20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction

collective gardener said:

Jozikins, get some Spectracide. The stuff is magic for PM and very easy on the plants. Spray that shit all over the deck, your grow room, your plants up to week 4 of bloom, and anywhere else you think it may do some good.

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Awesome dude, thanks for the tip. It would definitely be worth my money to try instead of just spending hundreds on a new deck.

here you go CG i started a journal

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/451539-hellraizers-10x10-x2-tents-running.html

What variety of Spectraside? I'm having a hard time finding something for both bugs and disease that is safe for vegetable crops.

Still loving those rain gutter tables. Me and a few people had a good laugh about it over a drink, and we all are thinking of doing that next time. Did it save you any money? Or is it because it makes things easier. I like saving both money and/or convenience. Don't we all?

So CG if I were to cut ventilation holes in a wall what tools are generally involved in the process is it simply like installing a ducting hole for a dryer? Also what are the best ways to hang multiple lights in a row is it best to just get creative or are there things that are commonly used by growers with large scale operations? I dont quite understand how to perfectly cut a hole for a inline fan does the exhaust fan sit right at the edge of the wall or is it hung inside and ducting is simply drawn to the hole?

All you need to cut the whole is a dry wall saw. Its just a little straight saw with a wooden or rubber handle. I cut my hole 5 1/2 - 5 3/4 inches for 6 inch ducting. And with the hole slughtly smaller than the ducting you can simply screw the ducting thru the drywall and you don't need a flange.

You probably want to exhaust into your attic or into the cieling rather than into a wall.

And inline fans pull air better than they push so you want your fan as close to the end of the run as possible.

Thanks the last wood I appreciate it. Do you measure your circle with a compass (I think that's the thing I used to draw my circle with in math) before going into it? and also I would think wall to wall would be the most efficient as far as air movement but yes a lot more noticeable I was thinking those dryer flaps would be kind of low key most likely not haha... what do you hang your lights with do you use a stud finder?

dapio said:

So CG if I were to cut ventilation holes in a wall what tools are generally involved in the process is it simply like installing a ducting hole for a dryer? Also what are the best ways to hang multiple lights in a row is it best to just get creative or are there things that are commonly used by growers with large scale operations? I dont quite understand how to perfectly cut a hole for a inline fan does the exhaust fan sit right at the edge of the wall or is it hung inside and ducting is simply drawn to the hole?

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If you look carefully at the pictures of our op (go back towards the beginning of the thread), you'll see how the ducting is connecting the fan to the wall/ceiling penetration. We use flanges at all penetrations. Like Wood said, a drywall saw works good for cutting a hole in drywall. Make sure to cut between the studs. If you need to cut through something other than drywall, use a jigsaw.

Fastening multiple lights to ceiling is best done by first screwing a 2x4 to the ceiling joists through the drywall. Then just use eye screws into the 2x4 to attach your light hangers. We sheeted this whole grow with plywood so that we wouldn't need to look for studs, and could attach anything, anywhere on the walls or ceiling. I highly advise builders of new grows to do just this. It allows all equipment to be ung high on walls up out of the way, and opens up more space for more plants.

also into a cieling is better than the wall like I said. Most walls are only 3.5 to 5.5 inches thick so your going to get a lot of air resistance if your pushing 450 cfm straight into a wall.

If you exhaust into the cieling you won't have that problem. Plus the insulation and whatever else is in ur walls, its going to be a lot of resistance.

PakaloloHui said:

Here is a great video about THC and UVB. also rosecitypapa, how do you incorporate your UVB's with your HPS. Can you scetch a diagram of layout or explain???


[video=youtube;lfiI78uN3Ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfiI78uN3Ks[/video]

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Great vid PakaloloHui!! That's the best I've seen on the subject so far.

In addition to searching the topic on other boards, I learned much about reptile lights and UVB from these links:
Chemical Ecology of Cannabis
Reptile lights and UVB
Radiance patterns of reptile lights

I have a 4'w x 6'd x 7'h space running a 600w vertical with a hydro flooded tube. I use one Reptisun CFL in a 12" metal reflector and a diy reflector for a Reptisun 18" uvb phosphor tube. The diy reflector was fashioned by splicing drip flashing, L bracket from scrap metal and a metal ceiling box. I matched the tube with spare ballasts and end clips from HD. ($20 total)This is hung vertically and basically creates a column (tear drop cross-section) within my vscrog.

