100,000 of us. and all we get is decriminalization

thelastpirate

Well-Known Member
If a single terrorist attack is carried out on Obamas watch .. his presidency will be considered a failure.


out. :blsmoke:



By whom?? Pedantic ignorant racists? No one with any intelligence would hold him responsible.
My problem is that he was given the democratic nomination by the established "good ole boy" cadre who would never in a million years put someone in office that would "rock the boat", or fuck with the status quo of
grafting riches for the elite.
 

stunned

Green Thumb of God
The system is fucked, The guy who I used to hook my weed from and a good friend of mine when I was in high school is Weldon Angelos. If you don't know who Weldon is I recommend you look him up and read about his case but here's a short blurb.

Weldon H. Angelos is a former Salt Lake City record producer serving a shocking 55 year sentence for selling several hundred dollars worth of marijuana on three seperate occassions. At the time of his arrest the 22 year old man had no criminal record. On January 9, 2006, a three judge panel of the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the verdict, concluding that it the draconian punishments reflected the will of Congress to pursue social policy. Noting that Mr. Angelos was a known gang member, the Court of Appeals concluded that his lack of a criminal record can only be attributed to luck. In effect, the judges concluded that he was guilty more because of his identity than because of his behavior.


Note: Weldon was not a gang member though he did associate with a good number of them due to his career choice. His lack of a criminal record prior to this is certainly attributed to luck though because dude was moving at least ten pounds a week for 5 or more years.
 

thelastpirate

Well-Known Member
The system is fucked, The guy who I used to hook my weed from and a good friend of mine when I was in high school is Weldon Angelos. If you don't know who Weldon is I recommend you look him up and read about his case but here's a short blurb.

Weldon H. Angelos is a former Salt Lake City record producer serving a shocking 55 year sentence for selling several hundred dollars worth of marijuana on three seperate occassions. At the time of his arrest the 22 year old man had no criminal record. On January 9, 2006, a three judge panel of the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the verdict, concluding that it the draconian punishments reflected the will of Congress to pursue social policy. Noting that Mr. Angelos was a known gang member, the Court of Appeals concluded that his lack of a criminal record can only be attributed to luck. In effect, the judges concluded that he was guilty more because of his identity than because of his behavior.


Note: Weldon was not a gang member though he did associate with a good number of them due to his career choice. His lack of a criminal record prior to this is certainly attributed to luck though because dude was moving at least ten pounds a week for 5 or more years.
That is completely and utterly fucked. I don't suppose you can give me a Westlaw citation on that case? It's true that we only pay lipservice to justice here. Look at Tommy Chong and this Weldon guy.
There has GOT to be more to it than that. Unless he's on deaths door, or a complete idiot (and they DO exist) NO judge would hand down a ruling that was certain to be overturned, and would certainly not attribute someones lack of a criminal record to luck. I'm not saying that you're wrong. Quite the opposite. Call me wierd, but I enjoy reading supreme court decisions, and how they came to be decided. THIS case would be a bestseller.
 

stunned

Green Thumb of God
Here's the part that really makes this case ridiculous. The original police report did not say anything about him having a gun during the purchases and the mandatory minimum that gave him 55 years is based on selling marijuana with a gun. The informant also said it was strapped to Weldon's ankle but unless Weldon was wearing shorts which he never did how the fuck would he know?

Here's from the court of appeals doc I linked above

District court's refusal to admit police reports
Angelos contends the district court erred in refusing to admit contemporaneous law enforcement reports of the first two controlled purchases. Although Angelos was charged with and convicted of possessing a firearm during those first two transactions, Angelos asserts that the contemporaneous law enforcement reports of those two transactions contained no mention of a firearm and thus were relevant and admissible. We review a district court's evidentiary rulings for abuse of discretion. United States v. Montague, 421 F.3d 1099, 1101 (10th Cir. 2005). Under that standard, we will reverse "only for a clearly erroneous finding of fact or an erroneous conclusion of law or . . . a clear error in judgment." Id. at 1102 (internal quotation marks omitted). At trial, the law enforcement officer who drafted the contemporaneous reports, Sergeant Mazuran, testified on direct examination that, immediately following the first two transactions, the CI reported observing Angelos in possession of a gun (the CI likewise testified to the same thing). On cross-examination by Angelos's counsel, Mazuran admitted that he failed to include this information in the contemporaneous reports he prepared.
 

