a few days of dark before harvest???

Brick Top

New Member
thc can be gotten using the butane extraction method from all parts of the plant to a varying degree. I know this is true because i make honey oil out of vegetating leaves/stems and clippings all the time. You just grind up all your clippings and stuff down to a powder and then run butane through it under pressure. This will dissolve the small amount of THC that is present in this material and once you boil off the butane you can strait smoke it, eat it, anything; it is pure resin. You can also smoke stem or trich covered leaves and get high to a varrying degree, it just gives you a mad headache because of all the chlorophyll and nitrogen in those parts of the plant. We smoke sensimilla now, but people used to smoke most of the hemp plant back before we started hardcore breeding THC production into the current day MJ plant.

Bubble hash is knocking trichs off the outside of leaves and bud using cold water generally. If you took all the shit u used for bubble hash, dried it and then ground it up and ran butane through it you would get a little bit of honey oil.

I am curious about something. How do you extract THC from portions of a plant where THC never existed?

The chemicals that THC are made from are secreted by the glands of the trichomes that are resin/THC producing trichomes (not all trichomes produce THC, only about roughly 1% of them) and then in the trichomes the chemicals are combined to produce THC.

THC is not produced anywhere else in plants so how do you extract THC from portions of plants where no THC exists?
 

Da juice

Member
sup sorry for not replying sooner but trust me 72 hours of darkness does work there have been scientific studies on this exact subject that tells you this now dont get me wrong im not a scientist but i have done my own tests and they support this claim the way i do it is the last 3 days before harvest while flushing with ph balanced h2o total darkness! Im not saying its a necessary but something you might want to try thanks and good luck growing!
 

Demosthenese

Well-Known Member
ill go brush up on my mj anatomy/chemical production before i start throwing technical terms like THC around, fair enough, but it is a fact that you can get honey oil from the stems and leaves of a vegging plant because i do it ALL THE TIME lol, and im pretty sure minute amounts of THC are present in all parts of the plant, including the seeds.
I've done it to bud too, and while the quality is probably better, it's not signifigant. Hypothetically try smoking some stem; it will get you high, if only a little and with a mad headache. If you pack some stem in a pipe and then only smoke the outside layer off of them it will be less horrible, but butane extraction of molecules of THC is definetly the way to go.
So I'll admit a lack of knowledge of what chemical (THC, CBC, CBN as the main canibinoids) it is that is still getting me high since there are hundreads of canabinoids and they all contribute to the high. But you can definetly do it; i just don't want nubs to start throwing away stem they could be making into free hash :)
 

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
I have tryed the 36 hrs dark before harvest a few times (different strains) and personally came to the conclusion that I was wasteing time. I do cut down after 12hrs of dark just before lights on.
And as far as stems go, well I think the writer for high times (Ashely Boudreaux) say's it all on page 88 May 09 issue;
" Sounds of a needle being uncermoniously draged across an old record. Stems and seeds won't get you high. Stems can be steeped for a lovely tea, which will have some thc in it....enough for a gnat to get stoned."
 

Demosthenese

Well-Known Member
like everything else, i bet this depends a lot on strain differences, something people seem to typically forget can be HUGE
 

carminef

Member
I just put 2 white widows in the dark yesterday following 15 weeks of flowering, I just couldn't get the trichomes to turn amber, but I checked on them this morning and their thick with trichomes. Hopefully this will turn the trichomes to amber, we'll see!
 

Smokealotapotamus

Well-Known Member
Is it possible that instead of stressing them into producing more resin instead they produce male flowers as their last resort? And if so, is it possible that when you cut and hang the buds they could begin seed production since they are still growing to some degree? Or is it pretty much risk free to leave them in the dark?

I am curious cause my plants are about to 12 hours of darkness and ready to harvest..fighting the urge to do it tonight instead of in another day and a half.:eyesmoke:
 

Smokealotapotamus

Well-Known Member
72 hrs darkness is an old hippie fable. plants get energy from the sun, there is no way that taking the energy from a plant can make it do better. and just so you all know, plants are not conscious so they don't "think winter is coming".
Plants don't need a conscious. What do you think we change the light cycles for? They are photosensitive. Therefore 72 hrs darkness might just trigger some sort of survival mechanism or hormone production that you don't know about. Aside from your personal opinion you may have about light deprived buds vs non-light deprived buds, I don't see how you would have any real way to know unless you've done some fact gathering or research.
 

