Ahh yes, if at first you don't succeed, try .. try again.

ViRedd

New Member
Hey, Med and Dank ... you guys should be loving Bush for this:





Bush ponders £10bn New Deal to create jobs in Iraq

Sarah Baxter, Washington

THE White House is expected to announce a reconstruction package for Iraq as part of a plan for a “surge” of up to 30,000 troops into Baghdad when President George W Bush unveils America’s new strategy next month.

NI_MPU('middle');Bush is being urged to give up to $10 billion (£5.1 billion) to Iraq as part of a “New Deal” that would create work for unemployed Iraqis, following the model of President Franklin D Roosevelt during the 1930s depression.

At the Pentagon, the joint chiefs of staff are insisting on reconstruction funds as part of a package of political and economic measures to accompany the armed forces. They fear the extra troops will be wasted and more lives lost if Bush relies purely on the military to pacify Iraq, according to sources close to General Peter Schoomaker, the army chief of staff.

Military commanders have come round to the idea that an increase of troops is likely to form the backbone of Bush’s new strategy on Iraq. “People are warming to the idea that some sort of surge is necessary,” said a military official.

Robert Gates, the defence secretary, held talks with Bush, Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, and Stephen Hadley, the national security adviser, at Camp David yesterday, where he reported back on his three-day tour of Iraq. He said the willingness of Iraqis to “step forward” had advanced significantly.

Newt Gingrich, the former Republican Speaker of the House and a member of the defence policy board advising the Pentagon, is calling for a cross between the New Deal and the post-second world war Marshall Plan that would “mop up every young Iraqi male who is unemployed”. He said it would be “as big a strategic step towards victory as whether you have more troops or fewer troops”.
Gingrich believes his position as a staunch conservative could help to sell the reconstruction package to sceptical Republicans who argue that Iraq has already cost too money. The Pentagon this month requested an extra $100 billion from Congress as an emergency supplement to the 2007 military budget, bringing the total to $663 billion.

Americans have already spent nearly $40 billion on economic aid for Iraq, much of which has been squandered. Bush’s proposals are likely to be more modest than the former speaker’s but he has been listening carefully to advice from generals such as Peter Chiarelli, who stepped down as head of the multinational forces in Iraq last week. He believes a US-funded, Iraqi-led job creation programme is essential to weaken the power of militias.

Bush is also thought to have been influenced by advice from retired General Jack Keane and Frederick Kagan, author of Choosing Victory, published by the American Enterprise Institute, a neoconservative think tank. The report, which advocates more troops, argues that “reconstruction is a vital part of stabilising and securing the Iraqi population”.
“The military commanders have been emphasising this heavily,” said Kagan. “It is tremendously important. We’re proposing that an economic team goes automatically into areas where the troops are sent in.”

The plan is to extend significantly Chiarelli’s innovative use of Sweat teams (responsible for sewage, water, electricity and trash) to back up military operations.
Local leaders will be asked what they need to improve the quality of life in their neighbourhoods and the unemployed will be put to work. According to Kagan, the scale of the package should be linked to the degree of co-operation over disbanding militias and providing intelligence about insurgents.

Stephen Biddle, a military expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, who recently advised Bush at the Oval Office, is backing plans for economic reconstruction but is sceptical about its chances of success. “If Sunni death squads are murdering your relatives and you’re afraid they will slaughter you if you compromise with the Americans, promising to rebuild the local health clinic won’t help,” he said
 

medicineman

New Member
Well that figures, we're already building infrastructure in Iraq while ours is deteriorating. Another brilliant plan by Bush. If this asshole doesn't go down in history as the worst president ever, some historians are getting paid off!
 

ViRedd

New Member
But wait! I thought you loved the New Deal. Why all of a sudden are you against "fairness" for your fellow man? Are you saying that the "rich bastard Americans" don't owe every man, woman and child a "fair deal?" Sheesh! ... Do you have flexable principles, or what??

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
But wait! I thought you loved the New Deal. Why all of a sudden are you against "fairness" for your fellow man? Are you saying that the "rich bastard Americans" don't owe every man, woman and child a "fair deal?" Sheesh! ... Do you have flexable principles, or what??

Vi
Not for Iraqis , not for illegals, not for the whole fricken world. let them make their countries great like we did, although ours is on a steep downward slide, we're definently headed for 3rd world status! BTW hows the housing mkt. in your area. I'm glad I'm not trying to sell right now!!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Forget the housing market, Med ... that's a red herring and nothing but another attempt on your part to obfuscate the issue at hand.

Not for Iraqis , not for illegals, not for the whole fricken world. let them make their countries great like we did ...

And, in your informed opinion, Med ... exactly HOW and WHY did this country become great?

Vi
 

MightyBuddha

Well-Known Member
Oh by the way guys... the housing market is picking up. For the third straight month new home sales have been on the rise.... guess we all don't have to go out and kill ourselves.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Well, Med isn't into all that positive stuff, MB. Med and his ilk lives and dies for negativism. We in sales, refer to this disease as "Stinkin' Thinkin." The cure involves a check up, from the neck up.

Vi

PS: Again, Med ... exactly HOW and WHY did this country become great?
 

medicineman

New Member
Well, Med isn't into all that positive stuff, MB. Med and his ilk lives and dies for negativism. We in sales, refer to this disease as "Stinkin' Thinkin." The cure involved a check up, from the neck up.

Vi

PS: Again, Med ... exactly HOW and WHY did this country become great?
And you claim the moral high ground, HA ha Ha ho ho! Seems like you know a lot about me from my posts, I may be puttin you on ~LOL~
 

ViRedd

New Member
Stop changing the subject, Med. Here's your statement again:

"Not for Iraqis , not for illegals, not for the whole fricken world. let them make their countries great like we did"

Here's my question again:

Again, Med ... exactly HOW and WHY did this country become great?

