10-14 light in final 3 weeks instead of 12-12 Advice please

Mr.Grønn;6528432 said:

I'm believed so too, but look at post #4 in this thread. That started it out of the blue, and the 12-1-thing was completely news to me, so I reacted - sorry.

But I barely touched the subject myself, the rest of my post was this:

But that other idea, giving less hours of light (gradually) during flowering is something I've experimented a little with.

"
I did two grows with same mother plant.

One grow with 12/12 all the way, and one with 12/12 but then gradually down to 10/14.
It made my plants ready about 14 days earlier, but with loss of yield (maybe about 10%, was obvious to the eye anyway).
"

Flowering times are an interresting subject, and gradually reducing light and temperature during flowering (especially at the very end) is something I find appealing.

I'll use the cold of winter to my advantage the last two weeks, I'll try and see if the plant changes color (I'll not go under 17 degrees celcius, I'm a wuss).

Also, I'll try to raise the light a little last two weeks.

BTW: Where does 12/12 come from anyway, was it decided in a vote back in the 60's?

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The reason the 12-1 was mentioned here is because the 12-1 veg and decreasing light flower are generally written about together. So when people see decreasing flowering time they comment on both. Since the idea is to increase power usge and increase yield/grow time ratio (yield to power ratio). You can be assured I'll not bother you with my comments again.

stick with the 12/12 man if it aint broke don't fix it

snew said:

The reason the 12-1 was mentioned here is because the 12-1 veg and decreasing light flower are generally written about together. So when people see decreasing flowering time they comment on both. Since the idea is to increase power usge and increase yield/grow time ratio (yield to power ratio). You can be assured I'll not bother you with my comments again.

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Really?
So when people hear about this 12-1-veg-schedule for the very first time, they automatically think about flowering-schedules? That's bull, and I belive that you already know that.

I've been lurking on cannabis forums the last 3 years (I'm unemployed, so I do it a lot), so I can call your bluff.

The 12-1-veg thing and flowering schedueles are two very separate things, and if you cannot absorb that then I don't mind you "not bothering me again".

I apologise for portraying negatively this 12-1-veg schedule, when I knew I should have read about the theory behind it first. I still don't know much about it, but I don't feel the need to learn it (use it).
So I am sorry for that (dissing something I don't understand).

BTW: Power to yield ratios are interresting, why not start a thread about that subject?

Mr.Grønn;6533440 said:

Really?
So when people hear about this 12-1-veg-schedule for the very first time, they automatically think about flowering-schedules? That's bull, and I belive that you already know that.

I've been lurking on cannabis forums the last 3 years (I'm unemployed, so I do it a lot), so I can call your bluff.

The 12-1-veg thing and flowering schedueles are two very separate things, and if you cannot absorb that then I don't mind you "not bothering me again".

I apologise for portraying negatively this 12-1-veg schedule, when I knew I should have read about the theory behind it first. I still don't know much about it, but I don't feel the need to learn it (use it).
So I am sorry for that (dissing something I don't understand).

BTW: Power to yield ratios are interresting, why not start a thread about that subject?

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http://www.treatingyourself.com/treatingyourself/images/issues/pdfs/issue28.pdf, p. 84
http://www.treatingyourself.com/treatingyourself/images/issues/pdfs/issue25.pdf, p. 77

Both of these articles address both 12-1 veg and decreasing light hours in flower. Thank you

I have wondered about that, putting the bud stop technique with reduced light flowering. I cannot see where they are related other than they are both used in growrooms.
I use the 12/1 vegging because it allows the use of intense lights and syncronizes the veg and bud room cycles. That one hour of light at midnight was a stroke of genius from someone.
But tying it to reduced light in the bud cycle is not a logical step.
A gradual lessening of light as the plant's energy needs go down works as a technique, but has nothing to do with the 12/1 veg light cycle at all.

I am a lazy grower, I balance the effort from me versus any gain to be had. Changing the times almost daily and adjusting the chores to match takes effort and thought.

12/12 can be done on cruise control, same same every day and don't even have to wake up all the way.
The plant gets way more light than it needs towards the end. It was that or short the plant at the start. No brainer for me, but I do not consider electricity a variable. If my budroom is not full the light will shine on the tabletops, I do not factor in the costs when I choose techniques. Plants go in and out but the light is constant 12/12 year round.