jsgrwn

Well-Known Member
Plants don't need a conscious. What do you think we change the light cycles for? They are photosensitive. Therefore 72 hrs darkness might just trigger some sort of survival mechanism or hormone production that you don't know about. Aside from your personal opinion you may have about light deprived buds vs non-light deprived buds, I don't see how you would have any real way to know unless you've done some fact gathering or research.
i have done many other test and have been growing for many years, so i think i am a bit knowledgable in this subject. and all i can say is that there is NOTHING that you or anyone else can do in 24-72 hours that will change/outweigh what you have done for the past several months caring for the plants. resin production would already be dying down by this time in the plants cycle as well, perhaps this is why they turn amber...just my 2 cents
 

Green Cross

Well-Known Member
i have done many other test and have been growing for many years, so i think i am a bit knowledgable in this subject. and all i can say is that there is NOTHING that you or anyone else can do in 24-72 hours that will change/outweigh what you have done for the past several months caring for the plants. resin production would already be dying down by this time in the plants cycle as well, perhaps this is why they turn amber...just my 2 cents
Exactly - the THC is already degrading, so why wait 3 more days? :roll:

Sunlight and heat degrade THC so it's good to harvest before daylight, but I've done the 72 hour wait and as far as I can tell I wasted my time. I saw no difference... from the buds I harvested 3 days earlier.
 

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
i have done many other test and have been growing for many years, so i think i am a bit knowledgable in this subject. and all i can say is that there is NOTHING that you or anyone else can do in 24-72 hours that will change/outweigh what you have done for the past several months caring for the plants. resin production would already be dying down by this time in the plants cycle as well, perhaps this is why they turn amber...just my 2 cents
Exactly - the THC is already degrading, so why wait 3 more days? :roll:

Sunlight and heat degrade THC so it's good to harvest before daylight, but I've done the 72 hour wait and as far as I can tell I wasted my time. I saw no difference... from the buds I harvested 3 days earlier.
Same here. Been there, tryed that, never a change in any of the 5 strains I tryed.
 

kkkllol

Active Member
what about keeping the light on for 72 hours before harvesting ,more light more thc maybe , just an opposite guess im bored.
 

growerboy

Active Member
quick q

say if my trichs wernt at my desired level of amber/cloudy but close...could i try the 72 hrs of dark? and woulod u think there would be any more trich development? or am i just way to high to grasp this right now
I too would like to know the answer to that question :)
 

Brick Top

New Member
ill go brush up on my mj anatomy/chemical production before i start throwing technical terms like THC around, fair enough, but it is a fact that you can get honey oil from the stems and leaves of a vegging plant because i do it ALL THE TIME lol, and im pretty sure minute amounts of THC are present in all parts of the plant, including the seeds.

I am sorry to have to be the one to have to tell you this but you are wrong. THC is created within the trichome-head and no where else on or in a marijuana plant, and definitely not in seeds. You cannot find THC anywhere in a marijuana plant other then in the trichome-head where it is created and then stored.
 
If you get, as you put it; "honey oil" from stems and leaves is only because they are covered with trichomes with THC producing resin-heads on them. If not what you are getting is not; "honey oil."





What are Trichomes?




capitate stalked trichome photo by: Eirik

Although cannabis resin glands called trichomes are structurally diverse, they come in three basic varieties:


Bulbous:
The bulbous type is the smallest (15-30 micron). From one to four cells make up the "foot" and "stalk," and one to four cells make up the "head" of the gland. Head cells secrete a resin - presumably cannabinoids, and related compounds which accumulate between the head cells and the cuticle. When the gland matures, a nipple-like protrusion may form on the membrane from the pressure of the accumulating resin. The bulbous glands are found scattered about the surfaces of the above-ground plant parts.

Capitate-Sessile:
The second type of gland is much larger & is more numerous than the bulbous glands. They are called capitate, which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush, appearing not to have a stalk and are called capitate sessile. They actually have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. The head is composed of usually eight, but up to 16 cells, that form a convex rosette. These cells secrete cannabinoids, and related compounds which accumulate between the rosette and it's outer membrane. This gives it a spherical shape. The gland measures from 25 to 100 micron across.

