About Those Beliefs You're Ashamed of Holding..

Rootsgirl said:

I believe violence is the first resort of a weak mind... thump easy's post proves my point.

Click to expand...

i might have a week mind i cant hold true to my religion but im trien i cant fight with u guys only heinburg knows the reson its big tym i cant right it .... but i live at piece more now then ever i realy do i sit on the shiter n read the bible n every tym i do it answers my problem... i once ran into a dude that owd me money im a big guy i almost slaterd him at the hydro store he stole my lights n stuff i tried to pound him but the cameras n the guys at the hydro store were like thump thump please our racks our racks dont damage anything so i wated outside he didnt come out i finaly found the guy..... i prayed on it i prayed n i prayed the guy knocks on my door n pays me.... not all my money, he did.... i pray on alot of stuff but i always fall short... i had a women didnt believe in god native american she got me for money n got me for my heart, clients owed me money and larry webster regional champion boxer, owner of a boxing gym in phx, got me for my credit for material at lumber yard ex manufacturer of sips steel stud panels energy effiecent walls, he was my partner, and my tools n my bissness he left causing me to loose the licence, i owned home town builders he ran off with all my money i cant prove it.... but i gave up n broke down my week mind i pray to god Y have u left me to loose it all...... Y..... y if i dont sell drugs no more Y.... well im at piece i dont have the trophy girl i dont have the fancy trucks i dont have anything left i dont work endlessly till the night i dont get fucked as much n i feel at peice know i found a women i found piece i cant explain it but my reaction is an ass woopen to someone who fucks with my im still working on it im not violent at all i just trip out on people the human nature of a person is a trip to me... i often fight with this forum i fight with the joint in my hand or the beer or the crazzy sex i fight with myself.... i cant figure it out but that brings me peice im sorry i cant defend it because im not that type of fighter.... but i do feel a hole lot better some tyms n its so hard to do as it seas.. but im trying im gona have to give up the pantie room n this forum... soon so i enjoy u guys but im geting to that point.. DONT WORRY IM NOT GONA KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR..... because ill probley take your weed n smoke it.....

Padawanbater2 said:

When does it become appropriate to question someones belief?

Click to expand...

As soon as you realize you believe something.

@rosecity. I will answer your question about the flagellum in a later post.

@thump. I'm sorry to say I don't understand your posts. I have been trying but between the spelling and the grammar it's very difficult. I am not a grammar nazi or a snob but if you break enough rules of the English language, at some point you become unintelligible.

Here's what I get from your posts: You used to deal. You used to be quite violent. You reformed and went into the construction business. People fucked you over. You thumped some of them. Now you have found a good woman and peace of mind from reading the bible.

That's wonderful. So what?

I believe in G.G. Allin

my beliefs is that all living things are compostions of energy. and thats it. energy. our soul is our energy that leaves when e die.

thump easy said:

what im saying is you cant spell if u diched school to get high n not go to school..

Click to expand...

Well... I can't argue with that.

808toker said:

my beliefs is that all living things are compostions of energy. and thats it. energy. our soul is our energy that leaves when e die.

Click to expand...

You are saying our souls are quantifiable work potential? After all E=MC2, so which type of energy makes up our soul? How dose this energy remain perpetual?

Energy is a measurement. You seem to be saying nothing meaningful. At best, you are saying "Something inside of us I can't describe(soul) is made of of this thing I can't describe(energy) and that thing leaves our body when we die". In fact, you really aren't saying anything at all. When you can't even describe a belief then how can't you have justified it to yourself? When you hold a belief that you haven't even tried to understand, it is definitely a belief you should be ashamed of.

im gona wright a book one day n its gona have edditors.... hahaha it will be a good one believe me.... ul c....

Heisenberg said:

Watch the Nat Geo documentary to see a circle being made in 5 hours, and read again about anomaly hunting. That site is not meant to debunk, but to celebrate the art. Part of the art is to maintain a mysterious nature, and the mystery also is necessary to avoid being charged for damaging crops, however they do occasionally show plans for the patterns they plan for the season, and they certainly show many pics of circles they made themselves, including some for corporations and advertisers, as well as from other groups. They even show formations they've made in sand without the slightest hint of human tracks. This article shows that even though they prefer to remain mysterious, they are not trying to fool anyone, and in fact get upset when others do. This includes those who claim anomalies are found at the circle sites.

From a different article

Click to expand...

Heisenberg, I've looked all through that site. The only process pics of a crop circle creation is the one of the minivan. There are a bunch of dead links and still no sign of the National Geographic special. Would you post it?

I'm keeping an open mind, however the example that you've illustrated is falling short of facts that I can verify.

zvuv said:

As soon as you realize you believe something.

@rosecity. I will answer your question about the flagellum in a later post.

Click to expand...

zvuv, I'd love to hear how evolution created a mechanism that is composed of ~30 distinct parts that must all be in place for the thing to work.