The third link above is important in understanding the lighting distribution coming from these lamps with and without a reflector. It's a bit surprising that with uvb, polished metal actually amplifies the strength to detrimental levels at least for reptiles.

collective gardener said:

Rose City,

I use a high quality sprayer and soak the living fuck out of the bottoms and tops of the leaves, the whole plant, the area around the plant, and basically the whole grow. We sprayed once per week while we were fighting massive mites. Now, we're down to once every 10 days.
We did go smaller...smaller plants...2 less lights in bloom...yet almost tripled our yield! Grow smart, not hard. We started the op using brute force...lots of light, big ass plants, and just kept piling plants into the bloom room. This was ok to get some $$$ going. But, now we want to maximize our space. We are thinking about expanding, but are waiting until the current op is operating as efficiently as possible.

How many lights are you running now? Got some pics?

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After looking at a bunch of sprayers, I'm thinking of going with this atomizer.
http://www.amazon.com/Hudson-99598-Electric-Atomizer-Sprayer/dp/B001FWX3LK
It's a bit pricey but not compared with losing a crop. Have you seen one of these in action?

Right now I only have the one room above in bloom. This second room is offline until it gets cooler,



this is my ghetto greenhouse;




Basically my junk filled garage recycled for a higher purpose. The roof will get greenhouse film or polycarbonate when it gets colder at which point the addition of lights will make this a four-season green space. I'm liking the 'solar-assist'.

It's a multi-strain grow with Jack Herer, Grape Ape, SSH, Love Potion and an Afghani Kush. They've been vegging for 8 months, topped once and LST'd. These are the happiest, healthiest and largest plants I've grown so far and frankly I'm a bit intimidated. I really don't know how to manage that canopy correctly for this situation. The rig is a diy undercurrent design with plant centers at 36".

rosecitypapa said:

Great vid PakaloloHui!! That's the best I've seen on the subject so far.

In addition to searching the topic on other boards, I learned much about reptile lights and UVB from these links:
Chemical Ecology of Cannabis
Reptile lights and UVB
Radiance patterns of reptile lights

I have a 4'w x 6'd x 7'h space running a 600w vertical with a hydro flooded tube. I use one Reptisun CFL in a 12" metal reflector and a diy reflector for a Reptisun 18" uvb phosphor tube. The diy reflector was fashioned by splicing drip flashing, L bracket from scrap metal and a metal ceiling box. I matched the tube with spare ballasts and end clips from HD. ($20 total)This is hung vertically and basically creates a column (tear drop cross-section) within my vscrog.

The third link above is important in understanding the lighting distribution coming from these lamps with and without a reflector. It's a bit surprising that with uvb, polished metal actually amplifies the strength to detrimental levels at least for reptiles.

View attachment 1715077View attachment 1715080View attachment 1715079View attachment 1715076
View attachment 1715078



After looking at a bunch of sprayers, I'm thinking of going with this atomizer.
http://www.amazon.com/Hudson-99598-Electric-Atomizer-Sprayer/dp/B001FWX3LK
It's a bit pricey but not compared with losing a crop. Have you seen one of these in action?

Right now I only have the one room above in bloom. This second room is offline until it gets cooler,

View attachment 1715081

this is my ghetto greenhouse;

View attachment 1715096View attachment 1715094View attachment 1715092View attachment 1715095
View attachment 1715093

Basically my junk filled garage recycled for a higher purpose. The roof will get greenhouse film or polycarbonate when it gets colder at which point the addition of lights will make this a four-season green space. I'm liking the 'solar-assist'.

It's a multi-strain grow with Jack Herer, Grape Ape, SSH, Love Potion and an Afghani Kush. They've been vegging for 8 months, topped once and LST'd. These are the happiest, healthiest and largest plants I've grown so far and frankly I'm a bit intimidated. I really don't know how to manage that canopy correctly for this situation. The rig is a diy undercurrent design with plant centers at 36".

Click to expand...

