1st time Planning on breeding-feminized seeds - quick question

I've run many different varieties and still maintain a clone from each and everyone. It's time for me to start thinning the herd so to speak. However, before I take that step I'm going to make some colloidal silver and make pollen from each mother. I'm going to make enough pollen to both store longer term as well as to hopefully pollinate some lower branches of a few different strains this same cycle. So my question is if I want to breed a super silver haze to original amnesia. Is there a difference between using super silver haze pollen to father seeds from an original amnesia or using original amnesia pollen to father seeds from a super silver haze? Would both sets of seeds produce identical offspring or would there be differences between the two? The reason I'm asking is because once I eliminate a strain I'm also eliminated the chance to use that strain as the mother!

One cycle I let them flower a little longer in the hopes of getting "natural" feminized seeds. I've read contrary opinions of F1's but the only way to truly know is to try yourself. Anyway I had a few that did throw out a few noticeable naders other strains didn't. But all strains did get a few seeds. So I decided to germinate 7 seeds of original amnesia. 1 grew identical to the mother only a little more miniature in size. The other 6 all grew taller and more vertical than the mother but the buds were much larger than the mother. When done I'd say each of the 6 would be keepers and the only reason the other one got dumped is because for being identical the original mother produced more. That is better than I've done with any package of seeds I've bought. I'm not saying I didn't find a keeper in each and they were not feminized. But even after removing the males I had between 7-9 females to choose from and the percentage of what I'd call keepers wasn't 85%. I do understand it's a small sample size but there was enough good to come from this experiment that I'm trying to take it to the next logical step. Any help or advice would be well appreciated. The other thing is the way I got these trail seeds I can't even tell whether it pollinated itself or if it was one of the other 6 strains I had in there at the time. That uncertainty is what i'm trying to eliminate.

I got to line 5 and then you mentioned 'breed' again. One doesn't 'breed' feminized seeds. "create" or "make" would be more fitting.

"I want to breed a super silver haze to original amnesia" makes no sense either. You want to 'cross' ssh 'with' o amnesia.

No not trying to be a grammar-nazi but if you want to learn about making beans (i.e. creating seeds) and breeding (stabilizing traits in offspring) at least get your terminology straight.

I will make a second attempt at reading your post and perhaps post a more useful reply

GOLDBERG71 said:

Is there a difference between using super silver haze pollen to father seeds from an original amnesia or using original amnesia pollen to father seeds from a super silver haze?

Click to expand...

Any possible differences in practice you can't know until you tried. In theory no. They get a random half of their chromosomes, which is combined again when the pollen meets the calyx. How much difference there will be in the offspring depends on whether relevant traits are dominant or recessive and whether they are heterozygous or homozygous. Also something you can only find out (unless the breeder of the strains you use is willing to share such info) by trying.

You won't save those genetics from individual plants by crossing them with others. If saving the genetics is primary, self them. I.e. get and use the pollen on the same plant (that's also what you get when you buy a cannabis cup winner. A clone won, the fem seeds sold is often selfed. Many believe selfing causes more chances of getting hermies. Ideally you'd put 50-100 of those selfed seeds to the test and cross a couple that don't hermie.

So as you can see there are downsides to your approach and it won't actually get the desired results.

Also, what you called F1 would actually be S1(reverse female to male, or wait for nanners a la rodelization, and drop on same plant) or R1 (reversed female to male to get pollen and drop that on another. If inbred between two F1 it could also be considered an F2, if the pollen is dropped on a different strain it could be considered an F1. F1-ish ). An F1 is the result of crossing two different strains, i.e. what you will get when you cross SSH with amnesia (which is hardly an original cross by the way).

I'm going to use some pollen I stored frozen for about 5 months in a few days, but I have yet to see it's still viable. Storing pollen for longer term is hard to impossible and does not save the genetics (only a random half of it in each pollen grain).

