First Grow - Looking for suggestions and advice

[IHateBuyingWeed]

As the subject admits, this is my first grow but it has been a dream of mine since I read my first High Times almost 20 years ago. Anywho, all the sap aside I am growing in a closet garden. I soaked some bagseed for 24 hours and then planted them in pre-soaked rockwool cubes. Once they sprouted (100%) I started them on wet-dry cycle, according to weight, to get the roots to stretch. I would dip the cubes' bottom sides in fresh, pH balanced water. Then, I came across a video that showed how to start seedlings in grow trays with oxygenated water. I switched to that method and the seedlings are now 10 days old (pics displayed). I gave them 150 ppm of Botanicare PowerPlant 3-1-4 and one of the seedlings showed nutrient burn on the ends of the leaf blades so I changed the water only adding 100 ppm of nutrients and everything has been fine so far. The seedlings are currently under a 2 ft. and a 3 ft. fluorescent light fixture with T5s on for 24 hours. Eight of the 11 remaining seedlings (some perished along the way) will go into two American Agritech Aero 4 Machines, which hold 4 plants each. The other 3 are going into a 2 gallon reservoir, drip system with hydroton as the medium. All will be vegged under a 400w MH and flowered under a 400w HPS. Some are showing promising root development, as the pics indicate, whereas others are kind of lagging IMO. Additionally, those with the fewest exposed roots seem to be suffering from over watering. I guess the lack of exposed roots is preventing the plant from getting enough oxygen. Those have been put back on the wet-dry cycle to allow the roots to stretch. At this point I ultimately need to know when I should transplant the seedlings into the systems? Also if I have or may very possibly do something incorrectly as a beginner, please feel free to correct me.

 

[NorthofEngland]

I'm doing my first grow - after 20 years of it being a major ambition.
So I know where you're coming from.

I bought 9 cuttings and put them in 18lt pots of clay pebbles
over a Wilma ebb & flow hydro
under a 600w dual spectrum light
in a 4 x 4 x 6' tent......

Next time I intent to start from seed SO I'll be paying special attention to your thread and your efforts.

So far it all looks to be going great!
Those seedlings are the picture of healthy vitality and I look forward to regular progress reports - with photographic assistance.

How did you accumulate the knowledge to start all this?
From reading books, websites and forums....
Or from being connected to experienced growers?
Maybe a little of both....?

Anyway
Good luck.
You appear to be off to a flying start.

P

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

I'm doing my first grow - after 20 years of it being a major ambition.
So I know where you're coming from.

I bought 9 cuttings and put them in 18lt pots of clay pebbles
over a Wilma ebb & flow hydro
under a 600w dual spectrum light
in a 4 x 4 x 6' tent......

Next time I intent to start from seed SO I'll be paying special attention to your thread and your efforts.

So far it all looks to be going great!
Those seedlings are the picture of healthy vitality and I look forward to regular progress reports - with photographic assistance.

How did you accumulate the knowledge to start all this?
From reading books, websites and forums....
Or from being connected to experienced growers?
Maybe a little of both....?

Anyway
Good luck.
You appear to be off to a flying start.

P

Then congrats are in order for you as well. As far as knowledge, I like to read and conduct research on the internet. I downloaded a few books and have been cross-referencing different growers' techniques with others to find a common ground. I am finding that there are many different methods pertaining to light cycles, nutrient strengths, humidity levels, and temperatures, etc. to germinate, vegetate, and flower. A good website I can recommend is http://growweedeasy.com/marijuana-symptoms which provided me with a lot of information pertaining to nutrient deficiencies and other problems. As beginners, I'm sure we will face our fare share. I was also fortunate enough to find a hydro shop with a really cool owner. I will most definitely post pics of progress but first and foremost I would like some input as to when I should transplant. I am soooo ready to get the real show on the road. My brother kind of rekindled the old dream in me by starting a few of his own that are just going into 12/12 light cycle. He got lucky by getting what are IMO seeds of an indica dominant variety. The leaf blades are real fat and the plant is squat and dark green. (Pics Below). He is growing in coco soil so he really didnt have much advise to offer me.

 

[NorthofEngland]

Hi IHateBuying.....(Do you answer to a shorter name?)
If you click on the first icon above the message space - it's a A/A looking thing, you can use paragraphs and the usual aspects of written English that our generation is so attached to.
My first posts were one paragraph affairs and I hated them!

Those plants look very healthy.

Mine are far more scraggly and beat up.
A full week shocking the hell out of the roots by following my cousins advise and 'just follow a simple recipe....'.
That advise only works if you're absolutely certain about your ingredients,
My 0.5 EC tap water was an unknown factor....

Now I do twice daily EC and pH tests and keep everything within strict parameters.