I guess I am posting just to not put down the technique, I have inadvertantly reduced light in the past, it still worked, but I do not use the technique on purpose. Personal preference.

Phaeton said:

I have wondered about that, putting the bud stop technique with reduced light flowering. I cannot see where they are related other than they are both used in growrooms.
I use the 12/1 vegging because it allows the use of intense lights and syncronizes the veg and bud room cycles. That one hour of light at midnight was a stroke of genius from someone.
But tying it to reduced light in the bud cycle is not a logical step.
A gradual lessening of light as the plant's energy needs go down works as a technique, but has nothing to do with the 12/1 veg light cycle at all.

I am a lazy grower, I balance the effort from me versus any gain to be had. Changing the times almost daily and adjusting the chores to match takes effort and thought.

12/12 can be done on cruise control, same same every day and don't even have to wake up all the way.
The plant gets way more light than it needs towards the end. It was that or short the plant at the start. No brainer for me, but I do not consider electricity a variable. If my budroom is not full the light will shine on the tabletops, I do not factor in the costs when I choose techniques. Plants go in and out but the light is constant 12/12 year round.

I guess I am posting just to not put down the technique, I have inadvertantly reduced light in the past, it still worked, but I do not use the technique on purpose. Personal preference.

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I don't use a reducing flowering light at this time either. Not because I had any problems with it but because I have a variety of strains maturing at different times. I do run 11 on 13 off in flower at this time though not 12-12. Last year I started raising Jilly Bean. At 12-12 it seem to stagnate in flowering. I reduced to 11 light and seem to have visible flowering much quicker.
This is just my 2nd grow with 12-1 but so far it appears to be great.

in nature doesnt the hours of sunlight go down the farther you get into fall? so if you were growing outdoors when the light went to 12/12 is when it would start flowering and then in a month or so it would be 11/13 and so on and so on till the shortest day of the year. so i dont think it would really matter becasue that how it works in nature. it could possible help idk because the plant could get confused and be like how come the days are all the same. if you had a really smart plant haha. it probably doesnt matter. the plant will still grow

jesus of Cannabis said:

i am sure if it was a better light schedule the others would be using it.

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whyyy yes.... the others

Lighting schedules, much like NPK ratios are full of disinfo. Those who are followers do so without bothering to do their own research, so they get what they deserve- less than great results

Let's use 18/6 & 12/12 light schedules, which are old wives tales based on...who the fuck knows? Plants can only utilize ~ 14 hours of light energy per day. To give them more is simply a waste of electricity ($$$); 12/12 is confusing to the plant as it needs more dark period during flower. Will it flower? Of course, but is it ideal? NO! I drop from 14/10 to 12/12 for ~ 5 days, then drop to 11/13. I plan to add IR on a separate timer to give them ~ 10- 30 minutes (wattage dependent) at lights off. This fools the plant to continue growing without wasting electricity/ bulb life

I am putting my money where my mouth is. Visit my current journal to see it in action

grow plenty said:

at minus 2 hrs of presious life giving, bud growing 'light' per day, youll be looking at approx. 18% less product. so my guess is...bad idea!

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Dude your god awful at math, keep your bullshit pulled out of your ass percentages to yourself.

For starters your assuming that the only contribution to yield is light, yes I understand it is the most important but it's not the only thing. I would -rep you if I could.

So if you wanted to assume light was the only thing your looking at 42 hours of light cutting 2 hours each day. A normal month is going to generate 336 hours of light, the month you cut down is going to generate 294 hours of light. So you have a total of 630 light hours and you have lost 42 hours of light. That's less then 10%.