So, what's your answer ... or do you even have one?

Vi
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
This is an outstanding question Vi has posed to mr miserable (med)

Med tell us, how did this country achieve the greatness you refer to?

hint:.......it wasn't due to people or politicians like John Edwards!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Mr. Miserable? *lol* ... Hey, that just might catch on!

Again, Med ... in your opinion, how and why did the country become great?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Mr. Miserable? *lol* ... Hey, that just might catch on!

Again, Med ... in your opinion, how and why did the country become great?

Vi
You guys are relentless. I guess when you have a one track mind, thats all you can do is pick on someone. It doesn't bother me in the least. Keep preaching from your bully pulpit and The bull goes right by me, Demanding I produce a creation to your liking. If you don't know how this country got great, then me telling you won't change a thing. It might have something to do with all the freedoms we are allowed and the responsibility to take care of those less fortunate, although you might disagree with half of that statement, it is the truth! Now go off into your little world and pick on someone else. I ask again, are you(Vi) and (Wavels) sleeping together, it seems like you've got the same mindset, maybe you're really butt buddies,~LOL~
 

ViRedd

New Member
Hey, Mr. Miserable ...

It was YOU who said the country is great. All I want to know is how you think it got that way. If that's picking on you ... sorry for that.

Now again ... list the reasons the country is great, Med. You've made a good start:

"It might have something to do with all the freedoms we are allowed and the responsibility to take care of those less fortunate..."


By "freedoms" ... which freedoms are you refering to? Come on, Man ... let's hash this one out.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
By "freedoms" ... which freedoms are you refering to? Come on, Man ... let's hash this one out.
Well maybe if you can stop insulting one of my possesions, the one that I have made with my own two hands that is parked under a car cover in my garage, I could consider being civil to you. You have no Idea of how to make a car from an old relic into a car that will blow the doors off any new car made with a couple of exceptions, and they cost well into the 6 figures. so please if you want me to converse civily spare the car rant! Tell me what an ass I am and I can accept that, but the car thing is off limits. I should take you for a ride, you'd be crapping down your leg. now back to the freedom thing. I agree that freedom is the first and foremost tenet of greatness in trhe USA. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech etc. Although the Bush admin. has tried to and been marginally successful in trampling on them, we still have more than most other countries. Freedom to start a business and make a fortune, I'll agree on this, only the playing field is skewed. I tried three business ventures and was having mild success when the debt exceeded the income, (Undercapitalization) and I was very conservative in my spending. What I'm saying is the old addage, "It takes money to make money" is extremely true. Coming from my background (Brokeass) it was easier for me to work for someone else and save what I could. The "A" personalities may be able to overcome this monetary burden, but even for them, without help from some wealthy dude that sees a way to make money off them, even they don't succeed very often. so to sum it up: freedom is a good thing, and freedom to make money is good, but with wealth should come responsibility to bring up the standard for all! Thats my hope for this democracy, tell me I'm wrong, and show me why!
 

ViRedd

New Member
"so to sum it up: freedom is a good thing, and freedom to make money is good, but with wealth should come responsibility to bring up the standard for all! Thats my hope for this democracy, tell me I'm wrong, and show me why!"

So ... we've finally come to the crux of the matter, Med. I agree that those who have attained wealth SHOULD contribute to the less fortunate ... but ONLY on a voluntary basis. To confiscate their wealth by force in order to give it to another is immoral. Hmmm ... I think I've said this before in this forum a time or two. What you fail to understand is ... if you confiscate enough wealth to "even the playing field," you kill the incentive to continue to attain wealth. You kill the human spirit by crushing human nature. Delve into history, Med ... all that you espouse has been tried before with disasterous consequences.

Vi
 

AllMeatNoPotato

Well-Known Member
Vi, straight up question. Why are you so adamant with meds point of views? Is it hard to realize that his point of views (even though you might think they are shit) hold validity? And that it is ok for one's views to differ from the other persons, after all is this not what democracy is made of? A collective of different persons forming a whole. I watch you bash him for every thing, well not his advice on plants, atleast you two get along there. If all people thought like you, we would have a republic of Vi, hold on while I pop your ego. lol Med I applaud you for saying enough is enough and not having to back your claims after every breath.
 

medicineman

New Member
lol Med I applaud you for saying enough is enough and not having to back your claims after every breath.
__________________
Well, thank you very much. I was beginning to wonder if this was the VI and Wavels show. They get my blood up at times but I try and confront them with reason, sometimes that is very difficult as they don't really care about anyone but themselves. I get frustrated, as I can't believe the cold calculating way they think. But I keep trying to reach them. Maybe a miracle could occur, who knows!
 

AllMeatNoPotato

Well-Known Member
med, I know I am opening up something that I shouldn't but fuck it. I might know why there is a possibility that you cannot reach them. if you ask an insane person if they are insane, they are not going to say yes. Not saying that they are insane, well maybe some, but they do not see the error in their ways. ok I said my peace now I am going to go hide like the pussy I am lol.
 

medicineman

New Member
med, I know I am opening up something that I shouldn't but fuck it. I might know why there is a possibility that you cannot reach them. if you ask an insane person if they are insane, they are not going to say yes. Not saying that they are insane, well maybe some, but they do not see the error in their ways. ok I said my peace now I am going to go hide like the pussy I am lol.
Wait, wait, I need all the help I can get, The only one posting anything like me at all is Dankdude, and he is too polite to rile them, come on, join the fray, those two guys need to be spanked!
 

AllMeatNoPotato

Well-Known Member
I'll help where I find interest in the threads. AND A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT STEPS UP TO THE PLATE ALSO! bring on the social equality lol
 
Top