Heisenberg said:

You are saying our souls are quantifiable work potential? After all E=MC2, so which type of energy makes up our soul? How dose this energy remain perpetual?

Energy is a measurement. You seem to be saying nothing meaningful. At best, you are saying "Something inside of us I can't describe(soul) is made of of this thing I can't describe(energy) and that thing leaves our body when we die". In fact, you really aren't saying anything at all. When you can't even describe a belief then how can't you have justified it to yourself? When you hold a belief that you haven't even tried to understand, it is definitely a belief you should be ashamed of.

Click to expand...

Ok, so if science can't quantify it, then it doesn't exist? Wasn't there a sound bite a while ago claiming that the body loses 21 grams at the moment of death?

Regardless if you believe in the existence of the soul or not, the physical body is animated by something that's not there when compared to something that is dead.

As for meaning, that in an of itself is entirely personal. We all make up our own meaning in the field of sensory stimulus. We also have no control over the meaning that another individual entity creates for itself, even if based on the same stimulus.

rosecitypapa said:

Heisenberg, I've looked all through that site. The only process pics of a crop circle creation is the one of the minivan. There are a bunch of dead links and still no sign of the National Geographic special. Would you post it?

I'm keeping an open mind, however the example that you've illustrated is falling short of facts that I can verify.

Click to expand...

[video=youtube;jMeRd5EdBwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMeRd5EdBwE[/video]

zvuv, I'd love to hear how evolution created a mechanism that is composed of ~30 distinct parts that must all be in place for the thing to work.

Click to expand...

Type two words in a google search and you will find many answers that show your premise is incorrect. Flagellum evolution comes up with many hits that give possible explanations but more importantly show that not all parts have to be in place for it to be functioning. The type III secretion system has only a few of the 40 or so proteins of the flagella but has a perfectly useful function.
Here's more

[video=youtube;SdwTwNPyR9w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdwTwNPyR9w[/video]

The fact that you have never found these explanations on your own makes me believe that you were quite satisfied with the answers of the anti-evolutionists and never even bothered to question whether their claims had any merit. Why would anyone that claims to be interested in truth do such a thing unless they had some underlying agenda?

mindphuk said:

[video=youtube;jMeRd5EdBwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMeRd5EdBwE[/video]

Click to expand...

This topic was covered in the thread already. Yes, this video was a hoax, but still no evidence of crop circle artists creating a complicated pattern overnight.

mindphuk said:

Type two words in a google search and you will find many answers that show your premise is incorrect. Flagellum evolution comes up with many hits that give possible explanations but more importantly show that not all parts have to be in place for it to be functioning. The type III secretion system has only a few of the 40 or so proteins of the flagella but has a perfectly useful function.
Here's more

[video=youtube;SdwTwNPyR9w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdwTwNPyR9w[/video]

The fact that you have never found these explanations on your own makes me believe that you were quite satisfied with the answers of the anti-evolutionists and never even bothered to question whether their claims had any merit. Why would anyone that claims to be interested in truth do such a thing unless they had some underlying agenda?

Click to expand...

Nope, no underlying agenda. just like debate and here to explore with an open mind. When I first learned of it, it was quite fascinating and there were no readily available counter explanations at the time. Thanks for your contribution although, imho, it would be better to keep it focused on content rather than an interpretation of my motivations and psyche.

This is a better description of the bacterial flagellum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacterial_flagellum#Bacterial

On that second vid, I checked out the poster's other vids. He definitely has an agenda. On transitional forms in the fossil record, there was this documentary that I haven't explored yet about the idea that we could be known as homo toxicus. Since WW II, over 100,000 new chemicals have been introduced into the environment that is fully embedded in the food chain.
http://www.homotoxicus.com/english/index.htm

On the whole, what really matters?

rosecitypapa said:

On that second vid, I checked out the poster's other vids. He definitely has an agenda.

Click to expand...

Yes, that agenda is called education and countering the ridiculous claims of anti-scientific fundamentalists.

I agree with mp, in that the BF has been widely covered, Ken Miller explains;
[youtube]m2alpk8PUd4[/youtube]

What creationists do is pick tiny things (using science) they think go contrary to the theory of evolution while they dismiss all the observations and data collected that supports it. The BT is too complicated for creationists to understand, just like evolution, so they don't accept it's explanation.

This is a very common thing for creationists or anti-evolutionists to bring up..

Nice vid, he explains it pretty well. Although his argument isn't the same as Behe's statement: if you take one component away, the whole doesn't work. Ken is explaining that if you take a subset away there is still subset that remains functional. Not quite the same thing because it is no longer a flagellum - but as he further explains each subset exists currently in the cell although with a completely different function.

I think it comes down to whether one believes consciousness derives from matter or if matter derives from consciousness. Each has a worldview that will gather data to support it's pov. For me it's not so much either/or as so much and/also. Either pov on it's own is flawed and incomplete.