Sativied said:

I got to line 5 and then you mentioned 'breed' again. One doesn't 'breed' feminized seeds. "create" or "make" would be more fitting.

"I want to breed a super silver haze to original amnesia" makes no sense either. You want to 'cross' ssh 'with' o amnesia.

No not trying to be a grammar-nazi but if you want to learn about making beans (i.e. creating seeds) and breeding (stabilizing traits in offspring) at least get your terminology straight.

I will make a second attempt at reading your post and perhaps post a more useful reply

Click to expand...

Maybe 1st time wasn't clear enough for you? Call me stupid but at this stage I still don't know why there would be a difference between breed or create? It's 2 plants making seeds for gods sakes outside of having to use CS to get the pollen. But since you've made the point I will have to investigate your point. Even if there is a big difference I do believe most people would understand what my question was. Thanks for a non helpful response. You must have a ton of time on your hands if this is how you choose to use it. Perhaps if I was that wrong in my terminology someone as knowledgeable as yourself could have explained the differences in the terminology and why I was so wrong? It wouldn't have answered my original question but at least your post would have had a purpose and helped me. I've seen all 3 terms used and never even thought about it but I did understand what was being said in those posts.

Oh.... wow....

I think you're in the wrong place in multiple ways but good luck with getting your answers dude.

https://www.rollitup.org/f/breeders-paradise.94/

Sativied said:

Any possible differences in practice you can't know until you tried. In theory no. They get a random half of their chromosomes, which is combined again when the pollen meets the calyx. How much difference there will be in the offspring depends on whether relevant traits are dominant or recessive and whether they are heterozygous or homozygous. Also something you can only find out (unless the breeder of the strains you use is willing to share such info) by trying.

You won't save those genetics from individual plants by crossing them with others. If saving the genetics is primary, self them. I.e. get and use the pollen on the same plant (that's also what you get when you buy a cannabis cup winner. A clone won, the fem seeds sold is often selfed. Many believe selfing causes more chances of getting hermies. Ideally you'd put 50-100 of those selfed seeds to the test and cross a couple that don't hermie.

So as you can see there are downsides to your approach and it won't actually get the desired results.

Also, what you called F1 would actually be S1(reverse female to male, or wait for nanners a la rodelization, and drop on same plant) or R1 (reversed female to male to get pollen and drop that on another. If inbred between two F1 it could also be considered an F2, if the pollen is dropped on a different strain it could be considered an F1. F1-ish ). An F1 is the result of crossing two different strains, i.e. what you will get when you cross SSH with amnesia (which is hardly an original cross by the way).

I'm going to use some pollen I stored frozen for about 5 months in a few days, but I have yet to see it's still viable. Storing pollen for longer term is hard to impossible and does not save the genetics (only a random half of it in each pollen grain).

Click to expand...

Yes I understand I wouldn't be storing the genetics as stated in my original post. I didn't mention it but I did plan on self pollinating each strain I would be eliminated to do just that. I wasn't trying to get that deep with my question as far as F1,S1,R1. From what I've read there is no standard for those terms and pro breeders interchange them. I've even read breeders posts complaining about the lack of standard use of those terms? Anyway this seems to have gotten more complicated than I wanted it to be. And that could be my fault for babbling a bit. What I'm interested in knowing is simple at least in my mind.

First off I'm speaking female only and using CS to reverse sex. I have 2 plants A and B. If I reverse A and pollinate B with it I'll get what I'll call RA/B. If I reverse B and pollinate A with it I'll get RB/A. I completely understand chromosomes and half come from each parent and dominant and recessive genes and the randomness that comes with it. My simple brain thinks that RA/B should = RB/A. I do also understand that ideally the more seeds germinated the better view of cross and phenos will be gained. But I'm not trying to get that deep. If I did a large enough population of each RA/B and RB/A I should get the same proportions of each pheno and the phenos should be identical? Would that basically be correct. I realize I have a lot to learn and believe me I'll be getting deeper in this as time goes. But please on a basic level is this correct?