That converted garage "solar assited" area looks fantastic, RoseCity. One thing I would do is to lightly thin out some of the larger fan leaves to allow some light penetration and air circulation deeper into the canopy. It will fill back in quite fast. Also, have you thinned out the bottoms and any areas that you feel are not going to produce grade A buds? In both indoor and outdoor crops I've had the best product by identifying the section of the plant that will produce the best product and remove all the rest. On these plants the outside 18" or so may be the real $$$ and the inside whispy stuff is just stealing energy from the outside primo stuff. It's also a great breeding ground for PM and pests. Other than that, the crop looks healthy as fuck. Is there going to be a method by which to kill all light 12 hrs a day any time of the year?

collective gardener said:

That converted garage "solar assited" area looks fantastic, RoseCity. One thing I would do is to lightly thin out some of the larger fan leaves to allow some light penetration and air circulation deeper into the canopy. It will fill back in quite fast. Also, have you thinned out the bottoms and any areas that you feel are not going to produce grade A buds? In both indoor and outdoor crops I've had the best product by identifying the section of the plant that will produce the best product and remove all the rest. On these plants the outside 18" or so may be the real $$$ and the inside whispy stuff is just stealing energy from the outside primo stuff. It's also a great breeding ground for PM and pests. Other than that, the crop looks healthy as fuck. Is there going to be a method by which to kill all light 12 hrs a day any time of the year?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip CG. I get a bit emotional about pruning much but I do understand logically that it's better for plant health and yield all things considered. Should I worry at all about the canopy height? The fourth pic in my ghetto greenhouse is Love Potion and it's overgrowing everything else, would you top it back to keep it's height consistent with the others or just let it go?

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the overall health. I'm using Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro 9-3-6 product and it's NPK ratio is perfect. I've run the nutes as high as 2.0 EC (to test for overfert which didn't show) but now am running in between an EC of 1.0-1.2. It's just that and some Pro-tek (magnesium and silica) with a pinch of epsom salt to up my mag to get my calcium and mag ratio to 2:1. My pH drops daily though, I'm working on an diy arduino build with peristaltic pumps to help with that. It's either that, ion exchange resins or hp aero for me next - monitoring pH daily inhibits my traveling flexibility too much.

rosecitypapa said:

Thanks for the tip CG. I get a bit emotional about pruning much but I do understand logically that it's better for plant health and yield all things considered. Should I worry at all about the canopy height? The fourth pic in my ghetto greenhouse is Love Potion and it's overgrowing everything else, would you top it back to keep it's height consistent with the others or just let it go?

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the overall health. I'm using Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro 9-3-6 product and it's NPK ratio is perfect. I've run the nutes as high as 2.0 EC (to test for overfert which didn't show) but now am running in between an EC of 1.0-1.2. It's just that and some Pro-tek (magnesium and silica) with a pinch of epsom salt to up my mag to get my calcium and mag ratio to 2:1. My pH drops daily though, I'm working on an diy arduino build with peristaltic pumps to help with that. It's either that, ion exchange resins or hp aero for me next - monitoring pH daily inhibits my traveling flexibility too much.

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Rosecity,

Personally, I would not top them this time of year. You're really close to bloom beginning. Topping this close to the stretch may kill your yield.

I know pruning is a charged topic. If I was growing un-topped plants outdoors in the middle of a field I would not prune them at all. They will grow as nature taught them to and maximize their yield all by themselves. But, this is hardly the case with indoor plants, trained plants, closely spaced plants (your plants), or plants with limitted acces to the sun (also your plants). My theory on this is that the more we deviate from the plants natural state (outdoors in a field), the more we may have to alter the plants shape to maximize the yield.

Both myself and my "sister" grow op (40k watts) have done several side by side tests with pruned and un-pruned plants. Like most of us here, we are just trying to figure out the best way to maximize our yield of grade A product. Years ago (like 10+) we found that the strains we grow yielded more per sq ft if they were topped 1 time early on. We tried topping twice, but ended up with more smaller and less marketable buds. We aslo found that the best planting density for highest yield was 4 plants per sq ft. However, that's alot of plants with 200 sq ft of bloom space. So, as a comprimise, we grow 1 plant for every 1-2 sq ft.

