2014 Backyard Grow

FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
ruby fruit said:
just a quick one fresno ir there an ideal range for NPK fertilisers?either slow release or liquid feeds?
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I wouldn't know lol. I don't put too much thought into it. I think that any all purpose fert for veg works rather well. Like 20-20-20 or 16-16-16. I have used 24-8-16 before with good results. I was using a 5-1-1 fish emulsion as a base fert but when I switched over to 16-16-16 Maxsea I noticed greener leaves and happier plants within a couple days. For flowering I like to still have a little nitrogen in the mix. Some people try to cut it out completely, which I find quite silly. If you hit a N deficiency in flower not a very big surprise, right? I have used a 5-11-11 fish emulsion solution for flowering with great results. When I make guano tea's I don't really pay much attention to NPK either. But the NPK is much similar to my liquid and powder nutes I'm sure. That is a very good question though Ruby. I'm sure different strains may want more N or more P or more K. But in general I have heard 1-3-2 NPK for flowering is pretty much ideal.

@Urhighness88 I spray in the late evening because a lot of insects come out at night time to feed. I'm guessing they like the cooler temps at night and being able to chow down without the sun beating down on them. Early morning works as well too, but in my opinion it is better to spray in the evening because the solution is still fresh on the foliage and has not been degraded by the sun yet. Which results in the insects taking in a stronger solution rather than after a whole day UV rays degrading it.

I need to start spraying with some Spinosad. I'm starting to get thrips. Gotta nip this in the bud fast. Before the plants head into flowering. I have heard thrips are rather easy to get rid of with Spinosad. I sprayed with neem oil to no avail. I also have some......I wanna call them click beetles in my veg greenhouse. They look like click beetles to me. My research tells me that they eat aphids and or small insect of that nature. But it also tells me that some click beetles will feed on plants and the larvae will eat the roots. I am contemplating blasting the greenhouse with neem. I dont want to kill any innocent beetles though.
 
Urhighness88

Urhighness88

Well-Known Member
Alright I'll have to try spraying tonight but I have sprayed before and it fucked up all the tips almost burning then I don't know if it was the brand I was.using or what but I lost about a month to recover from it. Don't wanna do it to my girls this time
 
ruby fruit

ruby fruit

Well-Known Member
FresnoFarmer said:
I wouldn't know lol. I don't put too much thought into it. I think that any all purpose fert for veg works rather well. Like 20-20-20 or 16-16-16. I have used 24-8-16 before with good results. I was using a 5-1-1 fish emulsion as a base fert but when I switched over to 16-16-16 Maxsea I noticed greener leaves and happier plants within a couple days. For flowering I like to still have a little nitrogen in the mix. Some people try to cut it out completely, which I find quite silly. If you hit a N deficiency in flower not a very big surprise, right? I have used a 5-11-11 fish emulsion solution for flowering with great results. When I make guano tea's I don't really pay much attention to NPK either. But the NPK is much similar to my liquid and powder nutes I'm sure. That is a very good question though Ruby. I'm sure different strains may want more N or more P or more K. But in general I have heard 1-3-2 NPK for flowering is pretty much ideal.

@Urhighness88 I spray in the late evening because a lot of insects come out at night time to feed. I'm guessing they like the cooler temps at night and being able to chow down without the sun beating down on them. Early morning works as well too, but in my opinion it is better to spray in the evening because the solution is still fresh on the foliage and has not been degraded by the sun yet. Which results in the insects taking in a stronger solution rather than after a whole day UV rays degrading it.

I need to start spraying with some Spinosad. I'm starting to get thrips. Gotta nip this in the bud fast. Before the plants head into flowering. I have heard thrips are rather easy to get rid of with Spinosad. I sprayed with neem oil to no avail. I also have some......I wanna call them click beetles in my veg greenhouse. They look like click beetles to me. My research tells me that they eat aphids and or small insect of that nature. But it also tells me that some click beetles will feed on plants and the larvae will eat the roots. I am contemplating blasting the greenhouse with neem. I dont want to kill any innocent beetles though.
Click to expand...
appreciate the time you have taken to answer this question fresno....: )
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
@Urhighness88 Yeah. I jumped on the bandwagon lol. I usually wouldn't, but Maxsea is cheap and alot of the good growers on this site swear by it. It is also hard to burn with the stuff. Its water soluble and organic based so thats a plus. I have heard good things about humic acid. I might have to get some BioAg FulPower. Maybe the brand of spray you used was too concentrated. I have had small leaf tip burn with Neem Oil before when I mixed up a strong batch. Just proceed with caution.