Sativied said:

I got to line 5 and then you mentioned 'breed' again. One doesn't 'breed' feminized seeds. "create" or "make" would be more fitting.

"I want to breed a super silver haze to original amnesia" makes no sense either. You want to 'cross' ssh 'with' o amnesia.

No not trying to be a grammar-nazi but if you want to learn about making beans (i.e. creating seeds) and breeding (stabilizing traits in offspring) at least get your terminology straight.

I will make a second attempt at reading your post and perhaps post a more useful reply

Click to expand...

I am a grammer nazi, even grammer fucking commie, this rebuke just shines and thank you as I would still be struggling google translate with this,
narrow minded nth american fuckwits think they own the engish speaking world,
make it difficult to correctly diagnose or assist in their feeble attempts at home based horticulture


I wont make any further attempt at trying to decipher this growers vain attempts ...but thank you Sats

Sativied I apologized to you on your page and I will here also. I don't ask many questions here because in all my reading here I've seen way to many idiots posting stupid irrelevant things that don't help either the person who asked the question or others searching at a later date. Your first post did rub me the wrong way and I didn't realize that you had come back and given me some helpful info but the grammer nazi stuff doesn't help me. It wasn't until I replied to your second post that I realized they were posted by the same person.

Just look at the clown on post #7 that crap helps no one and wastes your time replying. Why do you even care vostok? I'm not here to fight fuck face.

Thanks Vostok. Was just trying to prevent him from getting dissapointed.

@OP:
Yes that's correct. Both parent's genetics will be scattered and mixed across the seeds you get from them. And with some luck you might be able to find one close enough to the parents or even better. Cross two of those into an F2 and with a large enough population and/or luck you will be able to find some that are even better than the ssh and o amnesia. Cross those further to stabelize and you will be breeding a new strain rather than crossing.

Just noticed your new reply. No worries, all good.

Next time I guess I give less background? Jesus I said 1st time so obviously I'm no freaking breeder nor pro! So it's easy for me to use the wrong term the helpful thing to do would be either correct me by informing me how I've used those terms improperly! Or don't reply at all! I thought giving more background would have helped someone more knowledgeable understand what I was asking since I understand I surely don't know it all. Maybe it's because of translation? I really don't understand why #2 or #7 were posted.

Are you bipolar or an actual schizo?


This is what I meant with "in multiple ways": Besides that this is a breeding subforum of the Advanced forum (where you can expect some nitpicking about terminology), this is also rollitup, where you need to grow a thick skin in addition to mj. Let it go man, focus on your plants.

Sativied said:

Thanks Vostok. Was just trying to prevent him from getting dissapointed.

@OP:
Yes that's correct. Both parent's genetics will be scattered and mixed across the seeds you get from them. And with some luck you might be able to find one close enough to the parents or even better. Cross two of those into an F2 and with a large enough population and/or luck you will be able to find some that are even better than the ssh and o amnesia. Cross those further to stabelize and you will be breeding a new strain rather than crossing.

Just noticed your new reply. No worries, all good.

Click to expand...

This is where we should have started. If Vostok is your friend he's not helping you by acting like that. Here is a clue if you have to use google to translate why go through all that trouble to act like a child? But let's end on a good note thanks Sativied this is what I was looking for.

Vostok is an ass and if he needs google to translate English then he's a fucking retard! Do mind him? Sativied is very informed and has great info. Most people on this forum have noting better then to post crap about nothing.
I'm about to self my northern lights cause the same as you my population is to big right now! She has a tendency to hermie under heat stress. I hope to breed this out of her at a later date cause she's beautiful and would hate to get rid of her. I have the same problem sometimes in my thinking that the same cross would end up different progeny depending on which one was male and female. The ratios of phenos you get could be different depending on which way they are crossed in theory I guess.