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

Haha I'll break everything up in paragraph form from here on out, and you can refer to me as IHBW if that's cool.

The funny thing about my brothers plants is that he is growing in a rather non-sterile environment yet the plants seem to be thriving. He is not controlling temp, humidity, ppm/ec, or anything. Though he did recently run into a pH issue with his coco soil so he had to flush the plants but he got it under control.

For the next week we are having house guests so I am pretty much unable to do anything right now as far as transplanting into my machines. The 3rd set of leaves is just starting to pop out on all of the plants so I am pretty sure they are ready to go plus the roots are developing nicely. Thursday is the go day. No house guests = transplant time.

As far as pH, I am not concerned with it right now because I backed off of nutrients until they go into their final home. No nutrients to eat, no pH to worry about as far as I am reading.

Updated pics below.

 

[NorthofEngland]

They're some STRONG looking roots fighting their way out of the rockwool!
Did you use Rhizotonic or H&G Root Stimulator?

As I've already mentioned, I've never started seeds.
Around here everyone buys cutting off each other BUT I want to be self sufficient AND grow different strains to the ones usually available
So I hope you don't mind me asking questions....?

The Rock Wool cubes (1 x 1"?)
What are they floating in?
The equipment AND the composition of the liquid, please.

Basically I want you to talk me through starting seeds to reaching the point when they can be transplanted into clay pebbles on an ebb and flow hydro system.
With a special interest in the actual equipment you use, if that's OK, IHBW?

Paul

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

The way I started these seeds is as follows:

1. Put 6 seeds in a damp paper towel inside of a clear-plastic, sandwich bag. The plastic bag was placed above a lamp to add a little warmth.

2. As an experiment, after 2 days I soaked 10 other seeds in a cup of faucet water for 24-hrs to soften them up.

3. I pre-soaked 16 1" x 1" rockwool cubes in water balanced to a 5.5 pH because I read that the lime used to make the rockwool (or melted and spun rock) will make the pH rise after water is introduced.

4. After the 10 seeds soaked for 24-hours I placed them all (16 seeds) in their own 1" x 1" rockwool cube.


5. I placed the cubes in a black cloning tray (10" x 20") with no water in the bottom and a clear dome on the top to retain humidity. Apparently clones and seedlings require up to 100% humidity to thrive. I would open the vents on the dome or just take it off for about 10-15 minutes a day to let the seedlings breathe. I placed a heating pad under the tray to add warmth.

6. After the sprouts started showing (1-3 days) I permanently removed the dome. I added light in the form of a 2' fluorescent no more than 2" above the plants.

7. I watered the plants by soaking the bottoms of the cubes in a bowl of tap water. I didn't pH balance the water because, as my previous post mentioned, I read that if the seedlings are not taking nutrients the pH of the water does not matter. I would sink the cube in about halfway and keep them dunked for about 10 seconds. What I did was weigh a dry cube (4 grams roughly) and then weighed it again after it was soaked for a half hour (50 grams +/-). That gave me a general idea as to how much water the cubes needed when it came time to water. I would let them get down to as low as 9 grams (1 to 1.5 days without watering) with no signs of under-watering. This wet-dry cycle forced the roots to stretch out of the cubes looking for water.

7. After the tap roots were showing through the bottoms of the cubes, I added water to the tray about 3/4 of the way up the cubes. I found this method on a Youtube video and the gentleman explained that as long as the stem is out of the water and the roots are under, the plants will be fine. I did, as advised, put two 12" air stones in the bottom of the tray to oxygenate the water. Without oxygen the roots will suffocate and die. They need plenty of oxygen.

8. I top the tray up to my water line once every 1 to 1.5 days. This is where I am so far. Although, I did add a 3' fluorescent light with 2 T5 bulbs for more light.

Its worth noting again that 3 of the plants did not have an extensive root system before I put them in water, which caused them to show signs of over-watering because they were not getting enough oxygen via water. I pulled the 3 out of the tray and started them on another wet-dry cycle for a few days until I saw a lot more roots coming out of the cubes.

The one seedling with the most roots was a fluke IMO. I accidentally broke off the tip of its tap root when the root was about 2-3cm long. I think this is what has caused all of the roots to come out of other parts of the cube in abundance.

I assume you would just leave the seedlings in the tray of water until they are ready to be transplanted into whatever medium you would put your clones in.

I hope this helps you out when you go on a seed adventure. I am using bagseed right now but after I get my technique down as far as climate control and aeroponic system knowledge I will be ordering some quality seed. I am thinking Pineapple Chunk. It sounds really nice.