Capitate-Stalked:
Cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked gland which consists of a tier of secretory disc cells subtending a large non-cellular secretory cavity. During flowering the capitate glands that appear on the newly formed plant parts take on a third form. Some of the glands are raised to a height of 150 to 500 micron when their stalks elongate. These capitate-stalked glands appear during flowering and form their densest cover on the female flower bracts. They are also highly concentrated on the small leaves that accompany the flowers. The male flowers have stalked glands on the sepals, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female bracts. Male flowers form a row of very large capitate glands along the opposite sides of anthers.



photo by: Proof_of_the_pudding


photo by: Proof_of_the_pudding
The figures above denote capitate-stalked trichomes with green arrows, the bulbous trichomes with yellow arrows & the red arrows mark the capitate-sessile trichomes. Cyan arrows denote cystolith hairs.

Life inside a capitate-stalked trichome

image by: Snaps_Provolone
Disc cells, attached to leaf or bract by stipe cells (RED) & basal cells (GREEN), release fibrillar wall matrix into secretory cavity where it contributes to thickening of subcuticular wall during enlargement of secretory cavity. Plastids (ORANGE) in disc cells produce secretions called lipoplasts which synthesize quantities of lipophilic substances that accumulate outside the plasma membrane, migrating into the endoplasmic reticular cytoplasm and through the plasma membrane and cell wall into the secretory cavity where they form vesicles (BLUE) in the secretory cavity. Vesicles in contact with the subcuticular wall release contents that contribute to the growth of the cuticle during the enlargement of the secretory cavity. THC occurs in the walls, fibrillar matrix & other contents surrounding the vesicles, but not in the vesicles. Trace amounts of THC is present in the disc cells.


photo by: Eirik


When to harvest your trichomes
There are several schools of thought as to when it is the time to harvest. I shall attempt to explain how you can determine the harvesting time that will produce the most favorable psychoactive effect for your individual preferences.

We are most concerned with the capitate-stalked trichomes, as these contain the overwhelming majority of the psychoactive cannabinoids (THC, THCV, CBN). Different cannabinoids affect the high in a multifaceted manner.

THC:
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol & delta-8-tetrahydrocannabinol - THC mimics the action of anandamide, a neurotransmitter produced naturally in the body, which binds with the cannabinoid receptors in the brain to produce the ?high? associated with marijuana. THC possesses high UV-B (280-315 nm) absorption properties.

THCV:
tetrahydrocannabivarin - prevalent in certain South African and Southeast Asian strains of cannabis. It is said to produce a ?clearer high? & seems to possess many of the therapeutic properties of THC.

CBD:
cannabidiol - previously believed to be psychoactive, or to contribute to the high by interacting with other cannabinoids, conversely the most recent research indicates that CBD has negligible effect on the high, it is however a strong anti-inflammatory, and may take the edge off some THC effects, such as anxiety. CBD as a non-psychoactive cannabinoid appears to be helpful for many medical conditions. CBD biosynthesizes into cannabinol (CBN) & tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

CBN:
cannabinol - a degradation product of THC, produces a depressant effect, ?fuzzy? forehead.

CBC:
cannabichromene - non-psychoactive , a precursor to THC.

CBG:
cannabigerol - non-psychoactive, hemp strains often posses elevated levels of CBG while possessing only trace amounts of THC.

Heavy trichome production is not necessarily an indication of a potent plant. Some hemp strains have moderate layers of trichomes yet pack only a strong headache. In a drug strain, a thick layer of trichomes is a symbol that it may well posses an elevated potency level, but it is certainly not a guarantee.

What defines a cannabis drug strain is the plant's ability to produce THC & THCV.

A small 25x or stronger pocket microscope, which can be picked up inexpensively at an electronics store like Radio Shack, works well for getting a closer peek at your trichome development. We are examining are the capitate stalked glandular trichomes, the coloration of these gland heads can vary between strains and maturity. Most strains start with clear or slightly amber heads which gradually become cloudy or opaque when THC levels have peaked and are beginning to degrade. Regardless of the initial color of the secretory cavity, with careful observation you should be able to see a change in coloration as maturity levels off.

Some cultivators wait for about half of the secretory cavities to go opaque before harvesting, to ensure maximum THC levels in the finished product. Of course nothing tells the truth more than your own perception, so try samples at various stages to see what is best for you & the phenotype your are growing. While you may be increasing the total THC level in the bud by allowing half of the glands to go opaque, the bud will also have a larger percentage of THC breakdown products such as CBN, which is why some people choose to harvest earlier while most of the secretory cavities are still clear.

Indica varieties will usually have a 10-15 day harvest window to work with. Sativas and Indica/Sativa hybrids often have an extended period to work with.


photo by: Eirik


photo by: Proof_of_the_pudding
The figures above denotes clear trichomes with green arrows, the cloudy trichomes with yellow arrows & the red arrows mark the amber trichomes.

