Al B. FAQt

peanut81 said:

my fan leaves are dying buds look healthy as well as the leaves around the buds only 11 days in to 12 12 need some advice
this is my 1st grow
room 6x6x8
light 1000 watt hps
tray 6x4
res 50 gal
co2 1500 ppm
flora nova bloom 4-8-7
general hydroponic (gh)floranectar 0-0-1
gh florablend .5-1-1
gh kool bloom 0-10-10
gh floralicious plus 2-.8-.02
mad farmer nuts
started 12/12 on 9/9/08 floods 7 times during light period once 6 hrs into dark period
temp 77 ph at 5.8 nutes at 1300 ppm
also earth juice microblast foliar spray
thanks in advance for any help

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*sigh* Severe nute burn, probably fatal.

The melange of different fertilisers & bloom additives is fully unnecessary and is the direct cause of this destruction. MORE is NOT better. There's a bell curve to this- too little, just right and dead.

All you need is standard nutes @ 1400ppm, pathogen control and adjustment of pH to 5.8 (after mixing nutes, since most nutes contain pH buffers) as required.

I don't see any pathogen control in your list, should be applying H2O2 50% grade at 1ml/L applied every 3-4 days.

If you use bloom (P&K) additives, they get used for 1 week only, in wk 6, and with the regular nutes backed off to about 50% of usual EC, but only ONE additive.

Foliar feeding is not generally necessary unless there's root damage preventing nutrient uptake via the roots.

Never flood during lights off. Avoid flooding during the last 2h of lights on unless plants would otherwise wilt.

Hope you have mother plants in good nick so you can get a new batch of plants. I'm afraid these are most likely toast.

You can try leaching them with plain water until the runoff is the same ppm as the water you're leaching with, then no nutes for at least 7 days, but I'm not hopeful.

Sorry...

Al B. harvest time is fast approaching say 3 weeks and i will be making my swap to hydro.
depending on your advice i will be either do a 3 x 3 ebb & flow tray or since i work in the construction trade i have access to 6 inch drinking water grade pipe.
what are the drawbacks to using 6 inch pipe for ebb & flow beside the obvious cleaning issues?
my system will only be about 38 inches x 38 inches square so the holes should be close enough together to make cleaning easy enough.
i just dont know other potential drawbacks and you input is greatly appreciated

Phinxter said:

what are the drawbacks to using 6 inch pipe for ebb & flow beside the obvious cleaning issues?

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If you cut holes to drop pots in the pipes, consider any limitation on flood depth. Not a screaming worry with highly absorbent media but if you're using pellets, you'll want the ability to flood as much of the pellet mass as possible without wetting the RW cube if you used them in cloning.

Trays are nice because you can move plants around as it suits you. They're not that exxy, either. I pay $53 for 900x900mm trays, they last 2-3 years, sometimes longer, but they develop cracks eventually.

hey Al. I was just wondering if you knew if it ok to transplant plants that have been flowering for 1 week out of my hydro into pots with soil? Cheers

Hey Al, Thanks a bunch for this thread!

Would you say that there isnt a yield difference between different hydroponic methods including aero systems?Yield all about light and enviornment control yes?
Does dissolved oxygen = bigger buds? if yes enough that an experienced grower would see big difference from an ebb and flow to an aero set up?(flowering clones.) I guess a better question would the extra maintence of aero out weigh the ease and reliablility of ebb and flow's.

Ive read lost of ur posts and i know ur not a big supplement guy but what do you think about liquid karma?

If 2 plants of the same strain grown under same condtions, only 1 would be under a 600 and the other under 1000w would the yeild be noticabley different aswell as density. Or would the 1000 just be able to grow more plants.

H202 and canna are the only things u use in ur res?

Al B. a couple questions i know you have answered but i cant find them via search
1. what is the outside diameter of the 900mm x 900mm tray with stand as i am limited to 990mm x 990mm sq
2. what size pump do you use ... feel free to use metrics i can convert
3. how long is your pump cycle on. ie: how long to fill the tray.
4. i know you use canna nutes . is it "aqua" and something about "PK" in flowering do you still use this combo. "already answered the PK bit on the next page"
5. is aquarium grade silicone necessary for sealing the fittings to the tray or will any silicone do it ? i would assume aquarium silicone is just a fancy name for silicone ?

smithy said:

hey Al. I was just wondering if you knew if it ok to transplant plants that have been flowering for 1 week out of my hydro into pots with soil? Cheers

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Disturbing the rootmass in flowering sounds like a patently bad idea. It's rather likely you'll stunt the plant through transplant shock, caused by damage to the finer roots.

flipsidesw said:

Hey Al, Thanks a bunch for this thread!

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no prob.

Would you say that there isnt a yield difference between different hydroponic methods including aero systems?Yield all about light and enviornment control yes?

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You're quite right. They are all just fancy ways of watering the plant. The vast majority of the influence on yield is light, ventilation and proper nute strength.

However, the more O2 you can get to the roots, the more vigorous the plant will be, in degrees. Flood systems with plants in pots of pellets will yield as well as any other method, but a flood with pots of RW floc may not do quite as well due to reduced ability to get oxygenated nutes through the rootmass frequently.

Does dissolved oxygen = bigger buds?

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In a general sense, yes, but...

if yes enough that an experienced grower would see big difference from an ebb and flow to an aero set up?(flowering clones.)

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I would be hard pressed to discern between plants grown in an aero vs pots of pellets in a flood sys.

I guess a better question would the extra maintence of aero out weigh the ease and reliablility of ebb and flow's.

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There's very little difference between a flood with pots of pellets (or even Fytocell) and aero/dwc. Where flood systems always win is in failsafe reliability. One lost crop in a DWC due to a pwr failure negates any performance advantage it may have in theory.

