5 x 5 light set up

I would just reduce the root tonic and and cannazym stuff for now and lower the EC a bit. I assume you've used the stuff already in the past so they don't miss it. When the plant has recovered you can restart using more.
From all this additional stuff I'm using only half of the recommended dose if any. To be honest, most of special cannabis additives are either useless or you can get it much cheaper elsewhere.
A 1liter bottle humidic acids for example cost probably 20$ in your local growshop and with luck 10% of it is deluted leonardite. 1kg pure leonardite -which is 85% humidic acids btw.- costs only 12,50 and is enough to make 10 of the bottles.
Tarantula(forget the brand, maybe GHE) for instance is just leonardite + a few bactrias + a bit green(kelp) lime and the stuff is expensive like hell.
I would go with ~600-700ppm A+B (1,2-1,4mS) for a while. That should be enough for her to recover and it would help with the too high VPD too cuz the plant can evaporate more water without taking up excess nutes. Canna coco is an almost complete formula and already has enough Mg and all that normally. Only make sure all the salt build up is removed and the new growth should look healthy within a few days.

Prawn Connery said:

View attachment 4278493

Don't get me wrong - certainly there is a case for maintaining plants within their optimum humidity range - but I'm just not of the opinion it is the primary cause of nutrient lockout in FC's case.

Currently it is 32C (90F) outside and the RH is 26%. Look that up on your VPD chart. This plant has been growing in an Aussie summer with warm temps and low humidity without any signs of nutrient stress at all (burnt tips on some of the leaves are from the metal barbecue!).

For many years we've been growing indoors and out in Australia under similar conditions. Typical weather patterns see temps in the mid to high 30s (90-100F or more) and relative humidity usually peaks at dawn at around 70% or thereabouts, before falling during the day into the 20s and sometimes teens.

Australia is a hot, dry continent.

Yet plants grow fine. Even sativas, like the one above, which generally grow better in more humid conditions than indicas.

Grow rooms will tend to be more humid, as the heat coupled with all that moisture in the pots (especially coco, which should be moist pretty much all the time) raises humidity. But outdoors it's a different story.

The plant above has been in full sun and is only being fed nutrient every three days, with fresh water on other days. This is a different regime to my indoor plants, because the sun is a lot more intense than the LEDs and rapid evaporation (especially for such a small pot) is obviously an issue.

Again, the point is nutrient management. Plants can be grown in all kinds of conditions as long as you manage your nutrient levels for each condition.

Horses for courses.

I'm not saying VPD is without merit. I am saying that you can still manage your plants even if VPD and other conditions are not optimal.

Click to expand...

Of course they can... no one said they couldn’t, you’re taking that horse down a long unnecessary course....

I think you proved @Randomblame point describing your pool plant...i.e. reduced nutes with vpd stress...

Prawn Connery said:

Here you go: https://www.sensigarden.com/symptoms-problems/

I like this site, because it is one of the few that details both deficiency and excess.

FC's problem is pretty common in coco, and interestingly shows up much more in veg than flower.

Have a look at the video on this page - it's pretty cool - and note what is mentioned about potassium at about time 3.50: http://www.cannagardening.com/coco_a_b

Click to expand...

Thanks man!

Randomblame said:

Like the humidity of the air influences the VPD so does the level of water in the soil affects the suction tension at the roots. Soil has shown that the best value for watering is between 50 and 80mbar. You water until you can read about 120-150mbar that stop and wait untill its down to ~80.
With Coco it is already different cuz there you feed several times a day and the optimal value is 100-120mbar all the time.

Plant symtomes can look very similar and often it depends on the situation. Without the VPD issues I would fully agree with PC and say potassium/salt build up but here it seems to me it's a combination of 3 different things.(VPD, overwatering and excess PK from salt build up).
When one things leaves the optimal range other things usually follow if you do not fix it.
So, yes it's possible to identify whats going wrong just by looking at the symptomes but you need to have the whole picture in mind. The link about nutrient isseus brother PC posted above is one of the best I've ever seen cuz it explains both deficits and excess and they use the whole plant to explain it not only a single leaf like usually.
I've already stored the link to have a closer look at it when I find the time. Best would be you download every single picture to have something like a plant symtomes encyclopedia.
But it explains only the symtomes but you need to have the whole picture in mind. VPD, temps, nutes, water, CO2 and of course the light.. all this has to be in a good range.
The problem with LED is it has no infra red radiation like the sun or hps. A plant outside in australia or elsewhere recieves a lot infra red when ambient temps are 32°C and the plant reduce transpiration to protect herself especially in such a small container. Leave stomata are mostly closed and the leaves are hanging for this reason.
With LED there is no infra red. The self regulation did not work properly for this reason. With hps I never had problems with the VPD, not even one time in 20 fu.... years!
I did not even know it was important, lol!

