A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

gr3ysmok3 said:

I really do appreciate your help on this, I've alredy done so much research and so much is contradictory from forum to forum, it's so much easier to have a genius who knows what he's talking about to make it one step easier.

So there is a 15 amp outlet near my closet, but I'm even more worried now after reading that guy's post about the 600w that nearly burnt his house down. Especially since I'll be pulling 1000w 24 hours then 12/12 over about 8 weeks!

I read about a 1000w super gaming system with 4 quad sli graphics cards, a rediculous cooling system/power supply setup, etc. on a 15amp outlet; so I figure my 15 amp outlet can handle a heavy 1000w power pull for a long time since that comp was on 24/7 and I've read a bunch of other forums with people using 1000w on 15 amps because that's about the maximum it can pull. But is there some sort of fault swith I can setup to prevent a fire because obviously the last thing I want to do is burn this place down :X

Also is there a way to check the outlet to see if the wiring is new? I just want to have everything setup as safely as possible before I go with it.

And when you say I need a #12 awg what is that? I've got a Lumatek 120/240v 1000w ballast so I don't think I need any new wiring besides my 1000w mh light and the output chord coming out of the ballast.

P.S. I noticed on an earlier question you mentioned that you can have an electrician upgrade the electrical circuitry to your house. I may be buying a house in a few months and I'll definitely have a grow room there. How would I contact an electrical company and request an upgrade, is it as simple as picking up the phone and asking for it and paying the upgrade fee? And if so should I request specifics, such as having all the outlets be 20 amp or things like that?

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ok you asked a complicated set of questions that need several complicated answers to be able to give you sound advice, ill do my best to K.I.S.S.
well upgrading the wiring involves alot more than just paying the electrician. be prepared to be repairing LOTS of holes in the walls... the problem with the situation is what determines the available amperage at the outlets is the size of the WIRE and BREAKER, not the size of the plug. if you put a 50amp receptacle on wire that is only rated to hold 15 amps (#14awg, most common in houses) your only going to get 14-15amps of power before the breaker trips.
if you try to get all smart and go to home depot and pick up a 50amp breaker to put on your 15amp wire and 50amp receptacle, you will burn your house down faster than a pyromaniac in a flamethrower factory.
wire that is not big enough to handle to handle the power flowing through will heat up VERY rapidly... the elements on an electric stove, toaster, space heaters all work on this principle.. there a very small wire with alot of power going through it, you see how fast a toaster heats up to glowing red? imagine the wiring inside your house's wooden and paper walls doing just that....
basically the moral of the story is you need a trinity of components, the wire, the breaker, and all the receptacles on the circuit must be rated for the same amount of amps for the circuit to work right.
using a regulated power supply like the one your wanting will slightly reduce the risk of fire, but not much... the reason being is that regulated power supplies are intended to be used on dedicated outlets. if your 15amp plug your wanting to use is not a dedicated outlet, (and odds are its not if its in your house ) then there are other plugs or even lights/switches running on the same circuit, and if thats the case they need to need to be rated for 15 amps of CONTINUOUS DUTY

ah... continuous duty. a term often heard but seldom understood. Tesla showed us that a/c flowing in a circuit generates harmonics in the conductors... in plain english, electrical harmonics are tiny vibrations that are barely measurable even with good instruments. however what happens is these harmonics or tiny vibrations occuring between the atoms of a conductor cause friction, which generates heat, the enemy of all things electric. so to overcome this, your devices (receptacles or switches, and wiring) must be SPEC GRADE... spec grade devices have heavier metal components and are made to overcome harmonics and hystersis (heat) so if your buying a place, and you want your wiring done correctly, you tell the electrical contractor you want SPEC GRADE DEVICES at all locations... ALL of them! why cut a corner when dealing with safety? i put spec grade devices in every single place i have ever lived, whether it was a rental or not, and did it before i even carried in the first box on moving day.

an easy way to tell if your wiring is modern is to look at the back of the plug: if the wires just go into the back of the plug... BAD BAD BAD. if the wires are wrapped around the screws on the side, that is best:

i've been to too many of these sites and seen too many claiming to be electricians that give flat out dangerous advice. big time kudos to iamstoned for some outstanding answers.