Why did trichomes evolve in nature?
Cannabis has evolved trichomes for a multitude of uses in nature, some of these require THC & other cannabinoids to be effective, and others that do not.

Insect Protection:
Many insects find the thick coating of trichomes unpleasant, this offers a level of protection for the developing seeds.

Animals:
The layer of trichomes and cystolith hairs makes cannabis less palatable to many herbivores & omnivores.

Desiccation:
The layer of trichomes helps to 'insulate' the pistilate (female) flower from low humidity levels and high wind.

UV-B Light:
UV-B light is harmful to living things, THC has very high UV-B adsorption properties, thus cannabis evolution may have favored the evolution of genotypes that produced these THC laden capitate-stalked trichomes as a built in 'sun-screen' for protection against UV-B light rays.

Fungal Protection:
Some of the compounds present in the trichomes actually inhibit the growths of some types of fungus.

Quite possibly, the most important reason for the evolution of the THC laden capitate-stalked trichomes is the intercession of man in the natural selection process, favoring genotypes that produce copious amounts of THC laden trichomes.


Inside the Trichome




By Bubbleman and Jeremiah Vandermeer, Cannabis Culture - Thursday, June 11 2009 Tags:
CANNABIS CULTURE - An up-close look at the THC-producing resin glands of the cannabis plant through pot-ographer Bubbleman's macro lens.
If you’ve seen pictures of mature cannabis plants taken with a macroscopic lens that’s zoomed-in very close, then you’ve undoubtedly noticed the many glistening translucent resin glands protruding from the buds, leaves, and just about everywhere else on the plant (see “Stalking Trichomes”, CC #72). Most marijuana growers and readers of pot magazines are quite familiar – and some downright obsessed – with these resinous outgrowths known as trichomes. You may have also read that the sticky coating of trichomes is home to the active ingredients in cannabis – the stuff that gets you high and has all the medical benefits – tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabidiol (CBD), and other cannabinoids. But have you ever wondered exactly what the trichomes do for the cannabis plant, or what biological purpose they serve?
Sticky resinous growths knows as trichomes are home to the active ingredients in cannabis. (Click picture to enlarge)Evolution of Trichomes
In nature, only the strong survive, and it is hypothesized by biologists that trichomes evolved as a defense mechanism of the cannabis plant against a range of potential enemies (1). Trichomes, from the Greek meaning ‘growth of hair,’ act as an evolutionary shield, protecting the plant and its seeds from the dangers of its environment, allowing it to reproduce. These adhesive sprouts form a protective layer against offensive insects, preventing them from reaching the surface of the plant. The chemicals in the trichomes make cannabis less palatable to hungry animals and can inhibit the growth of some types of fungus. The resin also helps to insulate the plant from high wind and low humidity, and acts as a natural ‘sun-screen’ in protecting against UV-B light rays. But since trichomes contain euphoric properties attractive to humans, it may be man who has had the most influence on the plants’ development through many years of favoring strains that consistently produce more of these gooey resin heads.
Trichome Types
Trichomes grow in numerous shapes and sizes on many types of plants. The cannabis plant has developed three main types (from NationMaster Encyclopedia):
Bulbous: This type is the smallest (15 to 30 micrometers). From one to four cells make up the ‘foot’ and ‘stalk’, and one to four cells make up the ‘head’ of the gland. Head cells secrete a resin, presumably cannabinoids, and related compounds that accumulate between the head cells and the cuticle. When the gland matures, a nipple-like protrusion may form on the membrane from the pressure of accumulating resin. The bulbous glands are found scattered about the surfaces of the aboveground plant parts. [Pictured below.]

Capitate-Sessile: The second type of gland is larger (25 to 100 micrometers) and more numerous than the bulbous glands. They are called capitate, which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush, appearing not to have a stalk and are called capitate sessile. They have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. The head is composed of usually eight, but up to 16 cells, that form a convex rosette. These cells secrete cannabinoids and related compounds that accumulate between the rosette and its outer membrane. This gives it a spherical shape.
Capitate-Stalked: Cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked glands, which consists of a tier of secretory disc cells subtending a large non-cellular secretory cavity. During flowering, the capitate glands that appear on the newly formed plant parts take on a third form. Some of the glands are raised to a height of 150 to 500 micrometres when their stalks elongate. These capitate-stalked glands appear during flowering and form their densest cover on the female flower bracts [specialized leaves that cover the seeds]. They are also highly concentrated on the small leaves that accompany the flowers. The male flowers have some stalked glands, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female. (2)
Cannabinoids
Cannabinoids are a group of chemical compounds that occur naturally in the cannabis plant, first discovered in the 1940s. When consumed by humans, the chemicals bind to CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors in the brain and body, causing euphoria and other effects. The broader definition includes three general types: phytocannabinoids, which occur uniquely in the cannabis plant; endogenous cannabinoids, produced by the bodies of humans and other mammals, birds, fish, and reptiles; and synthetic cannabinoids, which are related compounds produced in laboratories. Cannabinoids present in the cannabis plant include THC, CBD, cannabinol (CBN), cannabichromene (CBC), cannabigerol (CBG), and tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV).
Inside the Trichome

