3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
if my nutes have enough P and K (they do), adding more does nothing. sorry dude, not buying your BS.

I don't think it's "BS", plenty of agri research conducted on P + K and crop yields. I am advocating the addition of a salt at a particular time in flowering based on science. Not peddling a snake oil product. You don't think MKP works, don't use it. KISS

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rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's "BS", plenty of agri research conducted on P + K and crop yields. I am advocating the addition of a salt at a particular time in flowering based on science. Not peddling a snake oil product. You don't think MKP works, don't use it. KISS

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you don't seem to understand. i'll try again: if your nutes have enough P and K, adding more does nothing. plants don't eat more nutes just because you add them. that's not how things work.

if i can eat a 16 oz filet mignon but no more, giving me a 22 oz filet does nothing. get it?
 

Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
you don't seem to understand. i'll try again: if your nutes have enough P and K, adding more does nothing. plants don't eat more nutes just because you add them. that's not how things work.

if i can eat a 16 oz filet mignon but no more, giving me a 22 oz filet does nothing. get it?
You seem a bit hostile with your ignorance. Your plants will benefit from additional P + K after week three of flower. Cannabis nutrient need shifts to these elements at this time. Jack's doesn't have the P or K to min/max this nutrient push in my experience. It's a base nutrient. The point is, you're leaving yield on the table, assuming your grow is dialed in, which might not be the case with you, and that is fine. Jack's serves all of us well enough as a stand-alone.
 
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Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
Next time someone tells you that you need a PK booster in flower you tell 'em :)

Fair enough - I just think enough agriculture research has been poured into these crops and similar to conclude P and K used at the right growth stage is easy and effective. And I do not think any base nutrient supplies the optimal amount when it's needed - and it shouldn't. That's the beauty of these base nutrient programs. You get good results leaving it as is, and you can push things even further by the addition of simple inputs timed correctly. No doubt people are overfertilizing. Overferting and lockouts because of it are the most common mistake you see on cannabis forums I think. I love the picture of your plant stalk a few pages back, really cool.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
I've never seen any noticeable increase in yield with PK boosters myself. The only thing I've seen PK boosters do is lead to excessive ppms and high runoff.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Fair enough - I just think enough agriculture research has been poured into these crops and similar to conclude P and K used at the right growth stage is easy and effective. And I do not think any base nutrient supplies the optimal amount when it's needed - and it shouldn't. That's the beauty of these base nutrient programs. You get good results leaving it as is, and you can push things even further by the addition of simple inputs timed correctly. No doubt people are overfertilizing. Overferting and lockouts because of it are the most common mistake you see on cannabis forums I think. I love the picture of your plant stalk a few pages back, really cool.
The world needs gardeners like you to figure out the complicated shit for simpletons like me :)

Some days I have enough trouble putting one foot in front of the other. There will be little to no complex thoughts for me in the near future. I'm balding enough as it is :)
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's "BS", plenty of agri research conducted on P + K and crop yields. I am advocating the addition of a salt at a particular time in flowering based on science. Not peddling a snake oil product. You don't think MKP works, don't use it. KISS

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While I appreciate that graph, it leaves many questions unanswered. Specifically, what was the feed program, which lead to the results shown in the graph? If a different program was used, would the results change? Most likely. Things to think about.
 

p0opstlnksal0t

Well-Known Member
We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue.
Post harvest dry and cure plays a far greater role in how the dried flowers burn. Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers
 

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
I'm still learning this stuff.
Some use the same all thru, such as 321. With success.
Some use different ratios, with success.

optimal-npk-values-growing-cannabis-sm.jpg

I have fried some plant tissue with PK boosters. Also had success.

Megacrop 2-Part is near identical copy of Jacks 5-12-26.