thats why i do this. in the business world my services are not cheap nor free. i saw stuff that scared me, and i like to give back for the knowledge i gained here, so this is my way of saying thanks to RIU... if you can get past my typos, multi edits, horrible sentence structure and poor grammar, youll find i always give the best answer to my ability.
so im just keepin it real

IAm5toned said:

sorry man i mustve lost track of your post in the mix...

i would definitly earth the fans. 'earthing' or more correctly called GROUNDING is a conductor (wire) the connects to the frame of your device ( in this case motor) and in turn is connected to the EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR in your electrical system ( grounding bus or bar in electrical panel, or even the ground in the nearest outlet) you could connect it to the grounding wire in the outlet you plan on plugging the fans into, it would be the easiest way...

as far as whether or not they will work depends on the motor size... the bigger the motor, the more likely they will fail.

most a/c motors are made to operate at either 50 hz or 60hz, but not all of them.
best case scenario they will work just fine but they will turn at a lower rpm then if they were running on 60hz.
middle of the road scenario is they will run a little slow and get a little warm to the touch. if this is the case its best to run them at the fastest speed setting they have.
worst case scenario is they will run really slow and begin to overheat quite rapidly... if the motor gets to hot it will melt a built in centrifugal safety switch called the 'solder pot' once this happens, your motor is junk, and cant be used again without being serviced @ the factory.
i wouldnt be scared to try it BUT i would keep an eye on it. if they start to overheat too quickly and it turns into a problem you can get a variable frequency drive to control the Hz, just leave it set at 60hz and it will work as intended... but VFD's are not exactly cheap though. hope this answered your question!

personally, if it was me, i wouldnt do it, but i am picky about such things; but i also wouldnt be scared to try it if all i had were 60hz fans and 50hz power

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thanks again mate. the issue with the fans has been resolved. i emailed the guy i bought them from about it and he told me they were incorrectly labelled because they made two different orders (1 for aus, 1 for US) but the factory put the same labels on all of them so thats why i got them so cheap and he's assured me they are 240v 50hz spec. that said i think ill still double check there operation like you said first.
on the grounding of them, so i just use a standard power supply chord with a three pin plug on one end and splice the fan wires into the other end and run the earth wire to the case screw?

The Cat said:

thanks again mate. the issue with the fans has been resolved. i emailed the guy i bought them from about it and he told me they were incorrectly labelled because they made two different orders (1 for aus, 1 for US) but the factory put the same labels on all of them so thats why i got them so cheap and he's assured me they are 240v 50hz spec. that said i think ill still double check there operation like you said first.
on the grounding of them, so i just use a standard power supply chord with a three pin plug on one end and splice the fan wires into the other end and run the earth wire to the case screw?

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yep... grounding is pretty basic

ok so ive got another question. i havent really looked into this yet so i apologise if there is a simple and readily avaliable product that does this but is there something i can connect a power supply to and then wire my "appliances" into to make them permanent fixtures rather than having to add a new plug to the end of all my cables and use a power board? i was thinking i could use connector strips and bridge them together on one side but i was hoping for something a bit more permanent and safer. any suggestions?

The Cat said:

ok so ive got another question. i havent really looked into this yet so i apologise if there is a simple and readily avaliable product that does this but is there something i can connect a power supply to and then wire my "appliances" into to make them permanent fixtures rather than having to add a new plug to the end of all my cables and use a power board? i was thinking i could use connector strips and bridge them together on one side but i was hoping for something a bit more permanent and safer. any suggestions?

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yep, a terminal strip...
found one cheap here

wire it like this:

they prolly sell pre made bridge clips to so it looks nice and professional
mount the whole thing in a cheap pvc 12"x12" junction box you can get at any hardware store... drill holes in th ebox for the cable entry points, wire it up, and a few zip ties later it will look like store bought

hello iam5toned,i have a little question? i live in a 2 brm apt.is 8000kw a month alot?? my bill is about65 bucks 4 supply and maybe 50 4 delivery.just trying to ease my thoughts,thanks

115$ a month?
not big at all....

IAm5toned said:

they prolly sell pre made bridge clips to so it looks nice and professional
mount the whole thing in a cheap pvc 12"x12" junction box you can get at any hardware store... drill holes in th ebox for the cable entry points, wire it up, and a few zip ties later it will look like store bought

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http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103227

jumpers for terminal strips.

DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!! my bagseed grow with 5 plants turned into 4 males and i female. i've got to get some cloning supplies.