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

I did state in a previous post that I added 150 ppm of Botanicare PowerPlant 3-1-4 and one of the seedlings showed nutrient burn on the ends of the leaf blades. Then, I changed the water only adding 100 ppm of nutrients. After the 100 ppm, I have only been topping off with plain old tap water. On my next go round I will only use tap water until the plants go into the growing systems, about 2-3 weeks.

 

[NorthofEngland]

I did state in a previous post that I added 150 ppm of Botanicare PowerPlant 3-1-4 and one of the seedlings showed nutrient burn on the ends of the leaf blades. Then, I changed the water only adding 100 ppm of nutrients. After the 100 ppm, I have only been topping off with plain old tap water. On my next go round I will only use tap water until the plants go into the growing systems, about 2-3 weeks.

Yes - You did mention that.
In fact it was the 'nute burn' comment that grabbed my attention, as I was going through the exact same predicament.

Bagseed....?
This term is not one that is used in UK and I'm not familiar with it.
From your context I'm guessing that Bagseed is seeds from some grass you've previously smoked?
Is this correct?

I intend to buy some Dinafem Critical + seeds (but they're damned expensive!)
But, as everyone is eager to explain, 'You get what you pay for....'.
And, considering the potential value of the finished harvest, the price of the seeds promises an amazing return on the initial investment.

I'll most probably be copying your method for germination - except snapping off the tap root.
I haven't the balls to try that manoeuvre, just yet.
Lucky accident though....

P

 

[newtogrowneedhelp]

Hi, I would like some opinions on using hydroponics versus other systems. What I had in mind is using something like this here: http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=713 . I know this is an expensive way to start but do you think I would be able to produce 4-8 oz per plant using this system? Is there anything else I would need besides the clones to start this? Would you have a rough idea of an electric bill with just this system? Would I be able to harvest within 3 months? I would like to start with a good strain with high yield potential that can be done start to finish in 3 months. Your thoughts and ideas are very much appreciated.

 

[NorthofEngland]

1 - Hi-jacking someone else's thread to bombard the OP with questions is bad form.
2 - There are far too many variables to try and guess how much you could grow OR how long it would take.

If you really want to try then start a small, simple operation.
Learn how to control pH and EC levels, read the plants responses - and adjust accordingly.

Then, after a few crops, you'll not have to ask 'How much....' 'How long....'.
You'll have an idea of your own abilities.

I don't know if you'll produce (aka GROW) 4 to 8 oz with that system and, to be perfectly honest, I don't care.

Every day theres at least two of these idiotic questions:

How long will it take me to learn Chinese?
If I eat noodles every day will I learn any faster?

Start a thread that deals with your own shit.

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

Yes - You did mention that.
In fact it was the 'nute burn' comment that grabbed my attention, as I was going through the exact same predicament.

Bagseed....?
This term is not one that is used in UK and I'm not familiar with it.
From your context I'm guessing that Bagseed is seeds from some grass you've previously smoked?
Is this correct?

I intend to buy some Dinafem Critical + seeds (but they're damned expensive!)
But, as everyone is eager to explain, 'You get what you pay for....'.
And, considering the potential value of the finished harvest, the price of the seeds promises an amazing return on the initial investment.

I'll most probably be copying your method for germination - except snapping off the tap root.
I haven't the balls to try that manoeuvre, just yet.
Lucky accident though....

P

I wouldn't advise about the tap root either, although, it has peeked my curiosity. I'll probably try it on a seedling on my next go round, and yes, bagseed is a term I picked up off of the forums for plain old seeds from a bag of anything.

I am encountering my first issues. I think I am facing a nutrient deficiency or nutrient deficiencies. As the pictures below show, the new growth on 2 or 3 of the plants is very yellow and my prize of the seedlings has a brown spot the size of a ballpoint pin head forming on two of the leaves. From what I am reading it seems to be a boron deficiency due to a lack of nitrogen and potassium as well as high pH.

Well my pH is around 7.3, which I know is high if I were feeding them but I am not. Not yet anyways. This leads me to believe they are big enough now that they need food. The shitty part is that I cant do anything about it until Thanksgiving Day when the house guests fuck off lol. That's definitely not in the Holiday spirit. When they kindly fuck off. That's better lmao. I'm totally joking of course. Anyways, if any experienced growers can provide me with some consolation by telling me that my plants will be ok for another day it would be greatly appreciated. I feel like a new dad with some sick kids.

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

Hi, I would like some opinions on using hydroponics versus other systems. What I had in mind is using something like this here: http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=713 . I know this is an expensive way to start but do you think I would be able to produce 4-8 oz per plant using this system? Is there anything else I would need besides the clones to start this? Would you have a rough idea of an electric bill with just this system? Would I be able to harvest within 3 months? I would like to start with a good strain with high yield potential that can be done start to finish in 3 months. Your thoughts and ideas are very much appreciated.

