400w RDWC, Arduino Controlled - Starbud & Sour Amnesia
- Thread starter Devish
- Start date
Devish
Member
I piped the o3 into my res to rid pythium. Damn, that stuff is tough. I ran the o3 generator long enough to give a dose that should kill anything (including myself). Roots are still brown and slimey. WTF? How is that even possible?
Hate to say it, but I'm almost ready to give up on this grow.
Hate to say it, but I'm almost ready to give up on this grow.
Devish
Member
Plants are limping along, still. Changed RES, again. Water was clear with light, dead particulate on bottom of buckets. Pulled netpots to find.. Slime. STILL ON ROOTS!! WTF?
Washed roots in a bucket with 20ml/g h2o2. All plants showing signs of new root growth, some more than others. Refilled RES, added Subculture M & B.
Will give it one more week... but this is turning into a full-time job nursing these plants along. No real growth in one week.
Washed roots in a bucket with 20ml/g h2o2. All plants showing signs of new root growth, some more than others. Refilled RES, added Subculture M & B.
Will give it one more week... but this is turning into a full-time job nursing these plants along. No real growth in one week.
Devish
Member
Post #334422 - A New Hope
Root washings continue, today with just water. Roots had some slime, not much. Roots into the water are dwindling. There is a lot of new root growth on one Sour Amnesia, the others have signs of some new root growth. Some new growth on top, although it is slow, and gnarly.
PH was 6.5 adjusted down to 5.7
Alcohol wiped areas around netpots and added new foil over tops.
Not worthy of a magazine cover (yet), but if you're curious - it looks like this now.
Starbud 1 & 2
Sour Amnesia 1 & 2
Root washings continue, today with just water. Roots had some slime, not much. Roots into the water are dwindling. There is a lot of new root growth on one Sour Amnesia, the others have signs of some new root growth. Some new growth on top, although it is slow, and gnarly.
PH was 6.5 adjusted down to 5.7
Alcohol wiped areas around netpots and added new foil over tops.
Not worthy of a magazine cover (yet), but if you're curious - it looks like this now.
Starbud 1 & 2
Sour Amnesia 1 & 2
Devish
Member
1/5 - did a complete system clean, flushed res and refilled.
What a difference a few days make! Beneficial microbes were not working.. so I am going 'sterile' again. I was losing the battle against the brown algae - it was time for some drastic measures.
I TOTALLY cleaned out the system. Drained, flushed the buckets, flushed again, and again with a strong h2o2 solution running through the pipes! Then, wiped it all down with strong h2o2. Found lots of SHIT (bacterial clumps of growth) coming out of my piping. Took FOREVER.. but the system is nearly surgical clean again. Refilled with Clear Rez and ran the system.
I took out each plant and removed any dead roots, cleaned up what was left, flushed minimal roots with some h2o2 water.
One day later... new roots are popping out everywhere, plants appear to be back on the road to recovery.. new growth, plants are straightening out. Glad I kept with it, this grow has been challenging, but I've learned a ton.
I've been trying to guesstimate the oxidizing level in the RES. I bought some pool test-strips to measure total and free chlorine. A part of science I never knew about and have not heard mentioned on the forums. Basically, you want a specific amount of free chlorine in the system as a sterilizer... but if you have bacteria - your levels are constantly being absorbed / used. The 'minimal level' is unknowable without a way to measure. The first test-strips I got are not accurate enough, so I found some better ones on amazon that are EPA certified for drinking water and will measure (so they claim) down to .01ppm. Perfect, will update when I get them and try - this should allow me to control the sanitizer (Clear Rez) like any other aspect of the grow.
Will update with some photos in the near future... things are looking pretty good.
What a difference a few days make! Beneficial microbes were not working.. so I am going 'sterile' again. I was losing the battle against the brown algae - it was time for some drastic measures.
I TOTALLY cleaned out the system. Drained, flushed the buckets, flushed again, and again with a strong h2o2 solution running through the pipes! Then, wiped it all down with strong h2o2. Found lots of SHIT (bacterial clumps of growth) coming out of my piping. Took FOREVER.. but the system is nearly surgical clean again. Refilled with Clear Rez and ran the system.
I took out each plant and removed any dead roots, cleaned up what was left, flushed minimal roots with some h2o2 water.
One day later... new roots are popping out everywhere, plants appear to be back on the road to recovery.. new growth, plants are straightening out. Glad I kept with it, this grow has been challenging, but I've learned a ton.
I've been trying to guesstimate the oxidizing level in the RES. I bought some pool test-strips to measure total and free chlorine. A part of science I never knew about and have not heard mentioned on the forums. Basically, you want a specific amount of free chlorine in the system as a sterilizer... but if you have bacteria - your levels are constantly being absorbed / used. The 'minimal level' is unknowable without a way to measure. The first test-strips I got are not accurate enough, so I found some better ones on amazon that are EPA certified for drinking water and will measure (so they claim) down to .01ppm. Perfect, will update when I get them and try - this should allow me to control the sanitizer (Clear Rez) like any other aspect of the grow.