PetFlora said:

Lighting schedules, much like NPK ratios are full of disinfo. Those who are followers do so without bothering to do their own research, so they get what they deserve- less than great results

Let's use 18/6 & 12/12 light schedules, which are old wives tales based on...who the fuck knows? Plants can only utilize ~ 14 hours of light energy per day. To give them more is simply a waste of electricity ($$$); 12/12 is confusing to the plant as it needs more dark period during flower. Will it flower? Of course, but is it ideal? NO! I drop from 14/10 to 12/12 for ~ 5 days, then drop to 11/13. I plan to add IR on a separate timer to give them ~ 10- 30 minutes (wattage dependent) at lights off. This fools the plant to continue growing without wasting electricity/ bulb life

I am putting my money where my mouth is. Visit my current journal to see it in action

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Are you getting bigger, better end product from this light cycle?
Or do you get the same results with less electricity/bulb life used?

howdy folks
i am a member of only one 420 style forum, but i read a lot of others to see if anything cutting edge comes by. Normally i wouldnt bother even registering with another forum, but this thread gives me a headache and i cant help myself but to pop on and say some things.

this will probably get me hated on, but quite frankly this site seems to have a really high noOb ratio. dont get me wrong, the pro's (and you know who you are) really know there shiz, but you have so many that open their mouths and compost comes out. I wish i could advertise a quality forum here but that would just get me banned, lol...still like i said im only loyal to one site and if your google foo is even basic you could find it..i dont use any other alias'

grow plenty said:

at minus 2 hrs of presious life giving, bud growing 'light' per day, youll be looking at approx. 18% less product. so my guess is...bad idea!

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jesus of Cannabis said:

i am sure if it was a better light schedule the others would be using it.

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Mr.Grønn;6474017 said:

That lightning-schedule sounds fucked up, and if I didn't know better I would think someone wanted your plants to hermie (I know, it's during veg, maybe it works - but you try it first

Using a lot of darkness during light on simply does not make sense (see, even this sentence didn't make much sense

But that other idea, giving less hours of light (gradually) during flowering is something I've experimented a little with.

I did two grows with same mother plant. One grow with 12/12 all the way, and one with 12/12 but then gradually down to 10/14.
It made my plants ready about 14 days earlier, but with loss of yield (maybe about 10%, was obvious to the eye anyway).

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STILL PUFFIN said:

stick with the 12/12 man if it aint broke don't fix it

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The first is called GLR (Gas latnern routine). it was discovered accidentally (cant remember the story exactly) by outdoor cultivators looking for night time pests or some such.
basicly your giving the plant a 12-12 grow which triggers the flowing phase (read rapid growth) but the one hour of light during its dark phase destroys enough of the hormone to prevent fully entering flower.

the other is called DLR (Diminishing light routine) this informs the plant that the grow season is almost over and forces the plant to work harder in bud formation (the plant REALLY wants to breed before it dies) this is suppose to save energy and increase production.

there is an article out there focused on some serious MJ biology that informs us that 10 hours of light offeres the best bud to watt ratio and indicates further testing showed that 8 hours of light offered no benefits over 10 hours.

so in summary.
GLR Works and is an accepted method of growing.
DLR also works well.
using both of these together pretty much offers the fastest growing and most energy efficient method we have of growing MJ

a note to the mods. please see this as beneficial critisism. you need to tighten things up a little around here, it is unprofessional that the pro growers have to keep trying to shout louder than the ignorant in order for quality information to be clearly and easiliy readable on the site. at the very least you should have a few pro's on your staff to back up the casual experts propping up this forum, a few sponsors weighing in from time to time helps too.

appologies for the rant guys, were all in this together. im sure i will be edited to hell and possibly even banned for this little tirade, but it needed to be said. and unless rollitup.org improves the pleasure of being here for its experts...well there are currently better sites out there

GiGaBaNE said:

GLR Works and is an accepted method of growing.
DLR also works well.
using both of these together pretty much offers the fastest growing and most energy efficient method we have of growing MJ

a note to the mods. please see this as beneficial critisism. you need to tighten things up a little around here, it is unprofessional that the pro growers have to keep trying to shout louder than the ignorant in order for quality information to be clearly and easiliy readable on the site. at the very least you should have a few pro's on your staff to back up the casual experts propping up this forum, a few sponsors weighing in from time to time helps too.

appologies for the rant guys, were all in this together. im sure i will be edited to hell and possibly even banned for this little tirade, but it needed to be said. and unless rollitup.org improves the pleasure of being here for its experts...well there are currently better sites out there

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I've implemented it into my grow on Halloween, and the plants look healthy and vivacious. No signs of stress, only the urge to grow more. I love the routine, and it saves me 5 hours of lighting in veg, and 1 hour in flower. It makes sense to keep it as close to nature as you can, because they grow well that way. The longer it goes on, the better it will get I hope. If not I will let someone know on here I agree, sometimes it is hard to shout over the dumb accusations with people who never try something but bash it into the ground regardless. I like to try it then think it over, and maybe what I did wrong. Try before you criticize, I'm with you man.

