Afganistan Collapse

Fogdog said:

Do you really think the US was NOT going to take action against a country that killed thousands in an act of war against the US?

I don't know you but would you turn the other cheek? Give them more foreign aid? The invasion of Afghanistan was precipitated by the Taliban's own actions. Yeah, you could point out all the crap we've pulled over there in the past few decades to earn that attack. So, if you want to talk about imperialist US and how we've fucked up the region, I won't have a major argument. Still, though, they bombed and killed thousands. There were going to be consequences. We were there about 18 years too long, but I don't know how else to describe it other than to say that the Taliban send us an invitation to invade in the form of two passenger jets that were fully loaded with fuel.

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Afghanistan didn't attack America now did it? No. What nationality is Bin Laden by the way? How about the nationality of the majority of the pilots on 9-11? O They are Saudis...
Also the Taliban are not al-Qaida....

But yes America and its allies sure showed the Taliban whats what..o wait...


But either way you want to spin it Afghanistan did not ask America to invade it like you orig stated.

Lucky Luke said:

Afghanistan didn't attack America now did it? No. What nationality is Bin Laden by the way? How about the nationality of the majority of the pilots on 9-11? O They are Saudis...
Also the Taliban are not al-Qaida....

But yes America and its allies sure showed the Taliban whats what..o wait...

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It is STRANGE that we ended up invading AFGHANISTAN "just to get bin laden", yet to actually GET Bin laden they had to use black ops to discretely fly into Pakistan to kill him - then they brought him back & put his body on a ship, sailed it to sea and lost the body in the ocean... because the man who devised this plan was also the writer of Weekend At Bernies

Fogdog said:

You got my meaning right. I thought he was referring to my reference to us being there 18 years too long in a 20 year occupation.

The WTC was hit by two jets filled with jet fuel. There were other jets and attacks to be sure, not minimizing them. But those two jets that killed thousands in NYC were probably all the invitation we needed.

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4 jets all up. Piloted by mainly Saudis.

rabbita78 said:

It is STRANGE that we ended up attacking AFGHANISTAN just to "get bin laden", yet to actually GET Bin laden - they had to use black ops to discretely fly into Pakistan to kill him - then they brought him back - put him on a ship and then lost him in the ocean... because the man who devised this plan was also the writer of Weekend At Bernies

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Amazing a man in a cave on a kidney dialysis machine in Afghanistan who was not liked by the Taliban or his brothers in Saudi Arabia came to master mind such a plan as 9-11 using people from Saudi Arabia...
Dead men tell no tales. Saddam Hussein copped the same fate. Dead men tell no tales.

Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Hijackers_in_the_Sept...


The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with the militant Islamist group al-Qaeda. They hailed from four countries; fifteen of them ...
‎Marwan al-Shehhi · ‎Khalid al-Mihdhar · ‎Hani Hanjour · ‎Nawaf al-Hazmi
Alleged Saudi role in September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Alleged_Saudi_role_in...


Although 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens, the Saudi government had long had broad immunity from September 11 tragedy lawsuits in the United States, ...

Remember when Bush met with the Taliban and discussed the pipeline. The Taliban then decided it was not in their best interest?

"The terrorist acts of Sept. 11, though tragic, provided the Bush administration a legitimate reason to invade Afghanistan, oust the recalcitrant Taliban and, coincidentally, smooth the way for the pipeline.

To make things even smoother, the U.S. engineered the rise to power of two former Unocal employees: Hamid Karzai, the new interim president of Afghanistan, and Zalmay Khalizad, the Bush administration's Afghanistan envoy."

Interesting choices are they not? Union Oil Company of California and Unocal Corporation, known as Unocal was a company that was a major petroleum explorer and marketer in the late 19th century, through the 20th century, and into the early 21st century. It was headquartered in El Segundo, California, United States


Good read :

UncleBuck said:

pedophiles like you.

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Why that's quite a reversal.

First you admit you like me while at the same time admitting you're a pedophile.
I'm a pretty forgiving guy, but I'm gonna have to ponder your situation.

smokinrav said:

I, for one, would like to spend the trillion dollars a year the state department gets for overseas missions on some missions here at home.
Same for the US military. Another trillion dollars a year for domestic tranquility.