@ruby fruit No problem. You actual made me start researching ideal NPK ratios now. I am finding it interesting. People are saying different NPK ratios for all different stages of growth. Like Veg 1, Veg2, Flower 1, Flower 2, and Flower 3.
 
ruby fruit

ruby fruit

Well-Known Member
FresnoFarmer said:
@Urhighness88 Yeah. I jumped on the bandwagon lol. I usually wouldn't, but Maxsea is cheap and alot of the good growers on this site swear by it. It is also hard to burn with the stuff. Its water soluble and organic based so thats a plus. I have heard good things about humic acid. I might have to get some BioAg FulPower. Maybe the brand of spray you used was too concentrated. I have had small leaf tip burn with Neem Oil before when I mixed up a strong batch. Just proceed with caution.

@ruby fruit No problem. You actual made me start researching ideal NPK ratios now. I am finding it interesting. People are saying different NPK ratios for all different stages of growth. Like Veg 1, Veg2, Flower 1, Flower 2, and Flower 3.
Click to expand...
I actually posted this in a new thread under the "organics" section fresno some of the answers are worth a read for sure...one guy reckons NPK is a marketing scheme so that was interesting
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
Spinosad kicks ass on thrips. Soak the plant well. You will probably have to spray for them again later, thrips tend to come back. I usually spray to get rid of them and wait til I see signs that came back then hit them again.
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
@Krspies Thank you. I sure hope so. I have a feeling it will be. This year I have really put my time and a few extra dollars into doing everything right.

@BWG707 Spinosad does kick ass on thrips from what I hear. I super soaked the plant with some Captain Jack's last night. I also found a praying mantis and stuck him in there to do some clean up. Hopefully he sticks around through flowering. I hear spinosad kicks ass on budworms to so I think I will spray with it once a week until the 2nd week of flowering. I have been having to kill lots of moths and catch and release lots of butterflies lately. I don't need any bastard worms eating up my cannabis.
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
I've used spinosad for budworms with good results. Also BT will work well and is what most people suggest. I've heard rotating the two will work great also.
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
BWG707 said:
I've used spinosad for budworms with good results. Also BT will work well and is what most people suggest. I've heard rotating the two will work great also.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Bt works good for caterpillars and worms. I need to pick some more up. I was planning on alternating spinosad and Bt. Only problem with Bt is that it isnt a very broad spectrum pesticide. But works great on worms.
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
@ruby fruit I found this post regarding NPK on IC Mag:

As far as n-p-k ratios the best thing I can tell you is that most people have no clue what they are talking about. If you look at plant tissue analyses you will see that there is very little difference in nutritional requirements for plants in vegetative and flowering growth. Im sure there will be a bunch of wanna be pseudoscientists who will claim I am wrong but I can refer you to dozens of texts which show this not only to be true in cannabis but also every other fruiting and flowering plant on the planet. You could run an excellent grow with a 3-2-4 solution the entire way through. You can manipulate the plant into a faster transition with a drop in nitrogen and a spike in phosphorous and could potentially increase essential oil production with high p levels but you could also hermie your plants out if you do too much.

Did you know that a 10-10-10 solution is not actually 10-10-10 when it comes to the actual elemental content? If you look at the derived from section on the bottles you can see that P is listed as p2o5. This means there are 5 oxygen atoms attached to the two phosphorous and that oxygen is included in the calculation of the 10-10-10 ratio. To figure out the true phosphorous content you need to subtract the molecular weight of the oxygen from the equation and you end up with roughly 43% of the actual number being P. The same goes for K. It is represented as K20. So, you removed the weight of the oxygen molecule and end up with something like 84% of the original value. Therefore, a 10-10-10 formula is actually 10 - 4.2 - 8.4 give or take.

Doesn't this completely change your thinking? Im sure people reading this are saying "how do people not talk about this?" Thats right everyone, this huge concept of n-p-k ratios on the front of the bottle doesn't even represent the actual ratios you are giving to your plant.


I could go on for a few pages about this so I'll try and keep it quick. Your plants will do their best to absorb what they need from your solution. High levels of P are way over hyped, yes, but as I said they can serve a purpose. Stressing the plant for more essential oil production being the primary one. The low nitrogen is supposed to help the plant devote energy to flower growth not leaf growth. Once you cut the 12% P down to its actual elemental content you are at more like 5, and the K comes down to about 5 as well. 3-5-5 actual ratios are pretty decent. High phosphorous but not too high, low nitrogen but not to low, plenty of K.

