A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

chrisg420 said:

i have a question, i believe i got a 430 watt sun system hps and i was wondering if i put a 400 watt bulb in there would it nor fire? trying to troubleshoot my ballast

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jjp53 said:

LED grow lights run on 110 volts. Would they be able to make LED grow lights using 24 volt LED diodes using a transformer to bump the 110 to 24 volts and save even more power. My brother who is an electrian said he has used 24V LED's at a hospital. Would they put out the right amount of light? Just a thought.

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chrisg420 said:

im looking at it now and this is what it says, 430 watt max , model hps430, 5.20A, 120V, 60HZ, S51. ballast turns on, just doesnt ignite the bulb. sounds like a ignitor to me?

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chrisg420 said:

i can get one from my dad in a few hours, i just bought a new bulb yesterday. so if i buy the rebuild kit will it be safe to operate and such? im just kinda weary about electrical. and another ? how much of a improvement would i see if i got a lumatek digital ballast?

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piratezepplin said:

Here's a question - where can I find a good price on 4-foot high output T5 tubes? Not exactly a question for an electrician, but maybe you know of some wholesalers or something? I'm mostly finding them through greenhouse suppliers, and I'm pretty sure the prices are a little jacked up given that our little niche tends to draw a spendy crowd. I started a thread here too:
https://www.rollitup.org/showthread.php?t=272179
Thanks dude.

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IAm5toned said:

i can help you, but need to ask some silly questions-
1- is your co2 generator going to run 24/7?
it should be running during the daylight cycle only, if im not mistaken
2- how much do you want to spend? because to use the analog output (for proportionate speed control) you need a dc motor drive... not exactly cheap to find one that operates on a 0-10vdc input... i found a few on google that use 0-5vdc, but none that use 10vdc
3 another thing you need to consider- you will need to vent out the air you are replacing with co2, or else you will be trying to pressurize the cabinet when your fan kicks on; so you will need another additional gravity damper on a vent
4 you will also need a good, regulated 24vdc power supply, not a cheap cell phone charger/wall adapter modded to work

ideally you would the relay output to activate a relay control circuit firing two normally closed (normal being the off position) relays, one relay to start the generator, and the other to start the fan. now depending on the efficiency of the co2 generator, you may or may not have to use the analog feature to get the desired ppm's. the idea here is to have a generator that can produce adequete levels of co2 so that your fan is not pushing the air/co2 mixture out faster than the ppm's can build to the desired levels.... are you following me? the best way to ensure your co2 levels are getting high enough is to make sure your co2 supply (from generator) is at the bottom of the cab, and the vent/exhaust (from cabinet) is at the top. this way gravity will let the heavier co2 build up in the bottom of the cab, and let the useless air vent out the top. the ppm sensor should be in the middle, heightwise. honestly i think it would be better to forego the anaolog feature, unless your just wanting to get fancy with it. adding the speed control will also give you hours of 'adjusting' and tinkering and calibrating to do as well. for this reason i say it would be better to start out with a simple relay control setup untill you get used to the concepts your dealing with here.

using the analog controller requires you add another componet into the control circuit, a dc motor drive. a motor drive accepts the analog i/o signal and converts it to motor speed, like an automatic dimmer switch you could say. the drive will also need 24v power with sufficient wattage in addition to the analog signal to run the motor.

think about these things and let me know and i will draw a schematic up for you

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1- is your co2 generator going to run 24/7?

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2- how much do you want to spend? because to use the analog output (for proportionate speed control) you need a dc motor drive... not exactly cheap to find one that operates on a 0-10vdc input... i found a few on google that use 0-5vdc, but none that use 10vdc

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3 another thing you need to consider- you will need to vent out the air you are replacing with co2, or else you will be trying to pressurize the cabinet when your fan kicks on; so you will need another additional gravity damper on a vent

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4 you will also need a good, regulated 24vdc power supply, not a cheap cell phone charger/wall adapter modded to work.

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Making a PPM-3 (Piggyback Model)
This is the one that is quoted to be the most cost effective of all the PPM models. I disagree only because of design. But if you do not have an Environmental Controller, then this is the one for you. Get a used Telaire or a new 8001 model do what I'm about to describe and you'll have a complete Co2 Controller based on PPM. A new Telaire Model 8001 basic is $179.10, the C.A.P. PPM-3 is average $450.00 this mod will give you a new PPM-3 if you buy a new Telaire 8001 and follow these steps for $200.00 that's new. Get a used one and add $15.00 to the price because that's all this mod costs.
9. Follow steps 1 thru 5.
We are going to make a modified Piggyback cord for this. A Piggyback cord is the type that you plug in to the wall and on the back is a plug to plug another item right back in to, but it then has a wire coming out the side that leads to another female receptacle to add yet another device. We're building a similar piggyback but it has some mods. I imagine this can be done many ways, but I will describe one and then you can adjust as desired.
9a. First you need standard household male and female plugs set and a piece of wire long enough to reach whatever your controlling (110VAC) (tank, Generator, but this is used more for tanks.) to where your sensor will be mounted.
9b. Cut 12" off your wire and attach the plugs to the ends.(short extension cord).
9c. In the middle of this short cord slice down the covering careful not to cut in to the wires until you can see and get a hold of the white wire. Work it out as much as you can.
9d. Now cut the white wire in the middle and strip the ends. Take the remainder of the wire you got and strip the 2 wires on that end and solder The wire to the white wire ends.
9e. Connect the 2 wires at the other end to pins #4 and #5. Plug your 110VAC item in the female end.
9f. Now set up you sensor.

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mymeds said:

Thanks so much for the reply and offer to help. I'll answer your questions real quick here then go into more detail on some stuff I came across last night that I think will work but I definitely still need a little help understanding it.