For many years I refused to do any pruning. I would let the leaves die and fall off rather than prune. Then, my friend did a test. One tray he left alone, and another he removed any fan leaves that were overlapping other leaves. His yield went up a little. Then, we both started running tests. After dozens of test runs, we came up with what we do now. No leaves are removed in veg. When we go into bloom, we remove just a few inner fan leaves...just the really big ones. We remove a few every week. After the stretch, we remove any lower growth...leaves and shoots...that are not going to produce good sized buds. This usually means the lower 6" is bare. We also then remove enogh inner fan leaves to allow the light to reach the lower most sections. We also remove enough outer fan leaves to eliminate serious shading of the plant next to it. The goal is to let light reach the entire plant, but not get to the tray. This increased our yield by at least 20% over plants left alone. An added benefit is not ending up with a bunch of tiny little buds.

I just don't think that a plant's energy shoulf be wasted on growing small loose buds that are not appealing. We need to either let the light reach them, or remove them early on. I know many people don't agree with pruning. Also, many strains may not be suitable for this technique. Puse sativas are a good example. The branches are already spaced enough to let in the light. But, if you're getting alot of sub-standard buds, maybe try letting in some light and see what happens.

On a side note. In 1996 I read an article in High Times about a grower who planted 9 plants per sq ft! His yield was amazing. I had to try it. At this time there was no medical defense, so if you already had over 100 plants it really didn't make much difference if you had 300 or even 900...you were just as fucked. I placed 300 just rooted clones, all in 4" x 4" rockwool blocks, in a 4' x 8' tray lit by a pair of 1000 watt Son Agro HPS's. The plants were non-topped Northern Lights. The finished height was under a foot. Each plant yielded just over 1/4 ounce. That 4 x 8 tray yielded 5 fucking pounds! 2.5 ounces per sq ft. That was the best yield per sq ft or per light that I have ever had. Unfortunately, now that we're a legal collective with a plant count limit, this cannot be done again. But, If I were a closet grower, this is exactly what I would do.

good read CG...

I personally believe that most small grows shouldn't be pruned. But when dealing with large trees, it's almost necessary if applied correctly.
You guys should try removing those giant leaves as soon as they come from the plant, to save the plant from spending time growing it out.
I feel like it would direct more energy to desired branches/leaves without cutting back on too much solar panel surface area.

In the near future I want to take a classic 11"x21" seed starter tray, and do a SoG with about 9 plants per square foot.
I would do 18 plants per tray, and have the whole thing lit with a 150w CMH.
No veg time, all baby clones, goal is about 6" or less total height.
Each plant would have about 3"x3" space, with about 2" deep of root space.

They would only be alive for like 9-10 weeks total. And the goal is 2g-3.5g per plant.
That's about 36g-63g, perfect for a hobby grower/personal use smoker.
Sorry I just took a hit of some Lemon Skunk, and I'm rambling.

C.Indica said:

I personally believe that most small grows shouldn't be pruned. But when dealing with large trees, it's almost necessary if applied correctly.
You guys should try removing those giant leaves as soon as they come from the plant, to save the plant from spending time growing it out.
I feel like it would direct more energy to desired branches/leaves without cutting back on too much solar panel surface area.

In the near future I want to take a classic 11"x21" seed starter tray, and do a SoG with about 9 plants per square foot.
I would do 18 plants per tray, and have the whole thing lit with a 150w CMH.
No veg time, all baby clones, goal is about 6" or less total height.
Each plant would have about 3"x3" space, with about 2" deep of root space.

They would only be alive for like 9-10 weeks total. And the goal is 2g-3.5g per plant.
That's about 36g-63g, perfect for a hobby grower/personal use smoker.
Sorry I just took a hit of some Lemon Skunk, and I'm rambling.

