a couple questions for the pros

DrOctopus · Feb 13, 2014

First off I have two girls who I took to term and harvested only to find they had been knocked up. I truely dont know how this happened. Every male was detected early and pulled immediately well befor they had a chance to open up and spray. It has only happened to 2 out of 7 and the one had very minimal seeds but the second was chalked full. I am going to use the seeds but I dont know what they crossed with. I know the mom is skunk 1 but anyways how can this happen and how can i prevent it?

Next, I have a couple of ladies who are developing very slowly it seems they are taking forever to mature about 70 percent of the pistils are still white and Im not sure of the tric development due to the fact that I dont have a mic I have ordered one though. I guess the question is is it possible to keep feeding a plant in flower so it will never die I know plants have have a life cycle but am I keeping it alive by nut flushing it and feeding it. I harvested its sisters of the same age weeks ago. Also how does everyone feel about the dark cycle? Whats thje process of harvest is it flush and go to dark for two days then harvest or what?

qwizoking · Feb 13, 2014

this post made me laugh.
Well first if you removed all males prior to the sack dropping then you had a female herm.. its inferior genetics
Some strains are prone to this at the end of flower or simply when stressed, heat light leaks etc.. but its all inferior genetics and should nit be implemented in a breeding program. But if you really like the bud and don't grow perpetually a herm may not be a big deal to you..especially if its only a few seeds

Second its probly taking longer because its more sativa dominant/has a longer flowering time..yes you can keep a plant alive essentially forever until disease or genetic fuck ups kill it..flushing is a waste of time unless you are removing excess salt build up..if you mean only give plain water the last bit, that is also not beneficial unless you overfed the plant, its overfed if leaves curl or are very dark green making the cure much harder

Doer · Feb 13, 2014

The answer is, "Or what?"

Seriously I have no idea where this turn off the lights at the end of bloom comes from.

Stupid.

Adjorr · Feb 13, 2014

the reasoning for the last 2 days of darkness is that it increases resin production as the plant tries to protect its valuable flowers however havent seen any side bsie cmparison to prove its better. yes it is possible to keep the plant alive after harvest just make sure you leave all the small fuzzy growth at the bottom and the plant will reveg under a veg light cycle, there is a risk of hermies however and the reveging procces can take up to 2 months so its usually just makes more sense to start a new plant. However plants that have been reveged succesfuly make excelent mothers as they become extremely branchy so if u have a great phenotype you really want to keep it then give it a shot.
Flushing is anoter on one of those things thats debated a lot, i personaly dont see the benefit but some people swear by it saying it gives better flavor, personaly i like my plants to be able to feed right up until harvest

Cobnobuler · Feb 13, 2014

I believe too that the Hermie issues arise mostly from genetics. My last run of DNA Chocolope did this to me where 2 of the 3 produced seeds. One more so than the other one. I didnt even see them until they were curing. Thing is, I'm very careful about light leaks, timers etc so I think more and more that genetics have much to do with it.
I need to get back to using Sannies seeds that NEVER hermied no matter which strains I ran.

Doer · Feb 13, 2014

Adjorr said:
the reasoning for the last 2 days of darkness is that it increases resin production as the plant tries to protect its valuable flowers however havent seen any side bsie cmparison to prove its better. yes it is possible to keep the plant alive after harvest just make sure you leave all the small fuzzy growth at the bottom and the plant will reveg under a veg light cycle, there is a risk of hermies however and the reveging procces can take up to 2 months so its usually just makes more sense to start a new plant. However plants that have been reveged succesfuly make excelent mothers as they become extremely branchy so if u have a great phenotype you really want to keep it then give it a shot.
Flushing is anoter on one of those things thats debated a lot, i personaly dont see the benefit but some people swear by it saying it gives better flavor, personaly i like my plants to be able to feed right up until harvest

So, exactly. Just a myth. And we can try this stuff before we pass it along as myth.

Flushing is not a myth. It is all in the burn after the cure. And I will tell you a bud feel real sticky when it has not been flushed.