Will update with some photos in the near future... things are looking pretty good.
Devish
Member
1/8
The Slime.... is back. Noticed the 'wilt' look, roots look fine however. Res change and scrub last night, sterilized with h2o2.
The slime battle has been ongoing for two weeks now. Plants are stalled, but surviving. New roots are growing, but the sudden 'wilt look' tells me something is stealing the oxygen in the system - and what is doing that is the brown slime.
I read a bunch more about ridding the slime. Trying a new approach. I picked up an internal biofilter (Tetra Whisper) used for aquariums. I put subculture M and B inside the filter bag and set it up inside my res, this will breed beneficial microbes and hopefully, clean my res. I also removed my 150 micron inline filter - which might filter out the beneficial bacteria... tired of cleaning it anyway, will see how this goes. Bio-filtering my algae-contaminated water through beneficial microbes? What could work better? I will update as progress continues.
Also, read a lot about the bacteria / nitrogen cycle. Tricky to get going, but it outlines a lot of how intricate the living organisms are... everything coming into balance to mutually benefit each other. Very interesting. I never knew.
The Slime.... is back. Noticed the 'wilt' look, roots look fine however. Res change and scrub last night, sterilized with h2o2.
The slime battle has been ongoing for two weeks now. Plants are stalled, but surviving. New roots are growing, but the sudden 'wilt look' tells me something is stealing the oxygen in the system - and what is doing that is the brown slime.
I read a bunch more about ridding the slime. Trying a new approach. I picked up an internal biofilter (Tetra Whisper) used for aquariums. I put subculture M and B inside the filter bag and set it up inside my res, this will breed beneficial microbes and hopefully, clean my res. I also removed my 150 micron inline filter - which might filter out the beneficial bacteria... tired of cleaning it anyway, will see how this goes. Bio-filtering my algae-contaminated water through beneficial microbes? What could work better? I will update as progress continues.
Also, read a lot about the bacteria / nitrogen cycle. Tricky to get going, but it outlines a lot of how intricate the living organisms are... everything coming into balance to mutually benefit each other. Very interesting. I never knew.
Devish
Member
Weekend slime battle update. Plants hanging on by a thread... slime continues to give me headaches.
I tired to bypass starting the beneficials in a separate bucket and adding directly to the res with the biofilter.
I can say the biofilter helped encourage growth - of the wrong organism. Less than 24hrs after adding, the bad bacteria / algea / WTF had eaten most of the root system of my plants.
So... don't do it this way. If you have a infestation, don't add a bio filter to the res. I guess you'd have to pre-start the beneficials in a separate bucket and transfer.
As an aside note, I bought some EPA certified (fairly accurate) chlorine test strips to test Free Chlorine so I could disinfect my reservoir. Drained, refilled with fresh water - added chlorine to get .5ppm and tried to hold for an hour. I added, at times, 90ml of chlorine to get FC up to 1ppm. FC dropped like a stone after being added. I probably added over a cup of bleach over the course of yesterday to achieve any workable FC level. An interesting experiment, illustrates how tough the brown slime can be. Drained and added fresh water again.
Have a brew of beneficial microbes going that will go on the RES tomorrow night (giving it a full 48 hours). Will see how it goes.
I tired to bypass starting the beneficials in a separate bucket and adding directly to the res with the biofilter.
I can say the biofilter helped encourage growth - of the wrong organism. Less than 24hrs after adding, the bad bacteria / algea / WTF had eaten most of the root system of my plants.
So... don't do it this way. If you have a infestation, don't add a bio filter to the res. I guess you'd have to pre-start the beneficials in a separate bucket and transfer.
As an aside note, I bought some EPA certified (fairly accurate) chlorine test strips to test Free Chlorine so I could disinfect my reservoir. Drained, refilled with fresh water - added chlorine to get .5ppm and tried to hold for an hour. I added, at times, 90ml of chlorine to get FC up to 1ppm. FC dropped like a stone after being added. I probably added over a cup of bleach over the course of yesterday to achieve any workable FC level. An interesting experiment, illustrates how tough the brown slime can be. Drained and added fresh water again.
Have a brew of beneficial microbes going that will go on the RES tomorrow night (giving it a full 48 hours). Will see how it goes.
Devish
Member
Here is a photo of my new microbe bucket with biofilter. Mostly, I think it just provides oxygen for the water and microbes in the bucket, but I might move the bio filter to the res once a colony gets established.
My brew has been going slightly under 24hrs. Hopefully, it is ready for killing. Res was dirty again, completely cleaned it and do NOT want to clean it again. Rafts of bacteria.