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Your proposed micro-grow sounds fun. The challange with blooming just rooted cuts is blooming when roots have developed enough to actually grow a little without having established so much that they'll overtake the space. It's a fine line with a window of just a few days. You'll need some extra cuts so you can trash the fastest and slowest ones. Even canopy will be the trick here, especially with such a small light. This may be a good test for my 50 watt induction light. Hmmmmm.

collective gardener said:

Your proposed micro-grow sounds fun. The challange with blooming just rooted cuts is blooming when roots have developed enough to actually grow a little without having established so much that they'll overtake the space. It's a fine line with a window of just a few days. You'll need some extra cuts so you can trash the fastest and slowest ones. Even canopy will be the trick here, especially with such a small light. This may be a good test for my 50 watt induction light. Hmmmmm.

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I still have to get the setup though.. I don't want to ship lights and such to my house.
Hmm. I could also partition little cubes of dirt.
But I think timing it would be a lot more involved and easier in the long run. I'll learn as you said.

But I know you are aware of Vertical & Stadium grow methods.
It would be better to have the outer ring of clones be an inch or so taller. And have the innermost clones be shorter.
So maybe I could take the outer 12-14 a day or two before the other 4-6 clones.

The other problem is figuring out my medium.
I'm a soil grower with no intention of hydro, but I feel like filling a plastic tray with a bunch of dirt and no air flow is a disaster waiting to happen.
Thinking about doing like;
1/4 Perlite
1/4 Vermiculite
1/4 Peat Moss
1/4 Soil
If I can get all the ingredients.
Bad idea? What is a texture/recipe you'd recommend?

C.Indica said:

I still have to get the setup though.. I don't want to ship lights and such to my house.
Hmm. I could also partition little cubes of dirt.
But I think timing it would be a lot more involved and easier in the long run. I'll learn as you said.

But I know you are aware of Vertical & Stadium grow methods.
It would be better to have the outer ring of clones be an inch or so taller. And have the innermost clones be shorter.
So maybe I could take the outer 12-14 a day or two before the other 4-6 clones.

The other problem is figuring out my medium.
I'm a soil grower with no intention of hydro, but I feel like filling a plastic tray with a bunch of dirt and no air flow is a disaster waiting to happen.
Thinking about doing like;
1/4 Perlite
1/4 Vermiculite
1/4 Peat Moss
1/4 Soil
If I can get all the ingredients.
Bad idea? What is a texture/recipe you'd recommend?

Click to expand...

The micro grow really sounds like a fun gig. I think a typical seed starter tray will be too shallow for a soil grow. How bout 4" square pots? Having the plants in individual containers allows you to rotate the plants individually to maximize the light they recieve. Just the ability to rotate the outside plants 180 degrees will make it worth your while.

As far as plant height, even taking all of the clones at the same time will most likely produce plants that vary in height by at least the inch or so you're looking for. This should provide you with some taller plants for the outside and some shorter ones for the middle. Honestly, with the tiny sized plants we're talking about, it shouldn't make too much difference.

I've used a very similar soil mix to the one you've proposed. As much as I hate to admit it, I grew organic for many years...back when I was a Granola Head. I still help out a friend with her greenhouse organic grow. We use Roots Organic potting soil and just add about 20% perlite to it. That stuff is amazing. One look at the ingedients convinced me that it was worth a try. My friend is an elderly woman who has a hard time mixing liquid nutes and making teas, so 90% of the feeding is done with just what's in the soil and top dressings. When I visit every couple weeks, I'll mix up some liquid organic nutes and give them a good feeding. ( rambling...sorry...took a big ass Lavander hit) My point is, you may want to give the Roots Organic a try. If you want to use the mix you proposed, I'd increase the perlite to 1/3 or so. Personally, I like to make soil light enough that it's impossible to overwater. It may require daily waterings, but a lighter mix watered daily will outperform a heavy mix watered every few days.

I'll be curious to see what you can do with this little grow. Be sure to start a thread and send us a link. I know that many of us get just as exited about 400 watt grows as 40,000 watt grows. Good Luck!!!

very nice thread lad sikk plants sikk pics... excellent..rep given

Thanks, Mate. The next round of pics should show some real progress. The big blooming moms are 6.5 weeks into bloom. They're breaking branches from the new weight. e've been flushing for over a week, yet leaves are still very green. There are some mites on the big mother plants in bloom. Nothing compared to what we had a couple months back. We've been able to keep the bugs off of all other plants, though. I'll have pics in a day or so.

cant wait pal..