A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

moobyghost

Active Member
Mr. Electrician,

I feel that my current CFL set up is not enough light for flowering. What I would really like to do with my closet grow is Add long Florescent ligh bulbs running vertical around the closet.

How would a person who knows nothing about electrical wiring manage to somehow install say 5 of those long tube lights?
 

Iamabongman

Active Member
Hey bossman,

Quick question. Got a socket that says 250v 50 amps on it and its for my oven. Shit looks real old school. This lone socket is connected to a 40 amp breaker which looks like 2 20s, but it says 40 on it. Well i dont cook so can I rewire some shit and get multiple 120v sockets or 240v sockets?
 

Iamabongman

Active Member
I live in an old building and all the outlets connected to the 20 amp breaker have 2 holes, no ground round hole. Just read about an almost fire so im paranoid. Are these outlets that cannot take grounded plugs without an adapter safe? the other half of the outlets look like the ones in the bathroom with the red and black reset buttons. those are legit right? those sockets are not built into the wall, looks like they were added later.
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm def going to take your advice with the relay, if youcould still give me a diagram that would be great. Remember I'm not an electrician, so try and keep it simple, thanks for all the help.
not a problem, tho it will have to wait till tonite. i owe, i owe so off to work i go :wall:
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
Mr. Electrician,

I feel that my current CFL set up is not enough light for flowering. What I would really like to do with my closet grow is Add long Florescent ligh bulbs running vertical around the closet.

How would a person who knows nothing about electrical wiring manage to somehow install say 5 of those long tube lights?
go to lowes/home depot/ any big box building supply store (wal mart may even sell them) and get yourself some T5 undercabinet light fixtures. they often come complete with lamps for less than 20$ a fixture. they also sell 2 lamp T8 or T12 shop lights as well, but they take up more space. you might be able to find low profile single lamp fixtures as well. either of the three will work just fine, though i reccomend the T5's.
its easy... just get a power strip to plug them all into, and screw them to the walls where you need them.

you can get more complicated and hardwire them directly to a timer, but thats a little more complicated.
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
Hey bossman,

Quick question. Got a socket that says 250v 50 amps on it and its for my oven. Shit looks real old school. This lone socket is connected to a 40 amp breaker which looks like 2 20s, but it says 40 on it. Well i dont cook so can I rewire some shit and get multiple 120v sockets or 240v sockets?
if its an old receptacle, your going to be stuck with 240v unless you want to install new wire.

the good news is they make some pretty cool lighting controllers that will plug right into it for you...
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
I live in an old building and all the outlets connected to the 20 amp breaker have 2 holes, no ground round hole. Just read about an almost fire so im paranoid. Are these outlets that cannot take grounded plugs without an adapter safe? the other half of the outlets look like the ones in the bathroom with the red and black reset buttons. those are legit right? those sockets are not built into the wall, looks like they were added later.
the ones with the buttons are called GFI's (ground fault interruptors) your correct in that they are safer than the older plugs... just make sure you periodically push the test button on them to make sure they work.

the older 2wire plugs are definitely not safe. the newer style 3 wire plugs are grounded so that if there was a fault condition (aka short circuit) the current goes to ground instead of through you.
however, that doesnt mean you cant use them, it just means DONT use them with any type of device that is associated with water or liquid or high humidity.(aquariums, coffee maker, humidifier/dehumidifier, a/c, etc etc OR plug anything into them that is within 6' of a sink or watersource) if you notice the GFI plugs have more than likely been placed so you wouldnt have to use an old plug for a device like that anyways.
if you MUST use them, they make adapters that plug into them, so that you can fit a 3wire cord into, if thats the type of cord your device has. if your cord is a 2 prong plug, it should be fine to use without an adapter.

edit-

yeah duh i just reread and realized you already knew about the adapters......