I'm a beginner myself man. What I would do is start a new thread asking the same questions you just asked here so you can get some expert advice. However, I am under the impression the only things discussed in the forums is how to care for your plants and assistance with things of that nature. A far as yield, I would say it depends on the type of strain and the care you put into the grow room IMO. But again I am a beginner myself.

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

Time for an update if anyone is still following.

All 11 seedlings are planted in their respective systems under a 400w MH.

I added nutrients at the "Mild Vegetative" level posted on the bottles, which equates to 1 tsp/gallon of The Flora 3 Series Grow, Micro, and Bloom. The plants are not showing any signs of nutrient burns at this point and the new growth is really green. The plants are not growing as fast as I thought but I think they are still getting their foothold in the hydroton.

Reservoir temps are in the 80's, which I know is high so I am currently freezing four 2-liter soda bottles of water. I will place 1 in each of the two aero reservoirs and swap them out with freshly frozen bottles as needed.

I'm not sure why but my light seems to play hell on my phone camera hence the fuzzy lines throughout the pics.

 

[Shineshack]

looking good, im eager to see your pictures, and i just have to say that im not sure if your thre in the one bucket will get as big as you want tryed that same action and got nice plants they were just smaller that the rest of the harvest. get you some neem oil and treat foliarly as it will greatly decease any chance at disease as well as help with nutrient uptake. dont for get to cut some clones before you send it to flowering and have a good grow

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

looking good, im eager to see your pictures, and i just have to say that im not sure if your thre in the one bucket will get as big as you want tryed that same action and got nice plants they were just smaller that the rest of the harvest. get you some neem oil and treat foliarly as it will greatly decease any chance at disease as well as help with nutrient uptake. dont for get to cut some clones before you send it to flowering and have a good grow

Thanks Shine. I am thinking that 1 or 2 in the bucket will be male but if all 3 are female I will not be disappointed lol. I am positively hoping that I get 6 to 8 females for a pretty decent yield on my first rodeo. I will most definitely post updated pics along the way. I should be going to flower a week from this Friday. I can't wait!!

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

Day 20) Here is an update. The plants are looking good so far although I did have to clip off a few dead or severely dying leaves from a previous nutrient deficiency and/or burn.

Another thing that is happening is the leaves are drooping 2-3 hours before lights out (18/6 schedule) but in the morning and all day they are reaching for the light. Just curious, is this the plant knowing that its about time to sleep or is this abnormal?

I initially set the pH of all 3 reservoirs at 5.5 because I had such an upward shift while the seedlings (in rockwool) were in the water tray. However, the pH is holding very very stable in the reservoirs. Now, I don't know if this is normal or if the pH should naturally fluctuate. I did bring it up to 6.3 across the board because I saw that I was locking out Magnesium and Phosphorus. Everything is looking good as far as no nutrient burns or deficiencies so far.

As previously noted, I added nutrients according to the label on the Flora 3 Series at the Mild Vegetative level. The ppm is not going up or down but is holding steady at 780 to 800 though I started with tap water filtered once leaving 200 ppm. So, my guess is this is occurring because very few of the plants' roots have made it out of the hydroton into the reservoir yet. They are slowly finding their way out and eating very little along the way or so it seems.

My res temps are steady at 80 to 85 and I know this is a NO-NO but I am adding H2O2 daily at 5ml/gallon and nothing unwanted has started growing in the reservoirs yet. I will do my first cleaning and water replacement this Friday night with, I am glad to say, RO water out of my new RO system that arrives tomorrow. Ya-freaking-hoo!! I feel like a kid again.

Below are top and side shots of each plant along with a shot of the early branching that has begun on one of the plants. And again, any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[fim]

Hey for the temp of the reservoir, can you maybe put some jugs of water in the freezer/fridge (if freezer, remember to pour some water out first because it will expand) and then dunk those in your reservoir? That way you can keep it cool without actually adding the water.... and thus changing your ph/ec. Just a thought! I'm newb too man, good luck, plants look like they're doing well.

 

[IHateBuyingWeed]

Whats going on fim. Thanks for the compliment. I did freeze a couple of 2 liter bottles but one would only last in a res no more than 10 minutes before being completely melted. It just seemed as if I would need a freezer full of frozen 2 liter bottles for it to be effective. If I start to see anything going on in the reservoirs that shouldn't be, I will use the frozen bottles as often as I can. I wish I didn't have to work so I could care for my plants all day. Maybe one of these days.......

 

[fim]

hey I don't know how practical this is, but i've heard of people using large tubs of water, just in the room, as a way to maintain the heat. Or I saw someone else commented about using the ground, perhaps if you had a wider/flatter reservoir it might stay a little cooler (assuming the ground is colder). If there was more water there it would at least require more energy to change temperature. idk.