12/12 From Seed Experiment - 21 Strains

Hey S,

I would like to see some pics of your tube setup (if comfortable).

A~~~

Ah yes of course, switch day and night, I've been doing that for so long it's normal to me. At night the light keeps it warm, during the day, in colder seasons I have the heating on anyway and direct the intake to my living room and hall.

I revegged quite a few plants and while that's usually without problems the best one did throw nanners at the end while a non-revegged clone I took earlier did not. Though that Skunk #1 is probably less likely to do that than many of the gazillion crosses made with it.

@Alaric: I just started another run on soil, already regretting it. Got a few in hempy that look so much better at week 8 than my soil plants at week 3. Got some new nutes (Atami AB) which do seem to suit me better than the organic mixes I tried this year. Since they closed so many growshops I tried out 4 different soil types from gardening center and while it works, it's not ideal. So I was referring to my old set up you've already seen. Actually started a round on those a couple of months ago, but didn't have enough females to justify running the tubes so transplanted them to soil. Which went great under 400w mh but they can't handle the 600w hps. I'm having a bad grow year...

Oh I actually do have a new tubes setup... Let me grab some pics

That's a 2-inch tube. Remember our talks about plant mobility? This was a little test setup for giggles. Worked so well (better/faster than my dwc preveg boxes) I moved them to my large tubes but most were male.

Hey S,

Thanks for the pic. Those plants look happy----except for that midget.

Seems I remember someone saying "soil----never again" What happened?

Bummer about the boy population. What's your opinion about fem seed? The only fem strain I've ever grown is Critical Kush I got through Attitude----no complaints.

Cheers,

A~~~

@Sativied
Sometime in mid January the temps will reach their low point of 48F and remain there until early April...if memory serves correct from last winter.

One thing I forgot to mention was that I might not run the tubes for my next grow. I'm almost done building my 1st LED and want to give that a try so I'll probably go back to a drain to waste traditional style for at least one run.

The midget was added later, came from a bed of hydroton. The three largest ones were untouched till they had multiple roots and brached out tap. Second from left and right had its roots in a knot to keep them short but that damaged (broke) them.

I have nothing against fem seed for growing, I rather just not use them for breeding because there are still too many unknowns, else I'd still be running fem seeds (or clones) myself.

Alaric said:

Seems I remember someone saying "soil----never again" What happened?

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I already vegged those females in the tubes and they roots were so large I decided to transplant to soil instead of hempy (which I've done more often but only when still being able to spread out the roots in the perlite). Needed more plants to fill the space and rather not run soil and tubes in the same small space so added even more soil plants. Had nearly 50 in total, down to little over 40 now.

I'm pretty sure I'll be moving to hempy (perlite) once I stop filling pots with dirt. Two hempy plants I got in flower now, they get 500ppm once every day (third is tap ppm) after a flush with water. First is in half a gallon medium, second is in 5L H&G jerry. Mostly perlite, and some coco and hydroton I still had.


Under 400w mh with an output similar to the 315w cmh, first got bend out of shape cause it's pushed in the corner against the wall. I could fit 49 of those on 4x4 and get exceptional high gpw. Probably going for flowering 12-16 like the second, topped to 4 mains. I bought a cycle timer that supports seconds and will probably set up some automatic watering system for a whole bunch of hempy containers on trays and then drain to waste. I can easily remove plants then, to trash or pollinate or move around.

Hot Diggity Sog said:

@Sativied
Sometime in mid January the temps will reach their low point of 48F and remain there until early April...if memory serves correct from last winter.

One thing I forgot to mention was that I might not run the tubes for my next grow. I'm almost done building my 1st LED and want to give that a try so I'll probably go back to a drain to waste traditional style for at least one run.

Click to expand...

It gets that cold here easily but usually not in my grow room cause it's next to heated rooms. Plenty of growers here that have dealt with such temps for decades though, growing in cold attics, sheds, and basements. Yet people love a "winter grow" here, as it's usually dry. You could set up a grow tent, get some heating mats to put under the pots, and do a run on soil or coco. Heating mat under those tubs perhaps...

Since you have the freedom with LED to build w/e you need, why not build something that can be used vertically? You should have enough data now to be able to determine the required ppf. I highly recommend HPS for a winter grow though.

