4 day working week.

StonerCol said:

@Fogdog Just to add something to your response, a UK perspective.......
During the financial turmoils of the past 9 years or so the Bank of England printed more and more money. What did they do with that money? They gave it to the very banks who had created the problem in the first place. Those banks then used it for their own means instead of putting it back into the parts of the system that needed it, i.e. the poor/middle class people who were struggling.

Our government could have given much of that money to the people who would have then spent it within the economy, on things they needed/wanted. That would then regenerate the economy to an extent. But the Right Wing governments don't give anything to the people, they only take from us.
So now the people are having to pay back that money that was given to the banks. It is so fucked up. If you wrote this down on a piece of paper as a financial strategy 99.99% of economists would say it is crazy and bound to lead to more misery. Unfortunately the Right Wing don't give a fuck.

So, when people like @blu3bird go on about people like us wanting something for nothing they completely fail to understand that the system rewards the banks failure by giving them even more money that you and I have to subsidise.
It's basically like me robbing you of $100 on the street and when I get caught by the police, instead of me having to pay you the money back, you are made to pay me another $100.

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StonerCol said:

@Fogdog Just to add something to your response, a UK perspective.......
During the financial turmoils of the past 9 years or so the Bank of England printed more and more money. What did they do with that money? They gave it to the very banks who had created the problem in the first place. Those banks then used it for their own means instead of putting it back into the parts of the system that needed it, i.e. the poor/middle class people who were struggling.

Our government could have given much of that money to the people who would have then spent it within the economy, on things they needed/wanted. That would then regenerate the economy to an extent. But the Right Wing governments don't give anything to the people, they only take from us.
So now the people are having to pay back that money that was given to the banks. It is so fucked up. If you wrote this down on a piece of paper as a financial strategy 99.99% of economists would say it is crazy and bound to lead to more misery. Unfortunately the Right Wing don't give a fuck.

So, when people like @blu3bird go on about people like us wanting something for nothing they completely fail to understand that the system rewards the banks failure by giving them even more money that you and I have to subsidise.
It's basically like me robbing you of $100 on the street and when I get caught by the police, instead of me having to pay you the money back, you are made to pay me another $100.

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StonerCol said:

Also the money markets are a system that only helps the rich. Betting upon whether the value of a currency/commodity will go up or down is just such a fucking stupid idea.
One thing that should tell everybody that the system is fucked is the fact that financial crimes are more heavily punished than crimes against people, generally speaking. If I kill someone I can claim temporary insanity or diminished responsibility, claim manslaughter instead of murder or a few other tricks and I'll probably serve maybe 7-10 years or so. If I steal a large amount of money in some kind of fraud I'll quite likely go to prison for at least 7-10 or even longer.
Money is literally more valuable than a human life.

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Fogdog said:

The comparison with the US is valid. One difference is the US is still sold on the myth of rags to riches as the opportunity everybody is granted by living in the US. Actually, mobility in the US is less than most developed western countries, including the UK.

NPR (our watered down equivalent to BBC) did an interview with Richard Reeves, a UK expat on this subject:

In his forthcoming book, Dream Hoarders, Reeves argues that the top 20 percent of Americans — those with six-figure incomes and above — dominate the best schools, live in the best-located homes and pass on the best futures to their kids.

"They are members of the American upper-middle class, who, through various ways of rigging the market ... are essentially hoarding the American dream," he tells NPR's Steve Inskeep.

I never thought I'd say this but I sort of miss the class consciousness of my old country which I grew up hating. The reason I miss it is because at least we're aware of it. It seems to me that...

in the U.S. you have a class system that operates every bit as ruthlessly as the British class system but under the veneer of classless meritocracy. There isn't even a self awareness.

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/31/530843665/top-20-percent-of-americans-hoard-the-american-dream

@blu3bird is a symptom of US entitlement. He scratched his way to middle class, sure, and now he's part of the system holding down everybody else. Not through is actions but through his ignorance and the way he votes.

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ttystikk said:

I've been saying similar things here for years, this article is brilliant. Thanks for posting it.

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blu3bird said:

@Fogdog
I was born and raised in Detroit, in a predominantly black neighborhood. How's that for advantage or privilege? We were just as poor as our neighbors.