but i also forgot another fine point i will retouch-
just because i say the plug is ok to use, doesnt mean im correct about it. the only way i could say that with any certainty would be to be there, take the plug apart, and inspect it for a dozen different things. also, old plugs usually mean old wiring, and that is something else i cant vouch for, as i dont have xray glasses and cant telepathically project myself (yet, lol) into your walls to see what the wires look like. having said that, i will also point out that because you have modern plugs close to olds plugs, there's a very high likelyhood the old plugs have already been checked and verified by a competant electrician when the new plugs were added.
bongsmilie
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm def going to take your advice with the relay, if youcould still give me a diagram that would be great. Remember I'm not an electrician, so try and keep it simple, thanks for all the help.



the relay is a 10 amp, FORM C relay with a 120v ac coil. you can get a bigger one if you deisre, the 10 amp is the smallest size ill advise you to use, dont worry it should be a cheap part, less than 20$
the grey line is the neutral, which is normally white....
note how the hot wire from the timer power is also connected to the common on the relay- thats important.
the same "hot" wire that runs the timer will also run the fans, via the relay.
 

kappainf

Well-Known Member


the relay is a 10 amp, FORM C relay with a 120v ac coil. you can get a bigger one if you deisre, the 10 amp is the smallest size ill advise you to use, dont worry it should be a cheap part, less than 20$
the grey line is the neutral, which is normally white....
note how the hot wire from the timer power is also connected to the common on the relay- thats important.
the same "hot" wire that runs the timer will also run the fans, via the relay.

Nice job in the diagram, thank you very much, how much do I owe ya? I really feel like I should be paying you for this professional help. Thanks again!
 

jjp53

Well-Known Member
Here is an age old question is it cheaper to run your 1000W ballast 12 hours a day on 120 or 240? Please explain thank you
 

13grower

Active Member
I am a Master electrician and have done many systems in the last 5 years. The biggest issue I see when I go to places is that the wire size (14awg) used in most 15 amp circuits are being turned into a 20amp circuit and thats not a good thing at all!!! I always go with safety first so I never overload the circuit! I go 80% of the max so not to trip a fuse! Thats a bad thing! Too much heat etc can cause a fire and we dont want that! Always make sure to have the right amp service with the right size wire awg (awg=the size of the wire) Remember that you also get voltage drop for the length of the wire so that should be figured if you are blowing fuses. Here's a few good info note:

AWG: 14 = max amps = 12amps you see a 15amp fuse
12 = max amps = 16amps you see a 20 amp fuse
10 = max amps = 24amps you see a 30 amp fuse

I like running 220 for all high amp lights and 120 for CFL's. That cuts down on the total amps you need in the room.
I am available to do legal grow light systems in the L.A. area. I am also a Alarm guy so I have the background checks and am very decreate! email me here for questions etc...

Nice post!!!
 

imanoob

Well-Known Member
Im moving into a new flat (newish building too...built early 90s)...how do I tell if it has a smart electricity meter? I dont want the power company to see my using 600+watts of power for 12 hours per day....every day. I could mix it up a little by adding in a 250w cfl and change the time patterns of each within the 12hours (250w coming on first at 8am, then the 600w hps and 10am switch off the cfl at 12pm and leave the hps on until 8pm?)

Or...is that overkill?

Also...this whole amps business...whats the deal...how do I check if my lights/fans etc will need more that it allows? Like you said, dont want to cause a fire. Cheers folks :)
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
Here is an age old question is it cheaper to run your 1000W ballast 12 hours a day on 120 or 240? Please explain thank you
well... trick question.
one will run cheaper than the other, but only very slightly. here's why:

