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(grabs a bag of popcorn , gets in bunker. LOL)
Al B. FAQt
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saturnlily
Well-Known Member
hey, thanks for the easy answer on that overwatering bit 2 of the 3 are better... the 3rd is growing and all but i just noticed that it has blackish coloring underneath the leaves.... now i know over watering doesnt do THAT... can you tell me what wrong with it? i hope i can fix it...
edux10
Well-Known Member
I know Im not Al but if you cut the top off of that then all those little side nodes will pop out and make new 'tops' that is how you see those big ol bushes with mad spears exploding out. You could do it one time then let it grow and then do it again and again. That is more of an outdoor thing to do, that is how you get them big ol trees like FFD has pics of. You should just do it once though. I would say do it at the top as you will have more branches to come out and make new tops but its up to you. It may look nicer to do it at the top too so it wont leave a little stick poking out. I donno. Its called FIMmind for 'Fuck I midded' clipping. I am no expert but I didn't see anyone else answering this question and it b pretty simple...
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
holy sheepshit, I take a day off of the forum, work in the op and make a 200km round trip to the hydro shop... and I've got about 50 messages to reply to... bear with me.
99.6% stuff that doesn't do anything! Sulfur is a well known and widely used antifungal- but calling it 'organic' is a stretch. Probably cheaper to buy some sulfur powder at the garden shop (about $5/500g) and mix up your own or better yet, use it in a sufur 'burner'- great for stopping powdery mildew or fungus- on leaves. However, you won't want to use it in the nutes or in the rootzone as S will seriously raise the pH. Use the H2O2 instead, 50% grade @ 1ml/L in your nutes, won't mess with the pH.
I bet you can come up with your own 99% water + 1% liquid soap solution for a lot less dough.
However, unless you soak every thrip in the op with soapy water, your problem will come back. The same insecticide I recommend for mites, avamectin aka abamectin, as found in the product 'Avid', is a much surer thing. Make use you vac like mad, get rid of any old leaf material ASAP, and spray the bejesus out of the op. Thrips become reistant to insecticides readily, so you'll have to use another insecticide if they come back.
The pH swing is probably pathogens. Using H2O2? If not, add 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L every 3-4 days. Will kill the pathogens that are swinging your pH around.
Your best bet is to take some clones off the vegging plants, get them to set root and then flower them to determine sex. If you're going to do that, you may as well SoG. SCRoG takes time vegging the plants to be flowered and fiddling about tying branches to the screen. Why bother? Once you have sexed mums, just start taking cuttings and flowering them as soon as they set root. Grow as many as 4 per sq ft.
Probably both, but rainy weather is probably the largest part of it.
Sulfur! Simple as.
99.6% stuff that doesn't do anything! Sulfur is a well known and widely used antifungal- but calling it 'organic' is a stretch. Probably cheaper to buy some sulfur powder at the garden shop (about $5/500g) and mix up your own or better yet, use it in a sufur 'burner'- great for stopping powdery mildew or fungus- on leaves. However, you won't want to use it in the nutes or in the rootzone as S will seriously raise the pH. Use the H2O2 instead, 50% grade @ 1ml/L in your nutes, won't mess with the pH. Potassium salts of fatty acids..? Oh man! That's just freakin' soap! Again, a huge proportion, 99%, is inert. But is it organic? Depends on how organic the animal fat used to make the soap is!
I bet you can come up with your own 99% water + 1% liquid soap solution for a lot less dough. However, unless you soak every thrip in the op with soapy water, your problem will come back. The same insecticide I recommend for mites, avamectin aka abamectin, as found in the product 'Avid', is a much surer thing. Make use you vac like mad, get rid of any old leaf material ASAP, and spray the bejesus out of the op. Thrips become reistant to insecticides readily, so you'll have to use another insecticide if they come back.
You can cut it at either point. This will make the plant bush out. This is a proper procedure for raising up mother plants so you get nice long stems to make cuttings from.
You're shooting way too low. You're looking for 5.8. 5.3-5.5 will lock out Mg and cause yellow leaves with black spots, slow growth, etc.
The pH swing is probably pathogens. Using H2O2? If not, add 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L every 3-4 days. Will kill the pathogens that are swinging your pH around.
Your water is fine. About the same as mine.
Not bloody likely! I suspect a pH meter that was lying to me.