So having two parents that teach you the basics of life is some kind of privilege? I can't tell if your serious or trolling.

I have never cast shade at anyone, or torn anyone down, how is telling and expecting someone to live within their means doing that?

You're the one casting shade, angry, calling me names because I've made my own way, saying I've had some unfair advantage over the next guy. Why does that get your panties in a bunch?

PS
You should start a thread about how white rural Americans are failing because they expect everything to be handed to them. You won't hurt my feelings, I have thick skin. I'll definitely agree with you though on one thing, alot of Americans expect free shit.

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blu3bird said:

@Fogdog
I was born and raised in Detroit, in a predominantly black neighborhood. How's that for advantage or privilege? We were just as poor as our neighbors.

alot of Americans expect free shit.

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Fogdog said:

Your own personal story is your own. And yes, I call you fortunate to be born into a stable household where you saw how people can succeed. In this I call you lucky, not entitled. The entitlement comes from your male gender and white skin. It's another lucky event that gave you less melanin in your skin, a dick and for some reason, makes you less likely to be overlooked in school, shot by cops, turned down by employers, paid less in wages for same work, sexually harassed by the boss and made to feel like a criminal just by walking down a store aisle. That you take it for granted makes you entitled. As far as the rest of your story goes, I think you are a loser. With all the advantages you were born to, you grew up to become a grasping back biting little bitch. Your economic status doesn't make up for your failings.

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blu3bird said:

Holy shit, I'm sorry you're such a bitter and miserable person.

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Fogdog said:

aaaaand meltdown. Thank you very much

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Navyaero said:

This type of thinking is what created Venezuela.

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UncleBuck said:

no, that was the fault of an oil-dependent economy having to deal with a worldwide lowering of oil prices.

you are a retarded person.

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ttystikk said:

Is he @cool2burn ?

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StonerCol said:

I agree. The system does need changing. Also the way people think and debate needs changing. If I say I don't like blue, people automatically assume I'm red and attack it whereas all I'm saying is I don't like blue.

The politicians can't get away with a 1 Party State but they like a 2 Party State because they have 50% chance of being in power. If we had 4 political parties that statistic probability reduces to 25%. In effect this means that politicians have to work harder to get out vote because we have more choice. A bit like if you have a choice between 1 car manufacturer or 4. Choice and competition are good for us but not so much for the ruling classes.

I agree that one system will not work for all. What we need to do is get away from labels. People use labels to shut down debate. If I propose a certain policy, the people that don't like it look to label it in the worst possible terms instead of debating the issue. People get called "Commies" when they have perhaps a left-leaning slant to their politics. Then the masses - or the less eductaed part of that demographic - shout "Commis scum" and so that label sticks, aided by the Right Wing press and that policy is kicked to the kerb instead of haing an open and honest debate about it.

We need a set of policies that work for the majority. Whatever labels are cynically attached to those policies doesn't matter. It's the results that copunt, not the means by which they are achieved.

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ttystikk said:

Is he @cool2burn ?

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Fogdog said:

Do the math chowder head. Do you have any idea what a money supply is? It's the total amount of money available in the US. More than half of all that money is in the hands of 1% in the country. Of what's left, half is in the hands of people who make more than 50,000. This leaves a fraction to be divided among half of everybody - the "working poor" income levels. And you say to them, just make more. There isn't more. Unless we start distributing wealth more equitably.

The rest of your whine is about you. Nice story, bro. It has nothing to do with the point I made that "just make more" is a ridiculous thing to say. It works for a few, you I suppose but it's hardly meaningful to half of all workers in the country.

And yes, you grew up with two white parents who taught you the basics. Probably in a mostly white neighborhood where you saw how other people made it. Was that your doing? Nope, you won the genetic lottery and were born into a relatively good situation. Instead of appreciating your good fortune, you cast shade on people who weren't born lucky like you. I could go into how white rural america is failing because they expect it all to be handed to them and are tearing down everybody else without even recognizing they have it better than the people they are tearing down. But I won't. Because it hurts white men's feelings.

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Rob Roy said:

View attachment 3968396

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