HOWEVER

From a scientific standpoint, you should be able to use something like a 4-1-4 (actual concentration) formula the entire way through. The fact that plants do well on so many different ratios from so many different companies and products proves one thing:


Ratios are way over hyped. Bloom formulas and boosters are way over hyped. Give your plants high quality, complete formulas that are in reasonable ratios and you will have good results. Environmental factors are much more influential than people give credit for. The plant needs a 12-12 light cycle to flower, the bloom formulas are just our attempt to enhance that (and for companies to make more money.) I haven't done it yet but I plan to do a test using Foliage-Pro or Grow the entire way through with just a one week switch to bloom when I switch to 12-12. Then back to Foliage-Pro or Grow + Mag-Pro for some extra sulfur (higher levels of sulfur increase essential oil production. Don't believe me? READ A FUCKIN BOOK) The switch for week one of flower would be to assist the plant to transition faster as there is evidence that a drop in nitrogen and spike in phosphorous can speed up the transition. The actual nutritional REQUIREMENTS change very little though, so after the first week I'll go back to the original formula.
 
ruby fruit

ruby fruit

Well-Known Member
FresnoFarmer said:
@ruby fruit I found this post regarding NPK on IC Mag:

As far as n-p-k ratios the best thing I can tell you is that most people have no clue what they are talking about. If you look at plant tissue analyses you will see that there is very little difference in nutritional requirements for plants in vegetative and flowering growth. Im sure there will be a bunch of wanna be pseudoscientists who will claim I am wrong but I can refer you to dozens of texts which show this not only to be true in cannabis but also every other fruiting and flowering plant on the planet. You could run an excellent grow with a 3-2-4 solution the entire way through. You can manipulate the plant into a faster transition with a drop in nitrogen and a spike in phosphorous and could potentially increase essential oil production with high p levels but you could also hermie your plants out if you do too much.

Did you know that a 10-10-10 solution is not actually 10-10-10 when it comes to the actual elemental content? If you look at the derived from section on the bottles you can see that P is listed as p2o5. This means there are 5 oxygen atoms attached to the two phosphorous and that oxygen is included in the calculation of the 10-10-10 ratio. To figure out the true phosphorous content you need to subtract the molecular weight of the oxygen from the equation and you end up with roughly 43% of the actual number being P. The same goes for K. It is represented as K20. So, you removed the weight of the oxygen molecule and end up with something like 84% of the original value. Therefore, a 10-10-10 formula is actually 10 - 4.2 - 8.4 give or take.

Doesn't this completely change your thinking? Im sure people reading this are saying "how do people not talk about this?" Thats right everyone, this huge concept of n-p-k ratios on the front of the bottle doesn't even represent the actual ratios you are giving to your plant.


I could go on for a few pages about this so I'll try and keep it quick. Your plants will do their best to absorb what they need from your solution. High levels of P are way over hyped, yes, but as I said they can serve a purpose. Stressing the plant for more essential oil production being the primary one. The low nitrogen is supposed to help the plant devote energy to flower growth not leaf growth. Once you cut the 12% P down to its actual elemental content you are at more like 5, and the K comes down to about 5 as well. 3-5-5 actual ratios are pretty decent. High phosphorous but not too high, low nitrogen but not to low, plenty of K.

HOWEVER

From a scientific standpoint, you should be able to use something like a 4-1-4 (actual concentration) formula the entire way through. The fact that plants do well on so many different ratios from so many different companies and products proves one thing:


Ratios are way over hyped. Bloom formulas and boosters are way over hyped. Give your plants high quality, complete formulas that are in reasonable ratios and you will have good results. Environmental factors are much more influential than people give credit for. The plant needs a 12-12 light cycle to flower, the bloom formulas are just our attempt to enhance that (and for companies to make more money.) I haven't done it yet but I plan to do a test using Foliage-Pro or Grow the entire way through with just a one week switch to bloom when I switch to 12-12. Then back to Foliage-Pro or Grow + Mag-Pro for some extra sulfur (higher levels of sulfur increase essential oil production. Don't believe me? READ A FUCKIN BOOK) The switch for week one of flower would be to assist the plant to transition faster as there is evidence that a drop in nitrogen and spike in phosphorous can speed up the transition. The actual nutritional REQUIREMENTS change very little though, so after the first week I'll go back to the original formula.
Click to expand...
awesome mate you have been very helpful gd karma is coming your way with a budrot free harvest : ) hope that don't sound to gay ha ha .IC mag what is that?
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
@ruby fruit Made lots of sense to me as well. And thanks. I learn, you learn. Vice versa. Icmag-International Cannagraphic Magazine is another site similar to this with forums and such. I don't post on many other forum sites. I mostly lurk.
 
BcDigger

BcDigger

Well-Known Member
Hopefully things work out ok. My temps are supposed to be right where I want em so far but I'm supposed to have an extra hot summer this year.
 

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