Click to expand...

Excellent point on the stomatal pump shutdown...

Thanks @Randomgangster, my water EC is 700 so roughly + 6-700 then. Is VPD relevant 24 hours a day or just lights on, see I can still find some dumb questions to ask!

I think you guys are correct, I think it is a combination of things not just 1 isolated issue. Its ironic, I have read a few times that LED is a new learning curve - I remember thinking to myself jeez how much different to the trusty ole 600 can it be 》a bloody lot is my new answer, sigh.... where would I be without my RIU bruthas?

Well Mr Or_gro I did learn a couple of things at Uni in the 80s and one of them was a large fan running slowly will always be quieter than a smaller unit running faster. My wind tunnel is almost silent on the lowest speed and it is a nice gentle breeze to boot.

FC

Ps I cant wait for my nutrient topic when I start to run out of my current stock, should be interesting

Frank Cannon said:

Thanks @Randomgangster, my water EC is 700 so roughly + 6-700 then. Is VPD relevant 24 hours a day or just lights on, see I can still find some dumb questions to ask!

I think you guys are correct, I think it is a combination of things not just 1 isolated issue. Its ironic, I have read a few times that LED is a new learning curve - I remember thinking to myself jeez how much different to the trusty ole 600 can it be 》a bloody lot is my new answer, sigh.... where would I be without my RIU bruthas?

Well Mr Or_gro I did learn a couple of things at Uni in the 80s and one of them was a large fan running slowly will always be quieter than a smaller unit running faster. My wind tunnel is almost silent on the lowest speed and it is a nice gentle breeze to boot.

FC

Ps I cant wait for my nutrient topic when I start to run out of my current stock, should be interesting

Click to expand...

Just yankin yer chain...beautiful grow cab, you’ll have your driver’s license soon with plants that beautiful...

But back to wind tunnels...look familiar?

Rocket Soul said:

I certainly agree with you on one point: one seems to be able to get away with a lot in an outdoors grow that would wreck an indoor grow. Could it be that the further we get from "natural" conditions (sun, soil with proper microlife, seasonal change and slightly randomly fluctuating weather) the more we have to micromanage our plants?

Click to expand...

Well yes, but I've always subscribed to the theory that indoor growing is about trying to replicate nature as much as you can.

Obviously we need to control our indoor environment, and that provides us with some advantages and some disadvantages.

The light source is the obvious disadvantage - it's almost impossible to replicate the sun indoors.

Maintaining a symbiotic relationship indoors is also hard, as it is almost impossible to introduce and maintain all the natural predators that would normally keep most parasites under control, such as spider mites, fungus gnats, white fly, thrips, aphids etc. Using pesticides is counter-intuitive as they kill everything and can leave harmful residue on consumables. There are natural alternatives, thankfully, such as Eco Oil (neem, tea tree and other natural plant oils etc) that are very effective at killing and deterring pests and have no withholding period. Even pyrethrum is fairly benign - though perhaps this warrants a thread of its own!

The only other alternative is to micromanage your indoor grow to ensure NO pests can enter or establish themselves in your grow. Which is not always easy.

At the microscopic level, we can still maintain a healthy root system by using beneficial bacteria and fungi and ensuring pathogens such as pythium (root rot) and other anaerobic bacteria do not take hold.

The advantages are we can control humidity and air flow and even temperature. We can control water and nutrient regimes. We can control photoperiod. We can't replicate the sun, but we can at least tailor our spectrum to different growth cycles and strains.

So there are a lot of things we can control that actually give us an advantage over outdoors - which is why most good growers can grow better indoors than out.

That's the opposite of what you might think, but it's actually the reality for a lot of growers - they are more successful indoors than out precisely because they can control a lot of variables.

This is not at odds with my aim of trying to replicate nature indoors: I have wind blowing all the time (just like in nature), but I can control how much and where it is directed; I feed (for the most part) organic nutrients and am in the process or introducing beneficial fungi and bacteria to my coco, but I can still control my nutrient regime and can supplement mineral salts if required; I can tolerate pests (up to a point) knowing that a good, healthy plant is the best defence against pathogens (using the plant's natural immune system); I can control the light and photoperiod to ensure maximum growth and, if I was as inclined as @Randomblame , I could even introduce UV to stimulate cannabinoid and terpene production.