SDgoonie

Well-Known Member
If the people of California can fight NO on prop 8 (same sex marriage ban) and have it go all the way to the top when majority of californians have already voted YES on it, then why can we not get this stuff legalized finally?!

LEGALIZE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

stunned

Green Thumb of God
I've never read up on his case in this detail it is crazy. I had read a few newspaper clippings but that was it. Our system is so fucked up. In reading the courts justification for this punishment not being cruel and unusual I threw up in my mouth a little. Anyone who believes in American justice and thinks the costitution stands for somehting should read this:

Eighth Amendment challenge to Angelos's sentences
Angelos, joined in an amicus brief filed by a group of individuals, including former federal judges, United States Attorneys General, and high-ranking United States Department of Justice officials, contends the district court erred in concluding that the fifty-five year sentence mandated in his case by § 924(c) did not violate the Eighth Amendment's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. We review de novo the question of whether a criminal sentence violates the Eighth Amendment. E.g., United States v. Fernandez, 388 F.3d 1199, 1258 (9th Cir. 2004); United States v. Myers, 280 F.3d 407, 416 (4th Cir. 2002).
"The Eighth Amendment . . . contains a 'narrow proportionality principle' that 'applies to noncapital sentences.'" Ewing v. California, 538 U.S. 11, 20 (2003) (quoting Harmelin v. Michigan, 501 U.S. 957, 996-97 (1991)). Under this narrow proportionality principle, the Eighth Amendment "does not require strict proportionality between crime and sentence." Id. at 23. "Rather, it forbids only extreme sentences that are 'grossly disproportionate' to the crime." Id. (quoting Harmelin, 501 U.S. at 1001 (Kennedy, J., concurring in part and concurring in the judgment)).
Although the Supreme Court has reviewed Eighth Amendment challenges to a number of state and federal sentences, it has struck down only two of them over the past century. In Weems v. United States, 217 U.S. 349, 367 (1910), the Court invalidated under the Eighth Amendment a sentence of fifteen years in chains and at hard labor, plus permanent surveillance and civil disabilities, for the crime of falsifying a public document. Seventy-three years later, in Solem v. Helm, 463 U.S. 277 (1983), the Court invalidated under the Eighth Amendment a sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole imposed under South Dakota law against a nonviolent recidivist whose final crime was writing a "no account" check with the intent to defraud.
In contrast to these two cases, the Supreme Court has rejected Eighth Amendment challenges to the following sentences:
A life sentence, with the possibility of parole, under a Texas recidivist statute for successive convictions of (1) fraudulent use of a credit card to obtain $80 worth of goods or services, (2) passing a forged check in the amount of $28.36, and (3) obtaining $120.75 by false pretenses. Rummel v. Estelle, 445 U.S. 263, 285 (1980).
A forty-year sentence for possession and distribution of 9 ounces of marijuana. Hutto v. Davis, 454 U.S. 370, 375 (1982).
A life sentence, without the possibility of parole, for possession of more than 650 grams of cocaine. Harmelin, 501 U.S. at 1005.
A twenty-five year to life sentence imposed under a California recidivist statute for the offense of felony grand theft (i.e., stealing three golf clubs worth approximately $1,200). Ewing, 538 U.S. at 30-31.
Two consecutive twenty-five-year to life sentences under a California recidivist statute for two counts of petty theft. Lockyer v. Andrade, 538 U.S. 63, 77 (2003).
Considered together, these cases clearly support the Supreme Court's recent statement in Andrade that "[t]he gross disproportionality principle reserves a constitutional violation for only the extraordinary case." 538 U.S. at 76. Applying these principles to the case at hand, we conclude that this is not an "extraordinary" case in which the sentences at issue are "grossly disproportionate" to the crimes for which they were imposed. The Supreme Court has noted that the "basic purpose" of § 924(c) is "to combat the 'dangerous combination' of 'drugs and guns.'" Muscarello v. United States, 524 U.S. 125, 126 (1998) (quoting Smith v. United States, 508 U.S. 223, 240 (1993)). The Court has also noted that "the provision's chief legislative sponsor . . . said that the provision seeks 'to persuade the man who is tempted to commit a Federal felony to leave his gun at home.'" Id. (quoting 114 Cong. Rec. 22231 (1968) (Rep. Poff)). In addition, the Court has concluded that it was entirely rational for Congress to penalize the mere presence of a firearm during a drug transaction: "Whether guns are used as the medium of exchange for drugs sold illegally or as a means to protect the transaction or dealers, their introduction into the scene of drug transactions dramatically heightens the danger to society." Smith, 508 U.S. at 239 (internal quotation marks omitted). In this same vein, the Third Circuit has held that "t is likely that Congress," in enacting § 924(c), "meant . . . to protect our communities from violent criminals who repeatedly demonstrate a willingness to employ deadly weapons by punishing them more harshly." United States v. Couch, 291 F.3d 251, 255 (3d Cir. 2002). In sum, the lengthy sentences mandated by § 924(c) were intended by Congress to (a) protect society by incapacitating those criminals who demonstrate a willingness to repeatedly engage in serious felonies while in possession of firearms, and (b) to deter criminals from possessing firearms during the course of certain felonies. Notably, both of these penological theories have been held by the Supreme Court to be valid and subject to deference by the courts. See Ewing, 538 U.S. at 24-28; Harmelin, 501 U.S. at 998-99.
 

