1oz+ per plant SoG, doable?

As far as I know, yes. At least that's the way it worked out for me. It actually refers to veg height of a mature plant. Clones are the same age as the mother but the root system and therefore growth potential is not. You have to wait until a clone establishes it's growth pattern and that's why you look for new growth from the clone to start counting stretch.

im thinking of putting clones straight to flower couse than i can get the extra 800w that i use for veg. and have another table in the floweringroom,i have a limit on the electricity that i can use,so does it make difference to have the clones under a few flourescent lights for a week ina dwc cloner just to grow some bigger roots or can i put em to flower soon as they show roots

panta said:

im thinking of putting clones straight to flower couse than i can get the extra 800w that i use for veg. and have another table in the floweringroom,i have a limit on the electricity that i can use,so does it make difference to have the clones under a few flourescent lights for a week ina dwc cloner just to grow some bigger roots or can i put em to flower soon as they show roots

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It does make a difference to veg them a bit, throw some vegging nutes in there if you have the space and the time.

But you can just move them into the flowering area once they have a decent set of roots, once you start seeing laterals I think you're good to go.

QuentinQuark said:

It does make a difference to veg them a bit, throw some vegging nutes in there if you have the space and the time.

But you can just move them into the flowering area once they have a decent set of roots, once you start seeing laterals I think you're good to go.

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soory if my question is dumb but what are laterals,and can i add some nutes in the cloner under a weak light for a week does that make a difference

I didnt read everyones post jsut basically the first page but I am A sog grower and might be able to help. You can easily get a oz a plant in a sog if you do it right. I get 16 plants in a 4 x 4 tray, as long as you trim the lower branches and use co2 you can get 16 oz per tray pretty easy, i use 600watt per 4x4 but have multiple trays set up in a box formation so there is actually no wasted light. I flower my plants at about a couple of feet and try to rotate the smaller plants to the middle of the tray and larger ones on the outside to ensure the light is as close to plants as possible. Im not a fan of 1000watts you lose light and its soo damn hot with those babies. Get a good strain and your golden, although most strains now have good yields so just do some research and only keep the strongests seeds as mothers to ensure good health babies... GL

Advantages is trimming too a lot less to trim which is probably the most boring and time consuming thing I can ever imagin doing.
Sogs are easy to get 6 harvests in a year too ;P

panta said:

soory if my question is dumb but what are laterals,and can i add some nutes in the cloner under a weak light for a week does that make a difference

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Laterals are the roots that shoot off sideways from the downwards roots. If you leave them long enough they will become downwards roots and will develop their own roots, and so on.

Yes you can put nutes in your cloner and veg them for a week, but you have to be careful that the roots don't start to tangle together.

Spazzy said:

I didnt read everyones post jsut basically the first page but I am A sog grower and might be able to help. You can easily get a oz a plant in a sog if you do it right. I get 16 plants in a 4 x 4 tray, as long as you trim the lower branches and use co2 you can get 16 oz per tray pretty easy, i use 600watt per 4x4 but have multiple trays set up in a box formation so there is actually no wasted light. I flower my plants at about a couple of feet and try to rotate the smaller plants to the middle of the tray and larger ones on the outside to ensure the light is as close to plants as possible. Im not a fan of 1000watts you lose light and its soo damn hot with those babies. Get a good strain and your golden, although most strains now have good yields so just do some research and only keep the strongests seeds as mothers to ensure good health babies... GL

Advantages is trimming too a lot less to trim which is probably the most boring and time consuming thing I can ever imagin doing.
Sogs are easy to get 6 harvests in a year too ;P

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I was asking about 1oz per plant with zero veg time. It sounds like you have some veg time in there. I pack my plants in 4 per sf, whereas you have 1 per sf.

QuentinQuark said:

Oh so the standard "stretch" numbers refers to when planted from seed??

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Good Doctor, and anyone else who recommends vegging if I want to hit the 1oz+ per plant mark:

Do you recommend vegging to increase yields because of more bud sites? Or will vegging improve yields by giving a larger main cola? Remember, I am trimming all lower growth, going for main colas only - will vegging improve yields even in that type of grow?

QuentinQuark said:

I was asking about 1oz per plant with zero veg time. It sounds like you have some veg time in there. I pack my plants in 4 per sf, whereas you have 1 per sf.

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hello quentinquark,
if it was possible to get 1oz per plant with 4 plants per sq ft then you would be able to fit 40 plants in 1sq meter and yield an amazing 40oz.

i think that is very unlikely.
if you dont veg them, they usually yield less as the root mass is less developed so nutrient uptake will not be as good as a plant that has had 7 days+ veg time.

i like to read these type of threads because im interested in achieving maximum yield per meter sq.
if you ever achieve anywhere close to 1oz per plant with 4 plants per sq ft then "I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT". seriously.

to give an answer to you regarding veg time:
i have used 1 plant per sq ft with 14 days veg time, they averaged slightly more than 1oz each in 15 liter pots. using bending techniques and topping a few plants. they were medium yielding though.