what really matters is not the ballast's voltage, but the ballast's power factor.
In a purely resistive AC circuit, voltage and current waveforms are in step (or in phase), changing polarity at the same instant in each cycle. Where reactive loads are present, such as with capacitors or inductors, energy storage in the loads result in a time difference between the current and voltage waveforms. During each cycle of the AC voltage, extra energy, in addition to any energy consumed in the load, is temporarily stored in the load in electric or magnetic fields, and then returned to the power grid a fraction of a second later in the cycle. The "ebb and flow" of this nonproductive power increases the current in the line. Thus, a circuit with a low power factor will use higher currents to transfer a given quantity of real power than a circuit with a high power factor. A linear load does not change the shape of the waveform of the current, but may change the relative timing (phase) between voltage and current.
Circuits containing purely resistive heating elements (filament lamps, strip heaters, cooking stoves, etc.) have a power factor of 1.0. Circuits containing inductive or capacitive elements (electric motors, solenoid valves, lamp ballasts, and others ) often have a power factor below 1.0.
a ballast is an inductive load... so its going to have a low power factor to begin with. your cheaper magnetic ballasts typically have the lowest power factors, while digital ballasts have active power factor correctors built in, which gives them a higher power factor rating. (this is also what makes them 'digital', FYI.)

you could say that the power factor is a measurement of efficiency of the wattage/current demand of an energized device.

however, unfortunately, the power companies bill you for wattage, not amperage. because amperage is inversely proportionate to voltage, however wattage remains the same.
example-

1000w @ 120v = 8.333 amps
1000w @ 240v = 4.166 amps

so why do I save money when i use 240v then, if the wattage never changes?

that, is a rather simple question now that you know what power factor is.
the power factor of a device is dependent on the amperage of the circuit.... the power factor is determined by:
When the need arises to correct for poor power factor in an AC power system, you probably won't have the luxury of knowing the load's exact inductance in henrys to use for your calculations. You may be fortunate enough to have an instrument called a power factor meter to tell you what the power factor is (a number between 0 and 1), and the apparent power (which can be figured by taking a voltmeter reading in volts and multiplying by an ammeter reading in amps). In less favorable circumstances you may have to use an oscilloscope to compare voltage and current waveforms, measuring phase shift in degrees and calculating power factor by the cosine of that phase shift.
Most likely, you will have access to a wattmeter for measuring true power, whose reading you can compare against a calculation of apparent power (from multiplying total voltage and total current measurements). From the values of true and apparent power, you can determine reactive power and power factor. Let's do an example problem to see how this works: (Figure below)

Wattmeter reads true power; product of voltmeter and ammeter readings yields appearant power.
First, we need to calculate the apparent power in kVA. We can do this by multiplying load voltage by load current:

As we can see, 2.308 kVA is a much larger figure than 1.5 kW, which tells us that the power factor in this circuit is rather poor (substantially less than 1). Now, we figure the power factor of this load by dividing the true power by the apparent power:
the lower the amperage, the higher the power factor.
a 240v ballast uses less amperage than a 120v ballast, both pulling the same watts, which increases the 240v ballasts power factor... in laymans terms, because its more efficient.

hope i didnt confuse you to bad. power factor is a complex thing to understand, and i tried to keep it as simple as I could.

bongsmilie
 

moobyghost

Active Member
go to lowes/home depot/ any big box building supply store (wal mart may even sell them) and get yourself some T5 undercabinet light fixtures. they often come complete with lamps for less than 20$ a fixture. they also sell 2 lamp T8 or T12 shop lights as well, but they take up more space. you might be able to find low profile single lamp fixtures as well. either of the three will work just fine, though i reccomend the T5's.
its easy... just get a power strip to plug them all into, and screw them to the walls where you need them.

you can get more complicated and hardwire them directly to a timer, but thats a little more complicated.

Like this? http://www.amazon.com/Good-Earth-Lighting-G9712P-T5-WHES-Fluorescent/dp/B000EEW0T6/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b

It is cheap but wattage is almost non exsistant.

:/
 
here is a fairly simple question asked in a thread i made recently and I wanted to know if this would work.
I was wondering if I was able to use this 430watt HPS bulb http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/eca...LIPS317107.htm

with this particular HPS ballast
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-400-watt-HPS...item5d276714c9

...my next question would be even if it put out at only 400w, would it be a stronger lumen spectrum than the original bulb that came with?

just wondering if it would work with no problems.

Thanks for your help in advance!
 

tightpockt

Well-Known Member
Hey..great thread. I just bought a stanley electrical book just to get a basic understanding of electricity in the home and so far it's awesome but not nearly as detailed as the info in here.
 
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