I think its worth looking into but I don't accept it as gospel since no one is providing side by side comparisons. I think the lighting of 12/12 is the least amount of darkness to trigger flowering, and thinking that the most light it can get makes for bigger yields. And it sounds like diminishing light routine is trying to mimic nature, which indoors we don't want to mimic nature. we want to perfect nature. More thought needs to given to how much rest is optimal and how much light is optimal for the plant not your pocket. all in all I might try it side by side someday but doing it on grow at a time is not empirical. It does make sense that DLR would accelerate flower as your plant would feel winter is coming faster that 12/12

THZZELJR said:

I think its worth looking into but I don't accept it as gospel since no one is providing side by side comparisons. I think the lighting of 12/12 is the least amount of darkness to trigger flowering, and thinking that the most light it can get makes for bigger yields. And it sounds like diminishing light routine is trying to mimic nature, which indoors we don't want to mimic nature. we want to perfect nature. More thought needs to given to how much rest is optimal and how much light is optimal for the plant not your pocket. all in all I might try it side by side someday but doing it on grow at a time is not empirical. It does make sense that DLR would accelerate flower as your plant would feel winter is coming faster that 12/12

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I don't want to try to perfect nature, it's impossible. When you try doing more and more is when mutants and defects happen. I will experiment with GLR & DLR and see what happens in the long run. So far everything is normal except for one mutant AK-48 that grows an extra head. Weird little fucker. But it was mutated before I implemented any change in lighting. I probably won't do a side by side comparison because I see the results in electrical savings and growth time. It's almost identical. Even if it negates a day or two in a veg cycle I'm perfectly fine with that too. Every day I save 5 hours or more of up time. 150 hours a month, what do you pay per hour?

Tried the lesser light scheduel 11/13 weeks 6,7 of flowering now in week 8 and dropped another hour of light. Buds are good size extremely dense and covered in crystals. You possibly might lose on yield IMO but a lot of other factors to take into account. My plants were very healthy throughout the grow and am now flushing for five days will end up cutting down start of week 9. Potted 2 ak specialized from wos in 1 50l pot in coco pearl with some hydroton rtw. Started with 1000watt mh from seedling flowered under 1000 w mh, 1000 w hps, 1 600 hps and a 400 hps. Plant grew to just over 5 1/2 feet.

I posted a thread saying i was changing from 12-12 to 11 light 13 dark in the last 2 weeks to try to speed up my harvest , asked for advice and just got shit off people. Was told to change to 13 light , 11 dark by some smart arse. Good luck dude !

mousebuddha said:

I posted a thread saying i was changing from 12-12 to 11 light 13 dark in the last 2 weeks to try to speed up my harvest , asked for advice and just got shit off people. Was told to change to 13 light , 11 dark by some smart arse. Good luck dude !

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Advice is meant to be thought over. I think a lot of things over on here, listen to what they say. Get hit with a barrage of bullshit
and then do something just for the hell of it. People on here will stuff their opinions and advice down your throat and make you
change your fucking lighting schedule because that's the way they've done it, and their pa's have done it, and their pa's before
them'ns. Before any of youn's ever done come over chere. And by golly you'd better do it their fuckin' way or they'll stab ya in the throat.

I have been growing with this system for a while now, there's a book about it "a garden of peace" veg mode is 12hrs on, 5.5 off, 1hr on, 5.5 off, some unstable strains will preflower, and changing to 12,5,2,5 cures this in most. this method causes intense node production, great for clone moms, but it's not for clones. the flowering mode is start at 10 on 14 off, and drop .5 hr per month, i personally drop 15 min per week. they bud fast and hard, and speed up production time, as much as 3 weeks. i use a microscope to check ripeness, and its pretty consistent. I know it's hard to grasp for some, i was the same way, but would never go back now. major energy savings as well. try it out !