THC and other cannabinoids are produced in only one place on the cannabis plant: inside the heads of the
capitate-stalked trichomes.

How it happens: Organelles produced by the plant called Vacuoles – which contain phenols, a chemical compound similar to alcohol [pictured at right in blue], and another type of organelle called plastids – containing hydrocarbons called terpenes [red], make their way up the trichome stalk [green] and combine inside the secretory cavity into a fibrous mat [yellow]. This concentrated mat is hit by UV-B light waves, causing the creation of cannabinoids. Since all of the psychoactive ingredients are produced inside the trichome, these tiny resin hairs have long been sought after by hash and oil makers and can be separated from the plant and harvested in a variety of ways (3).
Potency and Tricomes
Many media outlets and politicians say the ‘potency’ of today’s pot has increased dramatically in the last 30 years, claiming it contains anywhere from 10%-40% THC. Most are dubious claims, as it is quite obvious that a sample of herbal plant material does not consist of nearly half THC, but there is still much debate on the issue of potency classification. One thing is for sure; heavy trichome production does not necessarily mean higher potency, because the resins inside the trichome may or may not contain high levels of THC and other active ingredients. Some speculate that the percentage levels refer to the amount of THC in the oils produced inside the resin glands, but new studies show that cannabinoids other than THC also have distinctive effects on brain functions and cause correspondingly different effects on human cognition and psychiatric symptoms (4). This makes gauging the ‘potency’ or ‘strength’ of cannabis plants very difficult, as different cannabinoid level combinations may induce different types of highs. (For more information, see “Pot Potency” CC #34.)



 

dgk4life

Well-Known Member
stick pins in your stalks cut fan leaves boil roots as well and u will have the dankest shit ever.....:roll: oh wait back to reality
 

Brick Top

New Member
stick pins in your stalks cut fan leaves boil roots as well and u will have the dankest shit ever.....:roll: oh wait back to reality


There is validity to the 72-hours of darkness practice but what far to many people seem to miss or ignore in the findings of the study was how it said "SOME" strains had up to a 30% increase in levels of THC.
 
It said "some." Others may have had much more minor increases and some may not have had any increase at all.

It would largely depend on genetics, or at least I would expect it would, so unless someone knows the strain they are growing will not gain from a 72-hour period of darkness I say why not let the last 72-hours of the plants life be in darkness?

You may gain and if you do it may be an imperceptible amount and it might be a great deal and even if you do not gain, or not gain enough that your senses are capable of detecting the minor difference, you have not lost anything. It is not like you added 3 days more until you harvest, you still harvest when you would but the plants are just in darkness the last 3 days.
 
But there is no way I could ever believe that there would not be some net gain in at least most strains if not all strains. It might take scientific equipment to detect it but I have to believe there would be an increase in levels of THC.
 
By giving 72-hours of darkness you just cut out three light cycles, that is three cycles when THC would be broken down by light rays and replaced those hours of light with hours of darkness when growth and THC production are running at their most efficient.
 
It might, as I said, come down to genetics but also to some degree possibly even general plant condition. What it might all boil down to is how much stored energy a plant will have to run on for extended periods of darkness. If one strain or plant runs out of energy after 22-hours of darkness then it will not be producing any more THC so the next 50-hours would be a waste.
 
So maybe some strains can store up much larger amounts of energy and that might even be where general plant condition comes in.

A healthier fuller more lush plant would better be able to collect and store energy than a straggly sickly plant of the same strain. So possibly just having healthier fuller lusher plants may even play some part in how much THC gain someone might have.

By that point many nutrients stored in leaves have been in the process of being consumed by the plant/buds but until they are dried and dead they may still contain some stored energy for the buds to rely on. If so that would be one more argument for not trimming fan leaves.
 
Top