But, then it won't burn well, and tastes a little weird. OTH, if I cut back the feed to 1/4 for a week, then water with sugars based leaching, it is much better.
It burns to a white ash and tastes good.

dannyboy602 · Feb 13, 2014

There will always be a few nanners you don't see so get used to it.
You can't extend a flowering period by much no matter what you do. It's all in the plants prewritten DNA.

qwizoking · Feb 13, 2014

I always find it humorous when people flush in order to get a white ash...

I use the "worst" nutes you can buy, but I know how nutes effect the plant and burn qualities so I only look at types of nutes and ratios.no crackling here and black ash is a bad cure...flushing is debated alot around here but its proven that it doesn't lower nutes in your bud. Just forms an abscission layer(Google it).. the white ash is literally the nutes and nutes are actually good and improve the burn qualities, yes my ash burns to white..potassium for example expands when hot and helps it burn much more efficiently calcium adds weight and mass to the ash while making it whiter but too much makes it flakey, sulphur ammonical n and chlorinated nutes negatively impact burn qualities etc etc I mean the tobacco industry laid it all out for us already, we just have to modify how we cure as we are dealing with volatile compounds and understanding what we are after isn't a nitrate but phosphate(terpenes come from phosphates). No other crop is flushed including tobacco so that you get the best burn, yield and quality..the cure is very important But fresh herb barely dry enough to smoke with no cure doesn't crackle much except for the moisture and resin but leaves it black
Flushing is counterproductive imo and only serves to foxtail my landrace Sativas

the cure is important and the fowl taste associated with not flushing is simply a poor cure..a harsh hot acrid taste is from burning starches and chlorophyll....also associated with newbs overfeeding making the cure that much harder..keeping the plant moist enough to stay alive and still maintain gass transfer..through this natural process of hydrolysis and respiration the components are broken down and becomes smooth..this process is known as the cure

Night and day difference in curing ..
Reduction in Chlorophyll content, doesn't taste like smoking veggies
Reduction in plant starch content,and sugars, creating asmooth smoke that will just expand nicely in your lungs, won't even feel it go down
Reduction in nitrate levels,less carcinogenic, always good right and cleaner
polycyclic aromatization and oxidation of terpenoids altering the flavor profile more robust with a higher ppm sensory threshold , less perfumey even soapy or "green" from corresponding aldehydes and ketones
Reduction of and consistent moisture content, even slow burn and no smoldering or black ash unwilling to burn

I've done the 48hr darkness and many other myths. I do actually believe it to have some merit. Though its not extreme...you harvest when trichs turn 20% amber or your personal preference. But they have turned cloudy and started degrading resulting in amber trichs. Once they turn cloudy they are done producing so the dark period allows the trichs that haven't finished producing to mature without the heat and light from your hps degrading already finished heads. And retaining the lighter terpenes that might have evaporated away ...
If only all trichs matured at the same time

Doer · Feb 13, 2014

Well true there seems to be new "stories" against flushing. I have been looking for a controlled study with specto-analysis of the material.

I'd like to see some evidence.

Jbone77 · Feb 13, 2014

The 2 days of darkness to increase resin production is silly. I dont remember where but there was a study done a few years back and they found one pheno of one particular white strain would trich up a little more if left in uninterupted darkness for 2 days but the other phenos of the same strain did nothing, if there was any light in that 2 days it wouldnt happen. They tested other white strains and nothing happened. They didnt know why it happened but they tested it on cuts and it was repeatable. I have tried it but I cant leave a finished plant alone for 2 hrs let alone 2 days so it didnt do anything. Chop it, hang it, trim it, jar it. Flushing doesnt make ur bud burn or taste better but overfeeding until chop is entirely different.

DrOctopus · Feb 13, 2014

This has been the most I have learned from a thread ever. Thank you and when I called the pros out they came. It is greatly appreciated and I am not sure about the darkness one way or the other I just experiment and I have been doing so for a couple grows and there isn't much difference I am really grateful for the insight

DrOctopus · Feb 13, 2014

If you are curious to which plants I am speaking of check out my journal.

RIKNSTEIN · Feb 13, 2014

qwizoking said:
I always find it humorous when people flush in order to get a white ash...