Sativied said:

The midget was added later, came from a bed of hydroton. The three largest ones were untouched till they had multiple roots and brached out tap. Second from left and right had its roots in a knot to keep them short but that damaged (broke) them.

I have nothing against fem seed for growing, I rather just not use them for breeding because there are still too many unknowns, else I'd still be running fem seeds (or clones) myself.

I already vegged those females in the tubes and they roots were so large I decided to transplant to soil instead of hempy (which I've done more often but only when still being able to spread out the roots in the perlite). Needed more plants to fill the space and rather not run soil and tubes in the same small space so added even more soil plants. Had nearly 50 in total, down to little over 40 now.

I'm pretty sure I'll be moving to hempy (perlite) once I stop filling pots with dirt. Two hempy plants I got in flower now, they get 500ppm once every day (third is tap ppm) after a flush with water. First is in half a gallon medium, second is in 5L H&G jerry. Mostly perlite, and some coco and hydroton I still had.

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Under 400w mh with an output similar to the 315w cmh, first got bend out of shape cause it's pushed in the corner against the wall. I could fit 49 of those on 4x4 and get exceptional high gpw. Probably going for flowering 12-16 like the second, topped to 4 mains. I bought a cycle timer that supports seconds and will probably set up some automatic watering system for a whole bunch of hempy containers on trays and then drain to waste. I can easily remove plants then, to trash or pollinate or move around.


It gets that cold here easily but usually not in my grow room cause it's next to heated rooms. Plenty of growers here that have dealt with such temps for decades though, growing in cold attics, sheds, and basements. Yet people love a "winter grow" here, as it's usually dry. You could set up a grow tent, get some heating mats to put under the pots, and do a run on soil or coco. Heating mat under those tubs perhaps...

Since you have the freedom with LED to build w/e you need, why not build something that can be used vertically? You should have enough data now to be able to determine the required ppf. I highly recommend HPS for a winter grow though.

Click to expand...

WOW! Those are some beautiful plants you have there S. My favorite pic is the 3rd from right (worthy of a weed rag cover).

Are you saying 40 plants under a 400W MH?

Cheers,

A~~~

Thanks, and yes, well, 38, 4x4' under 400 watt. Roughly half are male, removed most of those already. I had 50 at first but moved 12 back to my veg box cause it was getting too full. I can fit 50 plants (roughly 9 x 9) in there, 36 single cola plants works better (6x6 plants), but the 400 watt doesn't cover the corners and two edges very well so I had to switch to 600w. Normally I wouldn't put this many plants in there, doing another selection run for whorled phyllotaxy plants, a trait that shows during veg already, so I won't actually flower that many, more like 20, of which most are single cola plants.

Those are exactly what I have always wanted since starting. Single donkey cola's crammed together.

Little over 20 in the right half of my flower closet/ Left in corner is a heavily cropped plant, different cross. Not a good example of a SoG though, the single cola thing is mostly because it was so crammed in there it became a battle between the terminal buds only, covering all the side shoots with a thick canopy leaving those behind. Hash farmers in Pakistan supposedly selected towards wide leaves to get the same effect. Works for afghani and kush perhaps but once you start doing that with sativa hybrids they stretch a lot and isn't much of a cola anymore. Hybrids should imo always have narrow leaflets but then I normally do like the branching.

....Oops I did it again. Kicked (literally...) my timer to "On" last night, didn't notice till it had nearly 18 hours light instead of 12... Not happy with that since they are transitioning but well, if there are any light sensitive hermies in there I rather find them asap.

Hot Diggity Sog said:

Those are exactly what I have always wanted since starting. Single donkey cola's crammed together.

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I think that may prove to be impossible in NFT unless you use short indicas from clone or even autos. I'm also starting to think that 12/12 from seed is not the best way to go and vegging for 3 weeks minimum will actually make them mature thus flower faster. Could differ per strain, but I strongly get the impression that's the case. I determine sex within 25-28 days veg (of which first 2 weeks on 24 hrs light to keep them tight) on 4 different crosses.