Hey,

I tried searching the thread for my answer before I posted but either I missed it or no one asked. I tried searching the forum too and found one thread but there aren't really any clear/specific answers. I have this HPS: http://cgi.ebay.com/Econo-250-Watt-HPS-Grow-Light_W0QQitemZ110452042686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7746bbe and I just bought this cool tube: http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=48137

Can you tell me how I can wire the cool tube up with the cord that comes with the cool tube or what would be a better option? Thanks a lot!!

Enig said:

Hey,

I tried searching the thread for my answer before I posted but either I missed it or no one asked. I tried searching the forum too and found one thread but there aren't really any clear/specific answers. I have this HPS: http://cgi.ebay.com/Econo-250-Watt-HPS-Grow-Light_W0QQitemZ110452042686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7746bbe and I just bought this cool tube: http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=48137

Can you tell me how I can wire the cool tube up with the cord that comes with the cool tube or what would be a better option? Thanks a lot!!

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both those pics suck... i cant tell what wires are on the tube or the ballast.

the socket on the cooltube will have two wires, a black and a white, typically. so will the balast lamp cord.

cut the connectors off the words and splice the blacks and whites together respectively....

Yeah they do suck sorry about that... Would you want me to get better pics? I read about people that have to buy a seperate connector is this false information? Thanks again +rep

hey iam stoner.....
i saw some other electrician with a thread just like this one
i think it was called "electrician here to answer all questions"....
or something.....lol

if you try to get all smart and go to home depot and pick up a 50amp breaker to put on your 15amp wire and 50amp receptacle, you will burn your house down faster than a pyromaniac in a flamethrower factory.

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Lol, thanks for your advice! Without the internet and friendly neighborhood electricians like yourself I never would have been able to save the world with the help of the green eyed bandit.

Wow, thanks for all youve done here. Hopefully you might be able to help me out a little.

Heres a brief (ok maybe not so breif) description of my setup and what I'm trying to do, or skip to the next paragraph for the question. I recently acquired a Co2 generator but do to heat issues I had place it outside the grow room. So my Co2 gen is actually located outside the building and I have it set up in a metal enclosure with adequate fresh air intake. In the top of the enclosure I have 4" ducting basically the same thing you would see on a hot water heater. After about a 4' run of that I reduce it down to 2" pvc and then have roughly a 24' run through the building into the room. So with this long of a run I'm thinking I have to hook up some kind of inline fan with maybe a spring type backdraft damper to control the intake. My goal is to hook the inline fan to my Co2 monitor to automatically control my Co2 levels.

I have a telaire 8000 series Co2 monitor same thing as the cap-ppm3, ppm1c, etc... That I would like to use to control the fan in the link below. So, the Co2 sensor has two outputs 1 analog and 1 relay. Ideally i think I would have better control over ppm if I was somehow able to use the analog output to slow down and speed up the fan as needed. But using the relay for on/off would be fine also. I really dont understand what I would need in order to do this. I almost think I would need a separate relay to run off the built in relay on the telaire but I just dont get it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Inline fan w/specs
Specifications:
Ducting (inches/mm)
3" (76mm)
Voltage
13.6
CFM @ Open Flow
135
Amp Draw
2.9
Fuze Size (amps)
4

Co2 Monitor specs
Input/Output
Power
18-30 VAC RMS, 50/60 Hz – half-wave rectified
18-42 VDC polarity protected
1.75 VA maximum average power
2.75 VA peak power
Analog Output (Simultaneous)
0-10 VDC (100 Ohms output impedance)
4-20 mA (RLmax = 500 Ohms)
Relay Output
Normally Open and Normally Closed (wire either way), gold bifurcated, 2A
max. @ 24VAC. Adjustable setpoint, factory set at 1000 ppm, 50 ppm
hysteresis
Wiring
18-28 AWG stranded copper wire only. 2 wires each for power, analog output,
relay
Digital I/O
RS-232 interface for use with optional PC software and cable in UIP kit 2072
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

i have a question, i believe i got a 430 watt sun system hps and i was wondering if i put a 400 watt bulb in there would it nor fire? trying to troubleshoot my ballast

LED grow lights run on 110 volts. Would they be able to make LED grow lights using 24 volt LED diodes using a transformer to bump the 110 to 24 volts and save even more power. My brother who is an electrian said he has used 24V LED's at a hospital. Would they put out the right amount of light? Just a thought.

mymeds said:

Wow, thanks for all youve done here. Hopefully you might be able to help me out a little.