I use the "worst" nutes you can buy, but I know how nutes effect the plant and burn qualities so I only look at types of nutes and ratios.no crackling here and black ash is a bad cure...flushing is debated alot around here but its proven that it doesn't lower nutes in your bud. Just forms an abscission layer(Google it).. the white ash is literally the nutes and nutes are actually good and improve the burn qualities, yes my ash burns to white..potassium for example expands when hot and helps it burn much more efficiently calcium adds weight and mass to the ash while making it whiter but too much makes it flakey, sulphur ammonical n and chlorinated nutes negatively impact burn qualities etc etc I mean the tobacco industry laid it all out for us already, we just have to modify how we cure as we are dealing with volatile compounds and understanding what we are after isn't a nitrate but phosphate(terpenes come from phosphates). No other crop is flushed including tobacco so that you get the best burn, yield and quality..the cure is very important But fresh herb barely dry enough to smoke with no cure doesn't crackle much except for the moisture and resin but leaves it black
Flushing is counterproductive imo and only serves to foxtail my landrace Sativas

the cure is important and the fowl taste associated with not flushing is simply a poor cure..a harsh hot acrid taste is from burning starches and chlorophyll....also associated with newbs overfeeding making the cure that much harder..keeping the plant moist enough to stay alive and still maintain gass transfer..through this natural process of hydrolysis and respiration the components are broken down and becomes smooth..this process is known as the cure

Night and day difference in curing ..
Reduction in Chlorophyll content, doesn't taste like smoking veggies
Reduction in plant starch content,and sugars, creating asmooth smoke that will just expand nicely in your lungs, won't even feel it go down
Reduction in nitrate levels,less carcinogenic, always good right and cleaner
polycyclic aromatization and oxidation of terpenoids altering the flavor profile more robust with a higher ppm sensory threshold , less perfumey even soapy or "green" from corresponding aldehydes and ketones
Reduction of and consistent moisture content, even slow burn and no smoldering or black ash unwilling to burn

I've done the 48hr darkness and many other myths. I do actually believe it to have some merit. Though its not extreme...you harvest when trichs turn 20% amber or your personal preference. But they have turned cloudy and started degrading resulting in amber trichs. Once they turn cloudy they are done producing so the dark period allows the trichs that haven't finished producing to mature without the heat and light from your hps degrading already finished heads. And retaining the lighter terpenes that might have evaporated away ...
If only all trichs matured at the same time

Man Qwizo, we need our like buttons back :bigjoint:

...outstanding information buddy :bigjoint:

jpizzle4shizzle · Feb 13, 2014

Just a quick question, im new to growing and its hard to filter out the b.s..... I personally only try reading from uncle ben but I know there are other great growers here as well..... but jw on germinating seeds paper towel method or no?
Im not the brightest but I really see very little point in putting in the paper towel method, I feel like putting it in the dirt is the most efficient way, any thoughts on this?

I just feel like by the time a taproot has popped out, in the soil it could be closer to busting out of the soil as opposed to just planting... theres a lot of bad info and I want to see what the point in the paper towel method is lol just seems like an extra step

Jbone77 · Feb 13, 2014

jpizzle4shizzle said:
Just a quick question, im new to growing and its hard to filter out the b.s..... I personally only try reading from uncle ben but I know there are other great growers here as well..... but jw on germinating seeds paper towel method or no?
Im not the brightest but I really see very little point in putting in the paper towel method, I feel like putting it in the dirt is the most efficient way, any thoughts on this?

I just feel like by the time a taproot has popped out, in the soil it could be closer to busting out of the soil as opposed to just planting... theres a lot of bad info and I want to see what the point in the paper towel method is lol just seems like an extra step

I plant directly into a rockwool cube or cup of soil, cover em up with plastic wrap and put em on my water heater for 2 days, they always pop. I uncover em and put em under a cfl for 5 days and then under hid to veg. Works great, even tho everyone seems to use the paper towel method its silly to me.

jpizzle4shizzle · Feb 13, 2014

Jbone77 said:
I plant directly into a rockwool cube or cup of soil, cover em up with plastic wrap and put em on my water heater for 2 days, they always pop. I uncover em and put em under a cfl for 5 days and then under hid to veg. Works great, even tho everyone seems to use the paper towel method its silly to me.