I find 18 to 20 grams per SOG plant at 4 plants per square foot easily obtainable but I do some veg time also, plus: CO2, high temp, water cooled lights and humidity control. That is about 1.2 to 1.3 grams per watt, but only about 1 gram per kwh. It is pushable to a higher amount but it places the whole system on a finer line, with crashes being quite easy. One popped circuit breaker or an empty CO2 tank etc reeks havoc very quickly if going much beyond that output level. I have lost crops for a variety reasons over the yeras, from not using flow no flow valves for ilight cooling water to using poor grades of pumps and timers, but neraly alwat ys it was when trying to push for maximum yields. Good enough is good enough and anything that means at least an average of 1 gram per lighting kWh is enough as that means about a twenty five or thirty to one long term return on costs.

fatman7574 said:

I find 18 to 20 grams per SOG plant at 4 plants per square foot easily obtainable but I do some veg time also, plus: CO2, high temp, water cooled lights and humidity control. That is about 1.2 to 1.3 grams per watt, but only about 1 gram per kwh. It is pushable to a higher amount but it places the whole system on a finer line, with crashes being quite easy. One popped circuit breaker or an empty CO2 tank etc reeks havoc very quickly if going much beyond that output level. I have lost crops for a variety reasons over the yeras, from not using flow no flow valves for ilight cooling water to using poor grades of pumps and timers, but neraly alwat ys it was when trying to push for maximum yields. Good enough is good enough and anything that means at least an average of 1 gram per lighting kWh is enough as that means about a twenty five or thirty to one long term return on costs.

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did u ever try putting clones soon as they developed roots straight to flower,and is there a difference if i keep about 30-40 clones under a weak light something like 23w flourescent for a week and give em a little bit of nutrients and some root stimulator to enhance root growth would that give a better chance for then to develope into more robust plants and ultimately give better yeild g/w

panta said:

did u ever try putting clones soon as they developed roots straight to flower,and is there a difference if i keep about 30-40 clones under a weak light something like 23w flourescent for a week and give em a little bit of nutrients and some root stimulator to enhance root growth would that give a better chance for then to develope into more robust plants and ultimately give better yield g/w

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I have grown from just rooted clones as well as clones that have been vegged for a while. Over time I have just gone to the point where the clones are vegged enough in the cloning area until they are able to withstand full strength nutrients and lighting as well as the other higher parameters before moving them to the 16/8 veg tubes. I do not supply CO2 during clone root development or early veg growth and the clones stay in the small clones tubes when going through early veg growth. I increase their nutrient level every other day for 12 days after they develop roots. I themn move them to the regular veg tubes where they are supplied CO2 in the 16/8 tubes as well as temps nearing the top temps they will later experience as the room air from the budding area is circulated through the veg area. The vegging area has straight halide lighting, but the average air temp is the same as in the budding area. The temp at the canopy area is lower in the veg area as lighting intensity is less. The plants in later veg growth and all through budding receive the same nutrient formulation that is drawn from the same reservoir (it is chilled). Even the earlier veg stage gets the same formualtion accept it is more dilute. The clones start in two inch net pots and remain in two inch net pots throughout the full process. The clones and early veg is done in 3" aero tubes, From there it is 4" aero tubes. I am running intermittant misting at 25 psi in all tubes.

I did not like the rooted clone grows as to much time was spent in slow growth in a high maintenace cost area. I just did not like having clones that could not take the intensity of the fast grow parameters that I supplied by choice to shorten budding times. It has been quite a few years since I have kept fully vegging and/or budding plants at low temps with low lighting and no CO2. The costs are too high for the yields over time with low temps etc.

fatman7574 said:

I find 18 to 20 grams per SOG plant at 4 plants per square foot easily obtainable but I do some veg time also, plus: CO2, high temp, water cooled lights and humidity control. That is about 1.2 to 1.3 grams per watt, but only about 1 gram per kwh. It is pushable to a higher amount but it places the whole system on a finer line, with crashes being quite easy. One popped circuit breaker or an empty CO2 tank etc reeks havoc very quickly if going much beyond that output level. I have lost crops for a variety reasons over the yeras, from not using flow no flow valves for ilight cooling water to using poor grades of pumps and timers, but neraly alwat ys it was when trying to push for maximum yields. Good enough is good enough and anything that means at least an average of 1 gram per lighting kWh is enough as that means about a twenty five or thirty to one long term return on costs.

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What kind of trimming and/or training do you do to get 18 - 20 grams per plant at 4 plants per sq ft?

You act like that is an extreme amount. Considering the lighting used etc it is not exceptional yield. The lighting during budding is over 1 watt per gram (1.125). Overall the end result is just 1 gram per kwh average considering all lighting combined.