So in fact, even though it appears we are moving away from Nature by growing indoors, we are actually moving more towards it - with better control - to achieve better yields.

The last piece of the puzzle, of course, is that indoor cannabis varieties have been bred over successive generations precisely to fit their indoor environments. They are actually genetically predisposed to growing well indoors, as that is what they have been selectively bred for over decades. Some strains can't even be taken outside, as they are susceptible to mold, pathogens, periods of drought and even strong sunlight. It's a bit like the difference between a show dog and a working dog - they both excel in their own environments, but not necessarily in each other's.

Randomblame said:

I would just reduce the root tonic and and cannazym stuff for now and lower the EC a bit. I assume you've used the stuff already in the past so they don't miss it. When the plant has recovered you can restart using more.
From all this additional stuff I'm using only half of the recommended dose if any. To be honest, most of special cannabis additives are either useless or you can get it much cheaper elsewhere.
A 1liter bottle humidic acids for example cost probably 20$ in your local growshop and with luck 10% of it is deluted leonardite. 1kg pure leonardite -which is 85% humidic acids btw.- costs only 12,50 and is enough to make 10 of the bottles.
Tarantula(forget the brand, maybe GHE) for instance is just leonardite + a few bactrias + a bit green(kelp) lime and the stuff is expensive like hell.
I would go with ~600-700ppm A+B (1,2-1,4mS) for a while. That should be enough for her to recover and it would help with the too high VPD too cuz the plant can evaporate more water without taking up excess nutes. Canna coco is an almost complete formula and already has enough Mg and all that normally. Only make sure all the salt build up is removed and the new growth should look healthy within a few days.

Click to expand...

I'm late to the party, but ^ this. Random is correct that Canna nutrients are already very well tailored to growing in coco. Where I think you went wrong is maintaining a high level of nutrient during the transplant process. It obviously wasn't too high, as the other plants thrived, so perhaps just mix up your normal batch for all the other plants and then dilute it a little for the sick plant.

I'd probably still maintain close to what Canna recommends for their A+B (2ml/litre), halve the Rhizo and Cannazym doses, and run the CalMag at 0.5ml per litre instead of 1ml.

Mostly, though, I'd flush with warm water to get rid of all the excess salts, as that is your main problem. Once your coco is in good shape, you should be able to feed more.

Or_Gro said:

Of course they can... no one said they couldn’t, you’re taking that horse down a long unnecessary course....

I think you proved @Randomblame point describing your pool plant...i.e. reduced nutes with vpd stress...

Click to expand...

No, I'm simply not putting the horse before the cart

I am not arguing with what @Randomblame is saying. I am suggesting that the PRIMARY issue with FC's grow is not VPD, but nutrient management. Maintaining the correct VPD gives you a bigger buffer. But it won't save you from overdosing your plants.

Here are photos of my plants taken yesterday and the day before when - coincidentally - the temperature and humidity were exactly the same as FC's - 31C and 50%RH.



The leaf twisting is genetic (this is half blueberry).

Randomblame said:

Like the humidity of the air influences the VPD so does the level of water in the soil affects the suction tension at the roots. Soil has shown that the best value for watering is between 50 and 80mbar. You water until you can read about 120-150mbar that stop and wait untill its down to ~80.
With Coco it is already different cuz there you feed several times a day and the optimal value is 100-120mbar all the time.

Plant symtomes can look very similar and often it depends on the situation. Without the VPD issues I would fully agree with PC and say potassium/salt build up but here it seems to me it's a combination of 3 different things.(VPD, overwatering and excess PK from salt build up).
When one things leaves the optimal range other things usually follow if you do not fix it.
So, yes it's possible to identify whats going wrong just by looking at the symptomes but you need to have the whole picture in mind. The link about nutrient isseus brother PC posted above is one of the best I've ever seen cuz it explains both deficits and excess and they use the whole plant to explain it not only a single leaf like usually.
I've already stored the link to have a closer look at it when I find the time. Best would be you download every single picture to have something like a plant symtomes encyclopedia.
But it explains only the symtomes but you need to have the whole picture in mind. VPD, temps, nutes, water, CO2 and of course the light.. all this has to be in a good range.
The problem with LED is it has no infra red radiation like the sun or hps. A plant outside in australia or elsewhere recieves a lot infra red when ambient temps are 32°C and the plant reduce transpiration to protect herself especially in such a small container. Leave stomata are mostly closed and the leaves are hanging for this reason.
With LED there is no infra red. The self regulation did not work properly for this reason. With hps I never had problems with the VPD, not even one time in 20 fu.... years!
I did not even know it was important, lol!