Looks more purplish to me. What's the pH? Could be too low, locking out P.
saturnlily
Well-Known Member
if anything maybe to high... its at exactly 7 right now just checked, thing is the plants are still soaked so i cant give it anything that i know of to lower the ph even if i wanted to....
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
OK, let's see what the pH chart sez:
heh, at 7, you have P locked out from the other end (and lots of other things, too!) Usually when I see purpling from P def, pH has been shot too low.
Shift the pH of your nute soln with some pHDown to 5.8 in subsequent waterings. Should make the purpling go away in the new growth.
crazy-mental
Well-Known Member
ive had plants go like that "purple".
i had a strain called indigo that goes that colour.
or it could be ph or high or low temps?.
i wouldnt really worry, if your doing everything right it should grow itself out.
crazy-mental
Well-Known Member
looking it could be temps, what is your light sced and what lights and temps your getting day and night.
saturnlily
Well-Known Member
k thanks again 
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Genetically purple plants are raaaaaaaaare. The vast majority of purple buds come from sick or stressed plants.
Yep, I think so too. Correct the pH to 5.8, get the watering right and all should resolve.
Chumlie
Well-Known Member
No leaves or debre yet there all about 5" to 6" tall(is that good or bad for 3 weeks to a month?) But when you say spray everthing does that mean the top of the system and the clay pelets.
But what about hearing that thrips only go after soil plants?
Yet that plant was the only one that had signs of thrips. I haven't seen them near the system yet, plus I have a yellow sticky stake laying on top of the system.
Do you have any thoughts on the sicky pads from the local garden shop. Keep in mind please that there is no hydro shop within 200miles from me....I thought about opening my on shop.
Last ?, when you top of the res using regular water every other day what is you method to get the ph down. I want 5.8 I check the res its 6.7 by the next day so what do I want my topping water to be?
Thanks for the info fella!
But what about hearing that thrips only go after soil plants?
Yet that plant was the only one that had signs of thrips. I haven't seen them near the system yet, plus I have a yellow sticky stake laying on top of the system.
Do you have any thoughts on the sicky pads from the local garden shop. Keep in mind please that there is no hydro shop within 200miles from me....I thought about opening my on shop.
Last ?, when you top of the res using regular water every other day what is you method to get the ph down. I want 5.8 I check the res its 6.7 by the next day so what do I want my topping water to be?
Thanks for the info fella!
I'm not Al, but I know for sure that adult thribes hang out in the root zone. They are fast little fuckers and rather run then fly if they can, but they will fly off as well. In soil they put in sand on the top 2 inches. I used something with Spinosad in it in combination with blue sticky traps to monitor re-occurence. If it is a bad infestation you may need to treat the medium as well, if not, 2 folia applications 5 days apart got them in my situation. Good luck, I'm sure Al will chime in once he gets caught up
you can just monitor with the blue sticky traps, and tread once you know for sure. Good luck!
Al, I was wondering if I 'feel' you correctly on this: I'm running a chiller right now at about 70 degrees drain to waste. From what I'm reading here, correct me if I'm wrong, with the addition of h2o2 at your prescribed rate (35% @1.7ml every 3-4 days) I could turn that chiller off. Average temps with chiller off would be 74-76, but sometimes as high as 78/79. What do you think?
Hah, well proposing SOG just brings up more questions. I had originally planned on SOG before I was seduced by the lower plant requirement of SCRoG. I had planned to go with SCRoG because I wanted to stay under the Medical MJ limit for the state. However I don't have a problem with doing a couple of SoG in order to pick out the best genetics. I assume you suggest germing the entire batch of seeds, make all the fems mothers, and then choose the best mothers from their first harvest?
Questions
1) My Mother Chamber isn't finished yet, and is 18inW x 21inD x 36inH, it can be expanded to be 52 inches high. How many mothers would you expect me to be able to fit in there? Also, since it is a small little room, what lighting would you suggest?
2) I know it varies with strain, ph, etc. but at what age/height/node count would you recommend it being safe to clone for sexing?
3) With SOG, how much vertical room would I expect the plants to take. Or alternately, how close could I get a 400W hps in cooltube to my plants in a very well ventilated room. Is it the light intensity itself that burns them or just the heat? My concern is because I built the cabinet with scrog measurements in mind. It is 49 inches tall from top to bottom.