Exactly, I find it silly as well but that is their advice lol but I basically do the same except I go with soil or seed starter, I probably need rockwhool though cause my latest seed popped and its very yellow.
Thanks for the reply, I just started attempting to grow but as far as germinating, all have popped out of the soil in two or three days lol so thats why I question it, just seems paper towel method takes longer

RIKNSTEIN · Feb 13, 2014

jpizzle4shizzle said:
Just a quick question, im new to growing and its hard to filter out the b.s..... I personally only try reading from uncle ben but I know there are other great growers here as well..... but jw on germinating seeds paper towel method or no?
Im not the brightest but I really see very little point in putting in the paper towel method, I feel like putting it in the dirt is the most efficient way, any thoughts on this?
I just feel like by the time a taproot has popped out, in the soil it could be closer to busting out of the soil as opposed to just planting... theres a lot of bad info and I want to see what the point in the paper towel method is lol just seems like an extra step

I usually put them into a solo cup of bean starter mix (already very moist) about a 1/2 inch down...they usually pop in 3 days, if not it's weak IMO...

Jbone77 said:
I plant directly into a rockwool cube or cup of soil, cover em up with plastic wrap and put em on my water heater for 2 days, they always pop. I uncover em and put em under a cfl for 5 days and then under hid to veg. Works great, even tho everyone seems to use the paper towel method its silly to me.

The only thing I put a plastic dome on, or a heating pad under, is my clones...the beans are already under soil, so plenty dark...I put them in my CFL veg room for 3-4 weeks so I don't waste a lot of unnecessary electricity...that way when the shadows outweigh the light I switch to my HIDs and they are ready for some baby food :bigjoint:

peace and good luck...

Jbone77 · Feb 13, 2014

jpizzle4shizzle said:
Exactly, I find it silly as well but that is their advice lol but I basically do the same except I go with soil or seed starter, I probably need rockwhool though cause my latest seed popped and its very yellow.
Thanks for the reply, I just started attempting to grow but as far as germinating, all have popped out of the soil in two or three days lol so thats why I question it, just seems paper towel method takes longer

Yeah, they all say it works perfectly but so does just planting the damn thing. No need for rockwool unless you are going hydro or soilless, if ur growing in soil then germ in soil or a plug. They also say hid is too strong for seedlings but the shit grows just fine under the sun and thats a pretty intense light , its not like the seeds just fall from the plant, land in dirt, germ and grow under the sun naturally every year. The more technical you make things the smarter you are ya know.

jpizzle4shizzle · Feb 13, 2014

RIKNSTEIN said:
I usually put them into a solo cup of bean starter mix (already very moist) about a 1/2 inch down...they usually pop in 3 days, if not it's weak IMO...

The only thing I put a plastic dome on, or a heating pad under, is my clones...the beans are already under soil, so plenty dark...I put them in my CFL veg room for 3-4 weeks so I don't waste a lot of unnecessary electricity...that way when the shadows outweigh the light I switch to my HIDs and they are ready for some baby food peace and good luck...

I appreciate your advice as it confirms my thoughts, so thanks. .. we need a pro paper towel method person to jump in, I just want to kno where it came from and why do people tell others to do it????
Btw thoughts on leds? I have a small cabinet grow so hps n mh are out of the question... jw if ill need some cfls for side lighting and what not... any and all advice is appreciated even if u think leds are garbage lol

jpizzle4shizzle · Feb 13, 2014

Jbone77 said:
Yeah, they all say it works perfectly but so does just planting the damn thing. No need for rockwool unless you are going hydro or soilless, if ur growing in soil then germ in soil or a plug. They also say hid is too strong for seedlings but the shit grows just fine under the sun and thats a pretty intense light , its not like the seeds just fall from the plant, land in dirt, germ and grow under the sun naturally every year. The more technical you make things the smarter you are ya know.

Thanks a lot man, Im glad I didnt find out about rockwhool the wrong way... also about seed starting mix I used some cheap stuff I think, and im wondering how soon I should transplant? Im scared roots will have a hard time getting through the peat mixture

a couple questions for the pros

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