thelastpirate

Well-Known Member
SNIP........................................................Applying these principles to the case at hand, we conclude that this is not an "extraordinary" case in which the sentences at issue are "grossly disproportionate" to the crimes for which they were imposed. The Supreme Court has noted that the "basic purpose" of § 924(c) is "to combat the 'dangerous combination' of 'drugs and guns.'" Muscarello v. United States, 524 U.S. 125, 126 (1998) (quoting Smith v. United States, 508 U.S. 223, 240 (1993)). The Court has also noted that "the provision's chief legislative sponsor . . . said that the provision seeks 'to persuade the man who is tempted to commit a Federal felony to leave his gun at home.'" Id. (quoting 114 Cong. Rec. 22231 (1968) (Rep. Poff)). In addition, the Court has concluded that it was entirely rational for Congress to penalize the mere presence of a firearm during a drug transaction: "Whether guns are used as the medium of exchange for drugs sold illegally or as a means to protect the transaction or dealers, their introduction into the scene of drug transactions dramatically heightens the danger to society." Smith, 508 U.S. at 239 (internal quotation marks omitted). In this same vein, the Third Circuit has held that "t is likely that Congress," in enacting § 924(c), "meant . . . to protect our communities from violent criminals who repeatedly demonstrate a willingness to employ deadly weapons by punishing them more harshly." United States v. Couch, 291 F.3d 251, 255 (3d Cir. 2002). In sum, the lengthy sentences mandated by § 924(c) were intended by Congress to (a) protect society by incapacitating those criminals who demonstrate a willingness to repeatedly engage in serious felonies while in possession of firearms, and (b) to deter criminals from possessing firearms during the course of certain felonies. Notably, both of these penological theories have been held by the Supreme Court to be valid and subject to deference by the courts. See Ewing, 538 U.S. at 24-28; Harmelin, 501 U.S. at 998-99.


Thanx for that. I found it.

How God Damn perverse is THAT? Here, you get 1 year and a $5000 fine for carrying a gun into a restaurant or bar. But have a gun for home defense if you grow.........................fuck me!

Our legal system is broke beyond repair. Enhanced penalties for use of a gun in the commission I might go for, but just because there is a gun in the house, would they give you the same sentence if they just busted you for possession? In deciding enhanced penalties cases , the courts are SUPPOSED to consider the totality of the circumstances surrounding the firearm, it's use (or lack thereof), and the crime that was committed.
 