Click to expand...

I'm really turbo-posting today!

Absolutely I agree with everything - and in fact you are schooling me on the dynamics of growing indoors under LEDs vs HIDs. (Or perhaps that should be "old-schooling" me, as I admit I have been doing this a long time and am also a bit set in my ways - but I'm not too proud to learn!)

But like any good mechanic, you always look for the most obvious fix first, then proceed to fine tune. You cannot fine-tune a car that is running on the wrong grade of fuel or has a broken spark plug to begin with.

Late to the party but the Prawnstar always arrives!

I actually put you guys wrong a bit I am actually using Canna Aqua Veg as it is what I was using in Perlite, plus cal mag, silica, rhizo and cannazym. I have mixed up a normal strength soln and diluted it 50% as I don't want the others getting caught out later down the track. I have just now flushed the lille bitch with 5l of warm Phd water and a 20% strength nutes. Here she is in normal sunlight.


2 things I don't get:

1) VPD is relevant 24hours a day or more lights on?

2) The Canna schedule always states EC plus, since my normal water is already 0.7 and Cannas veg regime says 1.6-1.8 (plus 1) is my hard water contributing to this with VPD i.e. should I stick closer to a total EC that includes my 0.7 and say half their nutes whilst temps are high? This would be close to what you are saying Prawn - EC of about 1.2 total.

I never worried about my EC being high in the past as alot of it would be the additives which I thought wouldn't have mattered....guess I was WRONG again

Prawn Connery said:

I'm really turbo-posting today!

Absolutely I agree with everything - and in fact you are schooling me on the dynamics of growing indoors under LEDs vs HIDs. (Or perhaps that should be "old-schooling" me, as I admit I have been doing this a long time and am also a bit set in my ways - but I'm not too proud to learn!)

But like any good mechanic, you always look for the most obvious fix first, then proceed to fine tune. You cannot fine-tune a car that is running on the wrong grade of fuel or has a broken spark plug to begin with.

Click to expand...

Hehe, old-schooling ..
I fully agree with the car tuning example! At first I only looked at it from the VPD aspect and did not think of a possible nutrient imbalance because of a salt build up.

The change to LED is more complicated than I initially thought. I first thought I would just use a more efficient light source but did not suspect that there is soooo much to consider. HPS, MH or CMH are all based on a glowing element and a plasma, so they work pretty much like the sun. They produce light and a lot of heat radiation and the ratio is coincidentally about that of the sun. For this reason we never had so much issues maintaining a good VPD.
We just took that as normal for years and cursed the heat unaware that without it it comes to almost 5°C less leaf temps. Plants that getting up to 1000μmol/s simply expect a certain amount of heat radiation.

BTW, I've started my first Coco DTW adventure. But at first at a small scale, lol! Only three 16oz party cups for the party cup competition(12/12h from the beginning). Hand watered because a pump is not allowed.
It's just for fun and I have simply used my mineral bloom fertilizer, a bit calmag and kelp extract for now. But plants seems to like it, PH is almost stable(5,8 goes in and 6,0-6,1 runs off) and I've increased to 600ppm yesterday.
Plants are 3 weeks old today and have 5 and 6 true nodes. I've used two 5000°k strips as additional sidelights just to make sure there's a lot of blue light hitting the stems. This way I can force the plants to produce extremely short nodial spacings and concentrate more in developing twigs. They are 3-4" high currently and one of them seems to be kissed by the holy trinity. Looks funny and I'll keep that plant at least for a while. If she can keep up with the others..
Currently the VPD is pretty high but till now the plant have no issues because of the relatively low EC. I'll start feeding 3 times the day next week cuz they should have more than enough roots already.
Later I have to post my weekly update in the party cup thread but if it's okay I'll upload one or two shots here too. Maybe I can do something better ..

Frank Cannon said:

I actually put you guys wrong a bit I am actually using Canna Aqua Veg as it is what I was using in Perlite, plus cal mag, silica, rhizo and cannazym.

Click to expand...

Well that changes everything . . . and nothing!

Canna Coco Base NPK = 2.5 - 2 - 1.5
Canna Aqua Veg NPK = 3 - 1.5 - 4

What do you notice about the K ratio in the above?