No real special trimming except fan leaf trimming, and no training. I use a lot of short wave blue actinic lighting by combining 6500K halide and actinic top lighting by long tube CFC in early veg and I use 6500K Halide and HPS equally for budding with side lighting from blue actinic CFC long tubes (66.66 watt/sq ft HID and 26.66 watt/sq ft actinic CFC). Besides CO2, humidity control and heta control etc. I also always maintain good calcium, magnesium and all trace elements My increase I believe is from close internodal spacing from balanced lighting etc. and fine intermittant misting at pressures of at least 25 psi. I am collect components to build a higher pressure system now to try to increase hair root development and shortenen up the internode spacing even more by going with an even finer mist (higher pressure) and doing away with aero tubes but instead going to compartments 36" square that are two foot deep. It would be nice to try to get a complete grow without the roots sitting in nutrient water. I might just go with three foot deep chambers. The chambers will be thermal welded FRP panels over plywood with acrylic plastic sectional lids drilled for net pots. The misters low flow high pressure misters and will be inside the compartments. Basically I will go as close as possible to an atomix without the compressed air. If that fails I will try buying atomix systems without there compartments. Costs for shipping the compartments would be rediculous.

i love that 40 site setup...what kind of lights do you have?

Compressed Aero FTW!

damn fatman you know about the 60 watts per foot thang too huh...

Maybe i do need more blue.

Though,

I kind of like the amount of stretch i get underneath the 800 watts of 630-640 red and marginal uvb cfls i run...

I'll have to be really critical of my cola formation this run... But I can't wait to get a delevan nozzle inside my res. One hp-aero thread i read, the guru was matter of fact about halving flowering time, finishing his particular strain in something like 40 days.

I'm sure he did a gram per watt too.

I realy want to both increase the yield and shorten the over all time. Its just coming up with that perfect atomizer. I want to see lots of hair roots. No reuse of nutrients, no pooling. I am hoping on finishing a grow in a short enough time to keep the roots shorter than 3 feet long. I have heard of 4 ounce colas one per square foot on an Atomix table. It will be a nice goal to shoot for. Maybe unreasonable but time will tell. It would mean I could sell a lot of pH controllers and conductivity controllers and pumps etc. That would sure be nice.

Wow this thread has a TON of great information on SOG growing, it is making my head spin. Unfortunatly it also makes me realize that i prematurely jumped into buying equipment without maximum efficency in mind. I have a 9 SQ ft enclosed DR100 Tent with a 250W Aircooled HPS. I purchased an Aero unit, 16 sites with the thought in mind of going from clone to sog style plant with no veg time. First of all i realize now i dont have enough plant sites, and they are not close enough. Help me figure this out guys.. Check it out This is the unit i bought from huge harvest



It uses 2 inch net pots and the spaceing between sites is , well ill let them tell you.

The Clone & Grow 16 uses a 6.75" spacing gap in order to allow plants enough room to develop, as aeroponically grown plants tend to be very bushy. With a full 6.75 inches plants have room to grow and receive sufficient amounts of oxygen

I had a conversation with treeth and i believe we concluded that the spaceing was off.

With that in mind how would you guys maximize efficiency with this unit?

some of the math...

Only 27.7 w/sqft with the 250W but i do have some LED and other side lighting to get the number more like 46.1 w/sqft

The light is enclosed with glass and aircooled so it is TOTALLY cool, i can keep my hand right on the glass when it is fully warmed and it is not even uncomfortable! Unfortunatly because of the spaceing i will have to back the light off somewhat to cover the near 9 sq feet the unit takes up.


You guys have a great discussion going on here, please take a look at what i have here and give me your expert opinions!

Treeth knows all about my never ending questions

The spacing is not bad. They definitely allowed to much wasted space at the tube ends though and staggered holes would have been a bit better. At least an extra four plant holes could have been incorporated. As is you might as well cut about 3 or 4 inches of tube off both ends of all the tubes so as to lower the area that is lit. The raes a the the ends produce the worse yield generally anyway. I have no idea what your system is using for its nutrient distribution as only delivery pipes to each tube and the reservoir are shown. Does it have mister heads inside the tubes or is it a flood system etc, etc. A AOG with a good cooled lamp can grow a good yield at a firly low wattage/sq ft. If you start getting up into higher wattages then temps and therefore CO2 start becoming a bigger issue. The main focus point now is what is your nutrient distribution system. Plants need plenty of oxygen at there roots so any reccomendation I would make would have to wait until you divulge more an bout what is inside the tubes ie misters or nothing.

So Treeth / Fatman.....

This thread has got me thinking about SOG growing now.

I have 3 4x8 Flood Tables - Each with 2x1000W HPS Air Cooled (cool to the touch)
Co2, A/C, Humidity Control, and a few years experience....

From what your saying I could get up to 8 Pounds per table with 4 per SqFt ?