4) Since I just have one flowering area and am unable to do the 2 week perpetual, is there really an advantage to SOG over SCRoG other than not having to deal with the screen? The reason I ask is because if it takes the same flowering time regardless, then it really just becomes a yield vs yield decision once I have tried both. Unless there is an advantage that I am not seeing.
Thanks for all of the help, it is good to have someone step up and be there for the newbs.
Kludge
Well-Known Member
First sir I would like to thank you for all your amazing help, thanks!
Now on to business: I think your statement should be qualified. With a really small HID light the CFL's can be more like rocket assists on a C-130. They won't make the plane fly but they sure do help it take off.
I use a 400W HPS and a few CFL's targeted at lower growth and it has made a HUGE difference. Instead of all the growth at the top I have a nice full bush. (insert mom joke here)
Anyway thank you so much for all the help you've given everyone over the years. You are a true asset to these boards.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Spray all surfaces.
Bit silly. Thrips are leaf sap suckers, they don't care about your medium.
Happens.
Thrips are attracted to blue objects, get some blue sticky card traps.
Tapwater is usually about 7.5-8.5. Naturally, it will raise the pH of your 5.8 tank of sauce. Add tapwater to the nute tank, correct pH afterward. Don't correct pH of tapwater before adding it to the tank.
They're REALLY small and hard to spot! You may need a magnifier. You'll see the silvery patches on leaf tops first before you see any thrips. Getting rid of a single affected plant is a good idea but the thrips are probably on the others as well, you just haven't seen them yet.
You probably could shut off the chiller, but if you have it, use it.
If you have a strict plant count limit, SoG probably isn't for you. However, if you're growing only for your own use and can keep a secret, your chances of getting nicked are pretty low.
yep!
6-8 mums would fit in there. Do make it taller. A 250HPS will raise mums fine. If you don't need a lot of cuttings nor very often you could veg with fluoros. Downside is that you don't get stems as thick as HPS or MH will produce.
You can sex the plant after it has come to sexual maturity, about 6-8 weeks vegging from seed. When preflowers appear at the nodes, you can sex the plant.
3) With SOG, how much vertical room would I expect the plants to take.
SoG plants finish up at about 800mm-1m tall. My flowering area is 2100mm from floor to ceiling. Takes pretty much all that space for the flood system, plants, lights and clearance from lamp to leaf.
A 400 in a cooltube could be about 150mm min from the leaves. The plants cope pretty well with intensity, after all, once hardened, they can handle sunlight.
Would concern me too. 49" is 1249mm
All you need for perpetual is a flowering area which uses most of your floorspace, a small area for mums and a clonebox.
SCRoG requires plants are vegged for a week or so before flowering, Zero veg time for plants to be flowered in SoG, so it's 1-2 wks faster off the bat. Any method will need 8 wks to flower a plant.
Disagree, not a good analogy for this scenario. If a CFL was like a R/JATO bottle, it would produce an amt of light energy (for a brief period) which would be a significant proportion of (or more than) the HPS output- and they DON'T. Even a small HPS produces many, many times the intensity of even the very largest CFL. CFLs added to HPS is like a fart helping a hurricane flatten your town. Of course, in that analogy, we ARE discounting the notion that you may have had some bad Mexican food before the eye makes landfall...
Adding CFLs to HPS really is like adding a model airplane engine to your 747. Don't waste your time. If you are pruning for SoG, the plants are tailored to suit the light pattern from an overhead HPS and any side or lower fill lighting is simply extraneous.
Grow SoG pruned plants and you won't have any lower branches to dick around with. Small lower branches produce poorly, make buds that are hardly worth your time to manicure and don't do much other than block air circ around your plants.
You're welcome.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Nothing. You need proper pHDown sauce, usually a phosphoric acid solution- and very cheap, a few bucks for a litre. There's no good reason to use wonky substitutes, other than to avoid a trip to the shop... and once you encounter the problems caused by improper substitutes, you'll wish you'd just gone to the hydro shop.
ESPECIALLY- don't use vinegar or baking soda to adjust pH. Get the right stuff or don't bother. Substitutes will cause problems.
Please don't come to me later asking to help solve problems that have been caused by using bodgy substitutes, I'll just point you back to this comment.
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