That's right, Canna Coco has a lot less potassium because coco coir contains a lot more than inert hydro media such as perlite.

So you have K excess which is locking out your calcium, magnesium, iron and other metals.

I am in absolutely no doubt now. Change your nutrients to a proper coco formula, and I suggest most of your nutrient issues will go away.

Randomblame said:

Hehe, old-schooling ..
I fully agree with the car tuning example! At first I only looked at it from the VPD aspect and did not think of a possible nutrient imbalance because of a salt build up.

The change to LED is more complicated than I initially thought. I first thought I would just use a more efficient light source but did not suspect that there is soooo much to consider. HPS, MH or CMH are all based on a glowing element and a plasma, so they work pretty much like the sun. They produce light and a lot of heat radiation and the ratio is coincidentally about that of the sun. For this reason we never had so much issues maintaining a good VPD.
We just took that as normal for years and cursed the heat unaware that without it it comes to almost 5°C less leaf temps. Plants that getting up to 1000μmol/s simply expect a certain amount of heat radiation.

BTW, I've started my first Coco DTW adventure. But at first at a small scale, lol! Only three 16oz party cups for the party cup competition(12/12h from the beginning). Hand watered because a pump is not allowed.
It's just for fun and I have simply used my mineral bloom fertilizer, a bit calmag and kelp extract for now. But plants seems to like it, PH is almost stable(5,8 goes in and 6,0-6,1 runs off) and I've increased to 600ppm yesterday.
Plants are 3 weeks old today and have 5 and 6 true nodes. I've used two 5000°k strips as additional sidelights just to make sure there's a lot of blue light hitting the stems. This way I can force the plants to produce extremely short nodial spacings and concentrate more in developing twigs. They are 3-4" high currently and one of them seems to be kissed by the holy trinity. Looks funny and I'll keep that plant at least for a while. If she can keep up with the others..
Currently the VPD is pretty high but till now the plant have no issues because of the relatively low EC. I'll start feeding 3 times the day next week cuz they should have more than enough roots already.
Later I have to post my weekly update in the party cup thread but if it's okay I'll upload one or two shots here too. Maybe I can do something better ..

Click to expand...

I generally know how to read plants, and I've never used TDS or EC meters for that reason - I just give the plant what it wants and tend to ignore the numbers. But I must admit this has all been fascinating reading and explains a lot of why my old coco nutrient regime has not worked the same under LED as it did under HPS/MH all those years.

Thanks mate!

Damn, you the man, I will buy some tomorrow!

Prawn Connery said:

No, I'm simply not putting the horse before the cart

I am not arguing with what @Randomblame is saying. I am suggesting that the PRIMARY issue with FC's grow is not VPD, but nutrient management. Maintaining the correct VPD gives you a bigger buffer. But it won't save you from overdosing your plants.

Here are photos of my plants taken yesterday and the day before when - coincidentally - the temperature and humidity were exactly the same as FC's - 31C and 50%RH.

View attachment 4279011
View attachment 4279012
The leaf twisting is genetic (this is half blueberry).

Click to expand...

And giving correct nutes /ec wont save plants from pm or dehydration....

Nature is multivariate, you change one variable it cascades to others...a problem may be triggered by a certain specific variable, but by the time you recognize the problem, others have already started...

When things start cascading, you need to do triage among multiple potential solutions...addressing the root cause first may not be possible or practicle or timely...understanding alternatives that buy correction time, buffer, or are just simply more doable CAN be even more important than fixing the initial trigger, at least in the short run...

That was an important part of rb’s point, and you were, imo, resisting it earlier...

I respect your knowledge and willingness to help, i admire your intellectual honesty and your willingness to change, and i look forward to learning more from you.

Cheers

Prawn Connery said:

I generally know how to read plants, and I've never used TDS or EC meters for that reason - I just give the plant what it wants and tend to ignore the numbers. But I must admit this has all been fascinating reading and explains a lot of why my old coco nutrient regime has not worked the same under LED as it did under HPS/MH all those years.

Thanks mate!

Click to expand...

Yeah, when you know your fertilizer there is no need to check EC and PH again and again. it's going over into flesh and blood, says a proverb here.
Many hydro fertilizer reduce the PH anyway to 5,6-5,8 without PH down and often there are also PH stabilizers added and 1ml/l of the same fertilizer always leads to the same EC when you use the same tap water.
I've often skipped that part too... but for laziness, lol!
But it's my first coco adventure and the ambient conditions are not perfect because of the dry and cold weather. I've already a bowl of water in front of the fan but RH is still below 45%. When I have the Canna or GHE coco nutes and they work for me I will stay with them. It don't takes a long time until I have the new numbers stored. I can get the GHE Maxigrow and Maxibloom 1kg bags much cheaper(10€ per bag) so maybe I will also try powdered nutes.
So at least at the beginning I will have to measure PH and EC!