Heres a brief (ok maybe not so breif) description of my setup and what I'm trying to do, or skip to the next paragraph for the question. I recently acquired a Co2 generator but do to heat issues I had place it outside the grow room. So my Co2 gen is actually located outside the building and I have it set up in a metal enclosure with adequate fresh air intake. In the top of the enclosure I have 4" ducting basically the same thing you would see on a hot water heater. After about a 4' run of that I reduce it down to 2" pvc and then have roughly a 24' run through the building into the room. So with this long of a run I'm thinking I have to hook up some kind of inline fan with maybe a spring type backdraft damper to control the intake. My goal is to hook the inline fan to my Co2 monitor to automatically control my Co2 levels.

I have a telaire 8000 series Co2 monitor same thing as the cap-ppm3, ppm1c, etc... That I would like to use to control the fan in the link below. So, the Co2 sensor has two outputs 1 analog and 1 relay. Ideally i think I would have better control over ppm if I was somehow able to use the analog output to slow down and speed up the fan as needed. But using the relay for on/off would be fine also. I really dont understand what I would need in order to do this. I almost think I would need a separate relay to run off the built in relay on the telaire but I just dont get it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Inline fan w/specs
Specifications:
Ducting (inches/mm)
3" (76mm)
Voltage
13.6
CFM @ Open Flow
135
Amp Draw
2.9
Fuze Size (amps)
4

Co2 Monitor specs
Input/Output
Power
18-30 VAC RMS, 50/60 Hz – half-wave rectified
18-42 VDC polarity protected
1.75 VA maximum average power
2.75 VA peak power
Analog Output (Simultaneous)
0-10 VDC (100 Ohms output impedance)
4-20 mA (RLmax = 500 Ohms)
Relay Output
Normally Open and Normally Closed (wire either way), gold bifurcated, 2A
max. @ 24VAC. Adjustable setpoint, factory set at 1000 ppm, 50 ppm
hysteresis
Wiring
18-28 AWG stranded copper wire only. 2 wires each for power, analog output,
relay
Digital I/O
RS-232 interface for use with optional PC software and cable in UIP kit 2072
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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i can help you, but need to ask some silly questions-
1- is your co2 generator going to run 24/7?
it should be running during the daylight cycle only, if im not mistaken
2- how much do you want to spend? because to use the analog output (for proportionate speed control) you need a dc motor drive... not exactly cheap to find one that operates on a 0-10vdc input... i found a few on google that use 0-5vdc, but none that use 10vdc
3 another thing you need to consider- you will need to vent out the air you are replacing with co2, or else you will be trying to pressurize the cabinet when your fan kicks on; so you will need another additional gravity damper on a vent
4 you will also need a good, regulated 24vdc power supply, not a cheap cell phone charger/wall adapter modded to work

ideally you would the relay output to activate a relay control circuit firing two normally closed (normal being the off position) relays, one relay to start the generator, and the other to start the fan. now depending on the efficiency of the co2 generator, you may or may not have to use the analog feature to get the desired ppm's. the idea here is to have a generator that can produce adequete levels of co2 so that your fan is not pushing the air/co2 mixture out faster than the ppm's can build to the desired levels.... are you following me? the best way to ensure your co2 levels are getting high enough is to make sure your co2 supply (from generator) is at the bottom of the cab, and the vent/exhaust (from cabinet) is at the top. this way gravity will let the heavier co2 build up in the bottom of the cab, and let the useless air vent out the top. the ppm sensor should be in the middle, heightwise. honestly i think it would be better to forego the anaolog feature, unless your just wanting to get fancy with it. adding the speed control will also give you hours of 'adjusting' and tinkering and calibrating to do as well. for this reason i say it would be better to start out with a simple relay control setup untill you get used to the concepts your dealing with here.

using the analog controller requires you add another componet into the control circuit, a dc motor drive. a motor drive accepts the analog i/o signal and converts it to motor speed, like an automatic dimmer switch you could say. the drive will also need 24v power with sufficient wattage in addition to the analog signal to run the motor.

think about these things and let me know and i will draw a schematic up for you