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Of course we agree spending stolen money on foreign adventures is a bad idea. It's a bad idea because threatening to / attacking people for not holding your ideas is wrong. Why would that be okay if it were done domestically ?

Fogdog said:

Do you really think the US was NOT going to take action against a country that killed thousands in an act of war against the US?

I don't know you but would you turn the other cheek? Give them more foreign aid? The invasion of Afghanistan was precipitated by the Taliban's own actions. Yeah, you could point out all the crap we've pulled over there in the past few decades to earn that attack. So, if you want to talk about imperialist US and how we've fucked up the region, I won't have a major argument. Still, though, they bombed and killed thousands. There were going to be consequences. We were there about 18 years too long, but I don't know how else to describe it other than to say that the Taliban send us an invitation to invade in the form of two passenger jets that were fully loaded with fuel.

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I’m thinking they could have targeted the people responsible without an actual occupation but again I’m sure there are back stories that are way beyond us mere mortals. I’m sure the generals know better ....... . That does not take away from the fact that there is going to be a price to be paid on the backs of the civilians of Afghanistan for the foreseeable future. It’s really amazing to me how the human race can be so fucking cruel to each other and always has been. My company just got bought out by a corporation and the last few weeks have been a very interesting and eye opening experience in how people respond when in survival mode and this is over a shitty job, not lives.

UncleBuck said:

california is where the world gets its salty nuts from. say "thank you" now.

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Yep, the sponge trees. They're getting a bad rap as sucking up too much water.
The whole agricultural industry out there is now front and center with the water wars.
The post I was quoting was meant to mean Canada.

Fogdog said:

Traumatizing to see thousands die. No joke. Etched in my memory. I remember starting breakfast, west coast time, was listening to National Public Radio, as I do most mornings and said "what did I just hear?" It was disorienting going to work after watching the video. Mundane work conversations interwoven with a real life horror show unfolding around us.

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My friend was operating a stamp press when one of his coworkers told him 8K New Yorkers had just been killed. (the numbers were off the charts wrong at the time) He thought they were joking and said, "that's a good start." If nothing else, it got southerners to care about Yankees for a little while.

doublejj said:

my father passed on 9-10 and i was at the airport trying to get a flight to Seattle to help my sister with funeral arrangements...my flight was cancelled......all flights were cancelled. 9-11 was a hell of a day for me.

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A local grower we called ET passed the same day. I always felt sorry for his wife and kids. Their grief was obscured by the national grief.

I was in a meeting with some product reps when we found out. That guy was stuck in Michigan because of the flights being down.

I remember a middle eastern lady came in later that morning and was kind of smug saying something along the lines of not knowing why everyone was so worked up.

I was polite and said that it was really the first time anything like that happened here so we are not used to terrorism, and to stay safe.

I still think that 9/11 is a direct line to the insanity we are seeing in the Republican party today. Between the collective PTSD, birth of the all day news cycle, and rise of internet conspiracies, it changed so much so fast.

Lucky Luke said:

Amazing a man in a cave on a kidney dialysis machine in Afghanistan who was not liked by the Taliban or his brothers in Saudi Arabia came to master mind such a plan as 9-11 using people from Saudi Arabia...
Dead men tell no tales. Saddam Hussein copped the same fate. Dead men tell no tales.

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I think you do not know enough of the details. Bin Ladin was very active helping the Afghans defeating the Russians. He used his dad's construction company to build tunnels, roads and places to hide out. The Saudi government kick him out of the country for being too radical (ironic with the interpretation of Islam they pushed). He gets tossed out of Sudan (I think) and after a few bombings ends up in Afghanistan as he was to hot to handle for the other countries he was in while fighting his holy war.

The Taliban let him stay because of the work he did helping to defeat the Russians. The US asked them to hand him over, the Taliban said go pound sand. The Taliban never attacked the US (Fogdog, you are a little mistaken). Pakistan lets him stay in the country, you know the rest.

Lucky Luke said:

Afghanistan didn't attack America now did it? No. What nationality is Bin Laden by the way? How about the nationality of the majority of the pilots on 9-11? O They are Saudis...
Also the Taliban are not al-Qaida....

But yes America and its allies sure showed the Taliban whats what..o wait...


But either way you want to spin it Afghanistan did not ask America to invade it like you orig stated.

Click to expand...