It is only through transcending the mental construct of duality by being with paradox that the experience of unity is possible (at least for me).

btw, I'm mention e-prime again for the last several posts in this thread are illustrations of it or rather the non-use of it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime

Rose, no offense intended, but you seem to have fallen for all the text book fallacious arguments. Fire walking, crop circles, irreducible complexity... these are things used as examples in critical thinking classes to illustrate logical pitfalls.

The nat geo vid is about an hour, but here is a short summary vid. You'll have to catch the full length vid on tv I guess.

Here are some short podcasts which give critical thought to these subjects.

Irreducible complexity

Crop Circles and Crop Circles

Heisenberg said:

Rose, no offense intended, but you seem to have fallen for all the text book fallacious arguments. Fire walking, crop circles, irreducible complexity... these are things used as examples in critical thinking classes to illustrate logical pitfalls.

The nat geo vid is about an hour, but here is a short summary vid. You'll have to catch the full length vid on tv I guess.

Here are some short podcasts which give critical thought to these subjects.

Irreducible complexity

Crop Circles and Crop Circles

Click to expand...

No offense taken Heisenberg, however I must say I'm still waiting to see evidence of a crop circle created by 'crop circle artists' that are complex. All I see are links of descriptions, commentary, debate, all inferring that crop circle are simply made by humans because that is the 'only' logical explanation. Isn't this an application of critical thinking? Am I just to believe you because of the (my perceived) smug tone of your posts and links that affirm what you believe? Where is that irrefutable evidence that a complex geometrical crop circle is made by crop circle artists and hoaxers?

Still NO process shots beginning to end of one being made. From drawing board to overhead photo with all the steps in between. Oh wait, the mystery is part of the 'art',... well how convenient.

As a firewalker myself, sorry but I'm trusting my own experience over anything anybody else says about it. I've been burned by coals and not burned. I find the science explanation laughable. However that vid with the science guy walking over the coals was definitely an eye opener. Can I explain it? Nope. Will the powers of critical thought keep you from burning your feet as you try this at home? Let me know how it goes.


There are people who learn from books and there are people who learn from experiencing the world. Critical thinking has a lot to offer, however when not balanced by emotions and spiritual inspiration it imho is empty of providing any real meaning.

Let's move on to some other topics.

If you are really a critical thinker, I challenge you to build some of these machines:
http://www.amazon.com/Frontiers-Science-Strange-Machines-Build/dp/0689115628

Here's one, it's a psi wheel. I'm curious how you would deconstruct this:
Psi wheel under glass

They are pretty easy to make and play with, and I have no explanation on why it does what it does.

This is an attempt to debunk a psi wheel:
psi wheel static electricity?

I'd give an A for effort but it falls short. The movement is not the same.

lol rose

[youtube]9BIWhNh5V6Q[/youtube]

Derren Brown! I love this guy! He's got some great vids out of some street hypnosis that he does.

btw, gw that doesn't address the psi wheel under glass with the blow dryer. Apples are apples, oranges are oranges, psi wheel under glass with the participant's hands 3 ft away is not a psi wheel in open air with someone's hands right next to it.

Give it another debunk try there buddy!

rosecitypapa said:

Derren Brown! I love this guy! He's got some great vids out of some street hypnosis that he does.

btw, gw that doesn't address the psi wheel under glass with the blow dryer. Apples are apples, oranges are oranges, psi wheel under glass with the participant's hands 3 ft away is not a psi wheel in open air with someone's hands right next to it.

Give it another debunk try there buddy!

Click to expand...

a large part of derren browns career is based on showing the old "tricks" are just that "tricks" you say you love him but you think he's lying too?

i dont feel the need to debunk a youtube vid they are so easily faked defintative proof they are not....

if you feel its so real and your in touch with your TK side then why dont you repeat it and show us?

even better get the person who did that vid to repeat it in front of a group of people that will check his methods it will give you guys the tools to shut us skeptics up for ever

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

the moment someone can do that experiment in a controlled environment all your beliefs will be vindicated. untill then your just blowing smoke and embarrassing yourself by showing us "proof" from youtube

You have been duped. The author of the video is a skeptic. He created a video magic trick and you fell for it.

Some time after publicizing his videos, the author, “Mattman”, finally revealed:

“The two videos were both social experiments, and both illusions. I got the idea in my head to make a telekinesis video as a means to show that, despite what people may think, these videos are absolutely worthless as ‘evidence’ for the phenomenon known as telekinesis. The idea was to make the most convincing (amateur) psi wheel video on the internet, have people rally their support around it as a result, and then when the moment was right, to confess that this video was an illusion, and make the point that no matter how convincing these videos may seem, to always see things like this with a *healthy* level of skepticism, even if you are otherwise a believer in such things.”

http://forgetomori.com/2009/skepticism/psychic-powers-video-proof/