Setadoon420

Active Member
The thing that really pisses me off about marijuana being illegal in the United States is that I have absolutley no "say" in the matter. In fact, NO one has any real "say" in the matter of legalization. I put say in quotations because saying things about the legalization makes the ignorant people that run the country blow us off as pot heads. But we can stand up for our rights, just as women in the early 20th century stood up, just as blacks and others in the U.S. stood up in the 60's. But we will not just be defending "civil" rights, but human rights as well. Think about this concept of what the government does. They make a substance illegal based on the effects that it has on the people, so as to make sure people do not harm others and thus society as a whole will stay in tact and relatively out of chaos.This is all good because I generally like the government and how things are done. I can understand why substances such as Heroin or Cocaine or Crystal Meth are illegal, because there are studies and physical proof as well as scientific evidence that these substances are terrible for you. But think about it. They are doing the exact same thing with marijuana. For what? I am absolutley no doctor and I do not have any medical knowledge worthy of debating, but from what I have gathered over the years, Marijuana is one of the safest "drugs" you can possibly utilize in your life. Not only does it create a sense of Euphoria, but it actually improves the quality of my life (IE music, food, interest in things). Why would a government, established by the people, make something that is harmless an illegal substance? Or continue to go against what the people (which established it in the first place) desire? Is it for profit? Is it because the government is mostly corrupt and and profits from it being illegal? If this is the case there is something Morally, Ethically, and Politically wrong with the illegalization and continuity of illegalization.

The only reason people have bad feelings about marijuana is that they have been brought up to hate and fear marijuana. They are ignorant. They have not tried it. They cannot judge what they have not experienced.
I was brought up to hate hard drugs such as cocaine and heroin, and I have not tried them. And I thank my upbringers for that. But the information that I have receieved about marijuana was wrong. And the government is wrong too.

It must be legalized.
 

BadBadBong

Active Member
Another thing that I hear on t.v repeatidly, is this credit card debt crisis that our lower and middle class families have. They are killing farm industry that the middle class man counts on, look at all the good willie nelson is trying to do there, this guy knows first hand what the banks can do to you... Basically the man thing that i have gathered is, banks loan us money with interest, that was given to them with interest on it, so the dollar that i actually am making has a negative value on it cause our government can't even pay back the interest that they owe to the Federal Reserve. so I am in a sense never going to be out of debt and am "enslaved" by the debt my government has. Right? -with peace in mind ya'll. :weed:
 

thelastpirate

Well-Known Member
Setadoon420,

You got that right. Our government is so very wrong in so may ways I really don't know WHERE to begin.

Pot is illegal due to political pressure ONLY. There was no mass uprising calling pot the devil or evil, the government made it illegal for absolutely no valid reason. And they actually had to figure out HOW they could do so, because there was no constitutional precedent for it. They came up with he idea of the tax stamp at first, planning to never issue one. So if you got busted, they had you on tax evasion.
There was a great documentary about the whole marijuana legal status thing. I THINK it was either Drug Wars, or American Drug Wars I'm not certain which. It went into great detail of how and why it was made illegal in the first place. America then proceeded to pressure our newly formed NATO allies politically so that THEY would criminalize it as well. We Americans are almost completely responsible for this mess. And we seem to cry about it the loudest.

This is a great read:

Marijuana and Hemp Story: Why Was Marijuana/Hemp Banned? (Page 5 of 10)
 

Jtoth3ustin

Well-Known Member
america is falling apart. you have to admit it. look at the unemployment rate. in NY it just dropped 5%..... in 6 months... 250,000 people... 2.5 million nation wide.. they made that 750 billion dollar bailout for the banks, and now the 3 american car companys are trying to hopp in it.... shit is crazzy
 

snyder007

Well-Known Member
If you start handing out money everyone comes calling. I don't even think the banks should have gotten ANY money personally.
 

Jtoth3ustin

Well-Known Member
they shouldnt of needed it if they managed there shit right... AIG sent there 11 top owners of the company to some resort. spent like 86mill for 3 day vacation. and this is while all this is just starting up....
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
its already over for them, marijuana is already on its way to legalization

they can never stop the peeps in san fan and the west coast, its too late the foot is in the door

now while obama is in office it will come up and he has stated that he would not have the federal government doing any raids in legal states

this will set a president and then you will finally have a few truely legal states

over time many years a huge marijuana tourist industry will develop in these states from pot tourists in surounding nonlegal states

this over time will create widespread acceptance across the country over time, making most other states follow suit and the ones that dont will have weaker laws aganst it due to this greater acceptance

so the best thing you can do is go to california and be another soilder building the unstoppable hord of legal growers & smokers in that state

i say if barak were to stop all raids from the feds in legal states today, within 2 years attutudes will begin to greatly change regarding the subject.
 
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