Their feeding recipes can work for Jacks users. I have not tried their recipes.
MC2-Bag-Feed-Chart-with-Ratios.png
(I added the epsom)
 
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Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
While I appreciate that graph, it leaves many questions unanswered. Specifically, what was the feed program, which lead to the results shown in the graph? If a different program was used, would the results change? Most likely. Things to think about.
This isn't a new frontier in cannabis growing. Soil Testing along with tissue analysis of crops has been used and is being used to increase production across the planet. I do understand the point of concern you're making. You're using it and comparing it to what is known about cannabis nutrient requirements in various stages of growth and using it to guide you, not only in making sure you're supplying the right thing at the right time, but also that you're not oversupplying one as you antagonize another. It's a tool to use. It's well understood what nutrient ratios cannabis and similar crops require at various growth stages to "min/max" production.

Decent info for further reading, cannabis tailored:


 
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Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
The world needs gardeners like you to figure out the complicated shit for simpletons like me :)

Some days I have enough trouble putting one foot in front of the other. There will be little to no complex thoughts for me in the near future. I'm balding enough as it is :)
I dunno, you might be underselling yourself. You have a really nice grow, even if you consider it simple. I'd say you're well past the point of simple growing even if you've made it easy. I do understand and respect your ethos.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Post harvest dry and cure plays a far greater role in how the dried flowers burn. Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers
Edit:

When you tell me it doesn't matter how much P or K you feed a plant as it relates to flavor and burn qualities of the finished flowers what I hear is, "It doesn't matter what you feed your plants." It's kind of like a, "plant food is plant food perspective" that I disagree with. That's like saying a person that eats Mcdonald's 3 meals a day is just as healthy and vibrant a human being as a person that eats 3 healthy meals per day. See how silly that analogy sounds?

What you feed your plants matters. Bottom line. Don't even get me started discussing heavy metals. I'm too effing tired :)

Curing and drying are very important. I disagree with you regarding fertilizer as it relates to flavor and burn qualities. Maxi bloom grown flowers taste like shit. Jack's 5-12-26 using the same formula start to finish produced soil quality flavor and burn qualities. Now I don't mean to get all technical on ya here, but the proof is in the pudding. Don't go around sharing my secret with anyone :)
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I dunno, you might be underselling yourself. You have a really nice grow, even if you consider it simple. I'd say you're well past the point of simple growing even if you've made it easy. I do understand and respect your ethos.
Thank you for the kind words. It's mostly a lot of grunt work day to day. I'm actually reducing next cycle. Tired of the work load. I want to enjoy doing it again. At this point it's just a lot of labor.
 

Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the kind words. It's mostly a lot of grunt work day to day. I'm actually reducing next cycle. Tired of the work load. I want to enjoy doing it again. At this point it's just a lot of labor.
Automate! I'd go back to a closet grow if I had to mix, hand water, and other chores daily. Automation, more smoking less working.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Your plants will benefit from additional P + K after week three of flower.
no they don't. mine get plenty. never had a P or K deficiency. sounds like your base nutes aren't up to par.

if you have 50ppm or 5000 ppm of P , if they only need 30ppm, you're still an ignorant dumb shite .

aloha means good-bye. i remember you now: youre' the guy saying that chlorine and peroxide don't work.
 

p0opstlnksal0t

Well-Known Member
Edit:

When you tell me it doesn't matter how much P or K you feed a plant as it relates to flavor and burn qualities of the finished flowers what I hear is, "It doesn't matter what you feed your plants." It's kind of like a, "plant food is plant food perspective" that I disagree with. That's like saying a person that eats Mcdonald's 3 meals a day is just as healthy and vibrant a human being as a person that eats 3 healthy meals per day. See how silly that analogy sounds?

What you feed your plants matters. Bottom line. Don't even get me started discussing heavy metals. I'm too effing tired :)

Curing and drying are very important. I disagree with you regarding fertilizer as it relates to flavor and burn qualities. Maxi bloom grown flowers taste like shit. Jack's 5-12-26 using the same formula start to finish produced soil quality flavor and burn qualities. Now I don't mean to get all technical on ya here, but the proof is in the pudding. Don't go around sharing my secret with anyone :)
Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers
 
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