Anyway, for a lack-luster view of the plants at the inoculation point:
Starbud
Sour Amnesia
My brew has been going slightly under 24hrs. Hopefully, it is ready for killing. Res was dirty again, completely cleaned it and do NOT want to clean it again. Rafts of bacteria.
Anyway, for a lack-luster view of the plants at the inoculation point:
Starbud
Sour Amnesia
Devish
Member
24hrs after adding beneficial bacteria.
RES water is totally clear. There are new roots on all plants and the down-trend of leaf looks to be reversing. Leaf looks like it needs nitrogen, which I will increase strength of nutes, I was purposefully running a bit low PPMs.
Photo of clear RES. Beneficial Bs really work, despite what my local HYDRO shop advised me (always run a sterile RES?). Glad I did not continue to take their advice.
RES water is totally clear. There are new roots on all plants and the down-trend of leaf looks to be reversing. Leaf looks like it needs nitrogen, which I will increase strength of nutes, I was purposefully running a bit low PPMs.
Photo of clear RES. Beneficial Bs really work, despite what my local HYDRO shop advised me (always run a sterile RES?). Glad I did not continue to take their advice.
Devish
Member
well - disaster. Two actually.
I have been chasing a nutrient deficiency. I purchased a new PH meter, since I did not trust my old one. Sure enough, new meter (expensive one) tells me PH is high. Turns out, new expensive meter lost it's calibration in a week! Nutrient deficiency explained! And yes, I did calibrate it before using initially. Given the cost, I would have expected it to be more accurate than my cheapo $15 PH meter that has NEVER been calibrated. Wrong. Plants don't like operating at 4.5 PH.
3rd day after introducing beneficials (and continuing to re-introduce them in smaller amounts nightly) - the slime was back. Air-stones were covered in clear slime. I drained everything and am in intensive-care mode. The surgery involved cutting back roots to base of net-pot. The roots were all gone. Have to go another layer deep. Removed rockwool cube from netpot and discovered the rot went into the center of the roots in the netpot! Fook. No wonder it always came back.
Cut off ALL rot - so it's just a rockwool cube (small one) with trimed white roots sticking out. All new hydroton, and put into a rooter-type device I have. Basically, treating the current growth as cuttings. The nuclear option. Either the four will survive, or not. Ready to pull the trigger on a reboot.
The hydro-store also told me it might be best to just "start new". If I'd know how hard Pythium would be to kill, I would have.
So, this grow has been a complete disaster. If they don't make it through the weekend with stunning, new roots - they all go in the dumpster and a reboot will occur. Chalk it up to many lessons learned and move on.
I have been chasing a nutrient deficiency. I purchased a new PH meter, since I did not trust my old one. Sure enough, new meter (expensive one) tells me PH is high. Turns out, new expensive meter lost it's calibration in a week! Nutrient deficiency explained! And yes, I did calibrate it before using initially. Given the cost, I would have expected it to be more accurate than my cheapo $15 PH meter that has NEVER been calibrated. Wrong. Plants don't like operating at 4.5 PH.
3rd day after introducing beneficials (and continuing to re-introduce them in smaller amounts nightly) - the slime was back. Air-stones were covered in clear slime. I drained everything and am in intensive-care mode. The surgery involved cutting back roots to base of net-pot. The roots were all gone. Have to go another layer deep. Removed rockwool cube from netpot and discovered the rot went into the center of the roots in the netpot! Fook. No wonder it always came back.
Cut off ALL rot - so it's just a rockwool cube (small one) with trimed white roots sticking out. All new hydroton, and put into a rooter-type device I have. Basically, treating the current growth as cuttings. The nuclear option. Either the four will survive, or not. Ready to pull the trigger on a reboot.
The hydro-store also told me it might be best to just "start new". If I'd know how hard Pythium would be to kill, I would have.
So, this grow has been a complete disaster. If they don't make it through the weekend with stunning, new roots - they all go in the dumpster and a reboot will occur. Chalk it up to many lessons learned and move on.
Devish
Member
This grow was flushed on Saturday night. Root rot was impossible to eradicate. System has been rebooted - new grow cubes started.
Lessons learned:
-root rot is sometimes unrecoverable.
-cleaning a RDWC system sucks, unless it is completely disassambled, there is no way to fully kill and remove all harmful algae.
-PH meters are not to be trusted blindly - just because the meter says 5.8 - does not mean it's RIGHT!
This grow log is closed, another will be started.
New grow log here:
https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog32496-400w-4-site-rdwc-starbud.html
Lessons learned:
-root rot is sometimes unrecoverable.
-cleaning a RDWC system sucks, unless it is completely disassambled, there is no way to fully kill and remove all harmful algae.
-PH meters are not to be trusted blindly - just because the meter says 5.8 - does not mean it's RIGHT!
This grow log is closed, another will be started.
New grow log here:
https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog32496-400w-4-site-rdwc-starbud.html