so healthy all the time and im tired of being a lil off lol
 
GandalfdaGreen

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
I popped some new beans from a few strains and breeders that I have been dying to try. No set journaling here as I am really just playing around. I am chilling from testers until the spring I think. The new strains are:

1. MTG Covelo Sour Diesel...2 beans
2. MTG Stoney Creek OG...2 beans
3. Bodhi Sunshine Daydream...4 beans
4. Bodhi Lucky Charms...5 beans....sorry st0w
5. SinCity NightFire OG...2 beans
6. SinCity Nightmare OG...2 beans
7. SinCity Alien's Jacked Up...1 bean

Everything is above the surface and is under the Tek 2 lamps as of last night. The only one not above the surface is the SinCity AJU. It will show up I think. It did pop it's tail. I started the whole process last Friday evening. I am really excited to see the quality of these breeders. I know Bodhi is a slam dunk. I have had a hard on for MTG for sometime now.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I have never heard of anyone checking ppm's for teas and especially pure organics. I never check ppm's or ph. That has no place in pure living organics. Recreating mother nature to what happens naturally in the forests. For hydro yeah, manipulating plant growth by making short cuts for plants not being grown to full potential.
 
RedCarpetMatches

RedCarpetMatches

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
I have never heard of anyone checking ppm's for teas and especially pure organics. I never check ppm's or ph. That has no place in pure living organics. Recreating mother nature to what happens naturally in the forests. For hydro yeah, manipulating plant growth by making short cuts for plants not being grown to full potential.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with you for once lol! My tap is 300-400 PPM and I no longer buy RO water around the corner. You mentioned aloe replacing ProTekt on another thread...want to understand why guy. Does it have more silica aka the missing macro? I'm also slowly converting to a "hybrid" no till, and would love to know if compost has enough Si already. I did notice a big difference with ProTekt when it came to super cropping (my fav). They healed quicker.
 
GandalfdaGreen

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
I have never heard of anyone checking ppm's for teas and especially pure organics. I never check ppm's or ph. That has no place in pure living organics. Recreating mother nature to what happens naturally in the forests. For hydro yeah, manipulating plant growth by making short cuts for plants not being grown to full potential.
Click to expand...

I did it in the beginning just to get a feel of where my tea strength was. I don't do a thing to the ph. Now that I know what tea strengths each pheno loves to thrive in I am all set. When I first began using teas I made them way too strong for what I was growing and scarred them very badly.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
I actually agree with you for once lol! My tap is 300-400 PPM and I no longer buy RO water around the corner. You mentioned aloe replacing ProTekt on another thread...want to understand why guy. Does it have more silica aka the missing macro? I'm also slowly converting to a "hybrid" no till, and would love to know if compost has enough Si already. I did notice a big difference with ProTekt when it came to super cropping (my fav). They healed quicker.
Click to expand...
for one pro tekt is a chem nutrient not organic. Silica, iron, phos, potassium, zinc, sulfur, selenium, etc... Varies from among different species of aloe. Typically its upwards of 30% silica. Compost has enough everything along with castings (VC).
 
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