We certainly did give Saudi society a pass, didn't we? TBH, I don't know how much responsibility falls their way. Doesn't change the facts regarding where the attack originated and the Taliban government's role in it.

Afghanistan gave Al Qaeda safe harbor and bases from which to work. It's not as if anybody could claim they were a humanitarian organization. So, you don't like my metaphor, OK. I don't much care for them anyway. So, I'll just say it straight. The Taliban-led government in Afghanistan shared responsibility for the deaths of thousands on 9/11 and there is no way any government would just look the other way.

I ask you again, what would you have the US do at that moment. Not with hindsight but with the facts available at the time.

Britain, France to propose Kabul safe zone for people trying to flee Afghanistan

French President Emmanuel Macron said Saturday that France and Britain would propose a safe zone in Kabul, Afghanistan, that would help protect those who were trying to flee the country amid the chaos following the Taliban's takeover, Reuters reported.

"Our resolution proposal aims to define a safe zone in Kabul, under U.N. control, which would allow humanitarian operations to continue," Macron told French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche, according to Reuters.

An emergency United Nations meeting will convene Monday where the two countries plan to submit their resolution. U.N. ambassadors from the United States, Russia, China, France and Britain will attend the meeting led by U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, the wire service noted.

France and Britain have both ended their evacuation operations in Afghanistan — the last flight from Britain with departed on Saturday, according to Reuters.

Countries around the world have agreed to step up and assist Afghans who are desperately trying to flee amid new Taliban rule. Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, tweeted on Tuesday that the Group of 7 countries' leaders had discussed different ways to help Afghans.

"We @G7 leaders all agree that it is our moral duty to help the Afghan people & provide as much support as conditions allow. We discussed evacuations, immediate humanitarian aid, longer-term development aid and scenarios for refugees in need of protection," the European Commission president tweeted.

Abroad, countries like Uganda and the United Arab Emirates have agreed to temporarily host evacuees at the request of the United States.

printer said:

I think you do not know enough of the details. Bin Ladin was very active helping the Afghans defeating the Russians. He used his dad's construction company to build tunnels, roads and places to hide out. The Saudi government kick him out of the country for being too radical (ironic with the interpretation of Islam they pushed). He gets tossed out of Sudan (I think) and after a few bombings ends up in Afghanistan as he was to hot to handle for the other countries he was in while fighting his holy war.

The Taliban let him stay because of the work he did helping to defeat the Russians. The US asked them to hand him over, the Taliban said go pound sand. The Taliban never attacked the US (Fogdog, you are a little mistaken). Pakistan lets him stay in the country, you know the rest.

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Well summarised. I knew the majority of that but i dont write and summarise as well as most and it was a long time ago. Cheers for the write up. and yes Bin Laden is a hero to the Afghans for his work against the countries prev invaders.

Fogdog said:

We certainly did give Saudi society a pass, didn't we? TBH, I don't know how much responsibility falls their way. Doesn't change the facts regarding where the attack originated and the Taliban government's role in it.

Afghanistan gave Al Qaeda safe harbor and bases from which to work. It's not as if anybody could claim they were a humanitarian organization. So, you don't like my metaphor, OK. I don't much care for them anyway. So, I'll just say it straight. The Taliban-led government in Afghanistan shared responsibility for the deaths of thousands on 9/11 and there is no way any government would just look the other way.

I ask you again, what would you have the US do at that moment. Not with hindsight but with the facts available at the time.

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They did what Bush and the oil barons wanted. What should they of done? Perhaps the answer lies in Saudi Arabia and Bush. Lots of people are still not convinced bin Laden had anything to do with it, certinley people from every other country seems to be more questioning of that one simple thing than Americans seem to be- perhaps due to the what Americans were told over and over and the people of Afghanistan certainly didn't. But if it the death of one man was what Bush wanted then perhaps a more surgical approach. Amazing that all the Bin ladens in America were allowed to fly out of America when the FBI wanted to interview them and the skies were shut down at the time. Not sure there's any role the Taliban played in it, they asked for proof Bin laden was behind it...fair enough Q to ask.

This whole saga has done only 2 things and that's a stronger Taliban and a weak looking America and Coalition along with lots of dead and wounded.

Two dozen members of Osama bin Laden's family and 140 Saudis were urgently evacuated from the United States in the first days following the terrorist attacks