-------No, This is on a timer and will run a full 12hr straight. I have it plumbed to natural gas and its very cheap here so not worried about a straight 12 run. Plus with it outside so there should be no chance of extra Co2 build up anywhere

------- As cheap as possible, I think I may have found a solution last night but definitly still need a little help understanding exactly how to wire, and probably more importantly why and how it works. I'm really trying to wrap my melon around all this but not making alot of sense at the moment.

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-------I'll post a couple pics below of my ventilation and inlet for Co2 but I'll try to sum up what I have now and my plan as soon as this run is done. So at the moment I'm relying on mass air exchange @ roughly 3 times per minute in a 7'x8'x8' room been running like this for a long time but after seeing a buddys results in a new room he just built with the exact same strain I'm switching to Co2 (amazing). Once the current girls are done I plan on running the lights in a closed ventilation circuit (Closed from the room but constant fresh air) using a 8" vortex. I recently purchased a 6" vortex that will be used to extract room air at set temp or timed intervals what ever comes first once I move to a sealed vent for the lights. And as far as pressurizing the room a dont think it will be a problem as I will not have any kind of dampers on the room ventilation. So when the Co2 fan kicks in it should naturally push air out the pre filter (shown Below) into the exhaust.
--------------------------------------------------------Co2 Inlet------------------------------------------------------------------ Exhaust (pre filter shown then runs to inline carbon then out a roof vent)

-------Agree, have any suggestions by chance, I've been looking at radio shack ac/dc adapter to run the Co2 monitor and Something like this to power the fan . Am I correct in thinking that its ok to give the fan more than what its power rating is? It seems like that type fan would only draw as much as needed, but again I dont know electricity at all. With what I'm think about now I need two power supply's one for the Co2 monitor and one for the inline fan. And to be honest I'm still unsure about that fan it might actually be a bit to powerful, might suck to much air vs co2.


Ok so last night I got to thinking about the piggyback plug on the cap-ppm3. Basically if I could add the same but diy piggyback to mine, what I would do is plug the piggyback into a timer to only allow the fan to work with the Co2 monitor while the lights are on. So I would plug the telaire into its own power supply then plug the piggyback cord into a timer then into 110 supply and plug the fan into the pigtail off that same cord. I came across a diy thread for the piggyback cord on another site but I really still dont understand it. I'll post it below, What I think is going on is the relay on the monitor hooks into the neutral of the piggy back to complete a circuit, so there's no current going to the monitor the power for what ever you plug in comes from the 110 male and the monitor is just used to complete the circuit neutral or common, unsure. As I'm sure you can tell I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm trying to learn and with some help and maybe explanation I think this should work fine. It would only be for powering the fan at full power so on/off and thats why I may need to play with fan sizes to get a good concentration of co2 coming through the supply line. Anyway if you could help put this stuff below in real basic laymen terms, man I sure would apprecaiate it.

Thanks again

From another site

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i like smokin said:

hope i dont sound like a jackass but i have made a small micro grow box for 2 plants it measures h-120cm b-100cm d-50cm i will be vegin with a 200w cfl and flowerin under a 400w 4000k mh (in a home made cool wing) and have been trying to calculate the air flow rating i need to achive with the online calculators it says around 12cfm p/h (from a few different ones) if this is correct would a 50 cfm pc fan (running through a 4" rhino carbon filter) be enough running constant? and would it be safe to power with a phone charger or simlar type power supply? sorry if iv asked you a stupid question.


there are no stupid questions only stupid people who dont smoke enough

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IAm5toned said:

i have heard that a pc fan is nowhere near strong enough to push air through a carbon filter effectively...

you also need to take into consideration the length of your ducting, how long is it?

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IAm5toned said:

yes, actually, both those power supplies will work. i can also suggest a favorite trick of mine for the fan, if you want speed control on it you can use a model train power supply... just hook the fan up to where the track would hook up to

also the piggyback idea will work as well, what your doing is switching the neutral that runs the fan via the ppm meters aux relay contact. (pins #4 and 5)

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Now cut the white wire in the middle and strip the ends.Take the remainder of the wire you got and strip the 2 wires on that end and solder The wire to the white wire ends.

9e. Connect the 2 wires at the other end to pins #4 and #5. Plug your 110VAC item in the female end.

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mymeds said:

Perfect, using a model train power supply I never in a million years would have thought of that. Now I can still use just that one fan and not have mess with different cfm fans, power suplys, etc.. Thank You Thank You..

I'm still lost on making the piggy back. I can follow what he's talking about up to the second part of 9d


When he says that end, I'm not sure what that end means and also not sure what colors get connected to the white wire I'm splicing into and then which colors actually get hooked to #4 & #5 of the relay. OK while typing this I think it just dawned on me whats going on here. Please let me know If this is correct. It doesn't matter what color the wires are going into the sensor nor to the white wire I'm splicing into. All I'm doing is making a loop to the sensor from the neutral (wht) so one side of the neutral would go to pinout #4 and the other to pinout #5 and all the relay does is open close that circuit. Man, so thats what a relay does So could I just use a spare 2 wire cord I have to run from the sensor to the neutral and use the three wire cord for the piggyback power, just splicing into the white for the relay?

I have an extension cord I can use for the wire and a couple home depot male and female plugs w/ground, so I think I have the stuff I need. The extension cord has three wires black, white, and green. The most I've ever done with electricity is make my own extension cord using plugs I mentioned, and I had to kill a breaker and open up a wall socket to make sure I was wiring the plugs up right.


Again thank you so much..

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IAm5toned said:

yes, you got it.. a relay is a remote controlled switch

what your doing is running the neutral through the relay, so that when the relay closes the circuit is complete.

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