Randomblame said:

Yeah, when you know your fertilizer there is no need to check EC and PH again and again. it's going over into flesh and blood, says a proverb here.
Many hydro fertilizer reduce the PH anyway to 5,6-5,8 without PH down and often there are also PH stabilizers added and 1ml/l of the same fertilizer always leads to the same EC when you use the same tap water.
I've often skipped that part too... but for laziness, lol!
But it's my first coco adventure and the ambient conditions are not perfect because of the dry and cold weather. I've already a bowl of water in front of the fan but RH is still below 45%. When I have the Canna or GHE coco nutes and they work for me I will stay with them. It don't takes a long time until I have the new numbers stored. I can get the GHE Maxigrow and Maxibloom 1kg bags much cheaper(10€ per bag) so maybe I will also try powdered nutes.
So at least at the beginning I will have to measure PH and EC!

Click to expand...

If you hang some fabric in dipping into your bowl it will wick up water and as it dries it will give some humidity and keep on wicking up the rest of the water.

Also, and i know this goes without saying around the reasonable caucus here in the led section: its great to have and read a discussion that is so open and civilized. The usual MO around here is flame war and insults at the first difference of opinion. This way we can all learn from eachother.

Or_Gro said:

And giving correct nutes /ec wont save plants from pm or dehydration....

Click to expand...

Well no, but that wasn't the issue here.

Or_Gro said:

Nature is multivariate, you change one variable it cascades to others...a problem may be triggered by a certain specific variable, but by the time you recognize the problem, others have already started...

Click to expand...

Agreed. Growing is a holistic venture.

Or_Gro said:

When things start cascading, you need to do triage among multiple potential solutions...addressing the root cause first may not be possible or practicle or timely...understanding alternatives that buy correction time, buffer, or are just simply more doable CAN be even more important than fixing the initial trigger, at least in the short run...

Click to expand...

Certainly. If we are speaking hypothetically.

But if you have been growing in coco for many years and spot a common problem that you know - from experience - can be treated in a straight-forward manner, wouldn't you tackle it as such?

Or_Gro said:

That was an important part of rb’s point, and you were, imo, resisting it earlier...

Click to expand...

From where I sit, I saw it the other way around!

To me, the problem seemed obvious. To others, perhaps not.

In no way was I discrediting what Randomblame was saying. But at the same time, I felt that while one conversation was going on about VPD, the obvious issue of nutrient management was not being addressed.

So that's the approach I took.

@Randomblame can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm sure that's the way he saw me approach the issue, too. There was absolutely no conflict with what was being discussed. Just a general difference in views on what should be addressed first.

Or_Gro said:

I respect your knowledge and willingness to help, i admire your intellectual honesty and your willingness to change, and i look forward to learning more from you.

Cheers

Click to expand...

I appreciate the comment. The LED community has given me a lot - and continues to. So if I can return the favour by sharing a bit of general grow knowledge and experience, then I hope that makes up for my relative inexperience in other areas (specifically growing under LEDs).

Of course, by now you've realised I don't mind a bit of robust debate - as clearly you do, too - so we can all still have a virtual beer and laugh about things once everything has been resolved. Or even if it hasn't.

It's how we evolve.

BTW, dissected quote arguments are the worst, aren't they? I saved that one for you, my baseball tragic friend. You know I don't waste my time arguing with any old bludger!

Rocket Soul said:

If you hang some fabric in dipping into your bowl it will wick up water and as it dries it will give some humidity and keep on wicking up the rest of the water.

Also, and i know this goes without saying around the reasonable caucus here in the led section: its great to have and read a discussion that is so open and civilized. The usual MO around here is flame war and insults at the first difference of opinion. This way we can all learn from eachother.

Click to expand...

< Mate, there is a story behind this avatar.

"Prawn Connery" was born in the Overgrow Shark Tank in 2002 as a character I created to troll the trolls while my plants were growing. It was just one of an army of "Prawns" I used to log in to to have fun and games with other growers back then.

The "Prawn Swarm" consisted of - in no particular order:


King Prawn


Judge Prawn


Messiah Prawn


Psycho Prawn


James T Perch