To get similar results in the octagon, with seeds, I would veg for a few weeks, till they have 4-5 nodes. That's often where the first preflowers appear. Then top them down to only 4 branches (not necessarily the bottom two nodes, just 4 best branches), then after 1-3 days switch to 12/12. That way you put more mature plants in flower, have a good root mass already and with the fast veg rates in nft it will more or less be as fast, if not faster than on 12/12 from start. Veg a week extra, but transition a week faster.

That single cola plant in the hempy bottle is partly single cola because it's a narrow tall container, instead of wide and short. Hydroponics, in tubes and buckets alike, the roots have plenty of space to grow and seem to act as if they are in a wide large containers, contributing to the plants becoming wider too. SkunkD0c's grows are probably the best examples of that.

Hot Diggity Sog said:

I was hoping I could create a poll from here but I guess I can't. I'm skeptical that the 3" x 10" pots are going to work but because I can get 16 of them per sq/ft I had to try. I feel pretty good that the 4" x 12" pots are going to be fine as they are relatively comparable to the 2L Hempy's that a lot of people use.

3" Pots - What do you think? Total failure? Total Success? No Idea?

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The suspense is KILLING ME,! I shall read on.

Oregon Gardener said:

The suspense is KILLING ME,! I shall read on.

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Haha...it's going to be long read my friend

@Sativied

Everything you said makes perfect sense. In my very 1st chapter, the plants did grow straight up and many had little if any side branches. The ones that had side branches stuck closely to the main stem. The close proximity to one another plus the skinny tall pots being the reason.

I think I've decided to modify the design for the next run so I can test my new LED which I will unveil soon. Perhaps take 3 sections of tubing and place them parallel to one another spaced 1 foot or a little more apart. Maybe do 6 or 7 feet long. I'll try vegging per your suggestion and not do 12/12. This will help combat my cold temp situation too so I could start this earlier than otherwise planned.

My next picture update will be Friday...flowering day 45 and I wanted to bring up a topic and get everyone's thoughts. Those of you that have been around in this journal for a while know that I like to experiment a lot with bulbs. This 4th chapter is the 1st time that I have not done much experimenting. Since the girls starting flowering, I have had a 1000 Watt HPS on top and a 600 Watt HPS on the bottom and I am thrilled with how they are performing. (Hortilux Super HPS bulbs).

Having already done a full grow with MH only (Chapter 1), I can attest to the great resin production that MH can provide. That said, the resin production that I am currently seeing appears to be on par with that. What are your thoughts on introducing MH on or around day 45?

These are all of the MH bulbs that I currently own:
Hortilux Eye Blue
SolisTek 6K
SolisTek10K

Nearly all those seeminlgy extra frosty mh buds, including my own, appear to be extra leafy as well. Seems to be more meat on hps buds, which covers the leaves more including the most frosty parts... All just perception though, but I think that's largely true for people 'seeing' more frost under mh.

I use the mh for veg and usually part or most of the transition period, and then flower under hps.

Sativied said:

Nearly all those seeminlgy extra frosty mh buds, including my own, appear to be extra leafy as well. Seems to be more meat on hps buds, which covers the leaves more including the most frosty parts... All just perception though, but I think that's largely true for people 'seeing' more frost under mh.

I use the mh for veg and usually part or most of the transition period, and then flower under hps.

Click to expand...

I definitely concur about the additional leafiness. I saw this in Chapter 3 when I brought MH on board a little too early. Alright...I have not run 100% HPS yet so this seems like the perfect time then. I'll keep those MH's on the shelf for now.

I agree, especially because you are not lacking in frost. I think my is best applied early in flower vs. late. Get the tricks marching in with the my, then smack them with the how to build the weight towards the end.

Chapter 4 Update - Part #1
Day 89
Flowering ~ Day 45

We're looking good!

Chapter 4 Update - Part #2: Closeups
Day 89
Flowering ~ Day 45

On Day #40 (5 days ago) I brushed up against plant #21: Top Row furthest to the right and of her branches fell over. Instead of tying her I just decided to chop the branch. It represented about 25% of the plant. After 4 1/2 days of drying and then 12 hours in a jar here is what some of it looks like: It's very leafy and not much meat which is to be expected for being almost 3 weeks pre-mature but check out the resin!