Ive read lost of ur posts and i know ur not a big supplement guy but what do you think about liquid karma?

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What's in it?

If 2 plants of the same strain grown under same condtions, only 1 would be under a 600 and the other under 1000w would the yeild be noticabley different aswell as density. Or would the 1000 just be able to grow more plants.

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I've run 600s before and they yield fine density, the main difference being that 1000s will, as you said, do more plants and also will more consistently make dense buds all the way down the stalk. By no means to 600s make any popcorn, but when you're on the limits of foliar penetration, the 1000 has an advantage, particularly when in cooltubes, so lamp-leaf spacing can be minimised.

H202 and canna are the only things u use in ur res?

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That's the lot.

Botanicare Liquid Karma Metabolic Growth Stimulant Quart - Plantlighting Hydroponics

On the back of the bottle its says derived from: fermented yeast extract and kelp seaweed extract.ALSO CONTAINS .01%Humic acid derived from leonardite
.01%Aloe Vera extract
.01%Yucca extract

The only item in that list which could possibly be of benefit is the seaweed extract and that only for some micronutes, which should be present in your regular nutes anyway.

Yep, it's a magic sauce, containing mostly water but also significant amounts of profit, which remains with the retailer when the buyer leaves the shop.

How much are you getting off of one those plants on the flood tables in ur sog pics?dry weight i mean..

Do you use any UVB in ur op?

flipsidesw said:

How much are you getting off of one those plants on the flood tables in ur sog pics?dry weight i mean..

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1-1.25z per.

Do you use any UVB in ur op?

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Nope, but I do use some UVC.

The postulation that cannabis makes THC as a result of exposure to UV is unsubstantiable. It's more likely that the THC & resin are a defence against insects and browsing animals. Many plants make neurotoxins which dissuade animals from eating the plant. Boy did cannabis ever stuff it up, if the plan was to run us off.

U cant get 4 of those in a square foot can you?

To a certain degree can you put multiple strains in the same ppm. Say 3 different indicas that are 8wk flowering strains.

sup AL,
was wondering if i can achieve the SOG tec. with the smallest setup (probably answered this a million times),but i have 2 homebox S and wanted to basically keep small plants in there and have 1 for vegg (DWC SETUP) and 1 for flower (multispectrum cfl's with bubbleponics setup 12 pods)..sorry but im using cfl's and bubblponic setup (smell noob all over me )...for the moms im using 3 DWC buckets (3 DIFF. STRAINS)and will make cuts from them.i have a two 6 planter bubbleponics (12 pods,was only gonna grow maybe 10 at a time)..so basically what i was gonna do was take cuttings from mom every 2 weeks (until 10 pods in bubbleponics had clones in them) was gonna take 2 cuttings from mothers each (2X3=6) bcuz ill have 3 diff strains in DWC SETUP.so thats 6 cuttings in 1 bubbler..was gonna wait 2 more weeks and take another set of cuttings,take the same six cuttings but only use the best 4 sticking with using 10 (maybe using all 12 pods will be 2 crowded)...do u think i will create a small sog type setup with this or is this isnt just enough space for all that activity in a small grow tent??

hey iIm going to read again see if I can find it. If you say its there then it has to be there, and I gues I just read pass it.

hey al, got another question for ya, i have (2) 4x4 ebb and flow tables, 1 for weeks 1-4 and another for 4-8. Currently i use foxfarm nutes, but wanna change cause one part is organic and i cant use h202..with that said i would like to use the canna line, what should i use in each tank? thanks again for all your help.

flipsidesw said:

U cant get 4 of those in a square foot can you?

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Yep, in 140x140mm pots.

To a certain degree can you put multiple strains in the same ppm. Say 3 different indicas that are 8wk flowering strains.

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Yes, as long as these strains grow at similar rates. The problem with mixed strains in SoG is different heights. If they finish up at similar heights, no wucking furries, maaaate.

paperfetti said:

sup AL,
was wondering if i can achieve the SOG tec. with the smallest setup

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Sure, SoG is scaleable. However, whatever space you have is filled with as many pots as you can pack in.

do u think i will create a small sog type setup with this or is this isnt just enough space for all that activity in a small grow tent??

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Space isn't your problem, but the CFLs ARE a problem, and not because flowering with them marks you as a noob. They will not suit a SoG grow due to their poor foliar penetration. SoG is fully dependent on the high foliar penetration ability of HPS light. I would not attempt a SoG with fluoros.

bigbuddy said:

i would like to use the canna line, what should i use in each tank? thanks again for all your help.

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I use Canna Flores, 1400ppm @ 5.8 in all flowering tanks.

I'm still trying to work out the correct dosage for PK13-14, which is normally applied in wk6 for 1 week only, but unfortunately every time I use it, I get K toxicity and so have stopped using it for the time being.

I have inquired of Canna to get their word on what to do with the regular nute strength while using PK13-14, but they have not replied. I've inquired of them before and also been ignored- this does not make Al B a happy motherfuckin' camper.

Al B. Fuct said:

*sigh* Severe nute burn, probably fatal.

The melange of different fertilisers & bloom additives is fully unnecessary and is the direct cause of this destruction. MORE is NOT better. There's a bell curve to this- too little, just right and dead.

All you need is standard nutes @ 1400ppm, pathogen control and adjustment of pH to 5.8 (after mixing nutes, since most nutes contain pH buffers) as required.

I don't see any pathogen control in your list, should be applying H2O2 50% grade at 1ml/L applied every 3-4 days.

If you use bloom (P&K) additives, they get used for 1 week only, in wk 6, and with the regular nutes backed off to about 50% of usual EC, but only ONE additive.

Foliar feeding is not generally necessary unless there's root damage preventing nutrient uptake via the roots.

Never flood during lights off. Avoid flooding during the last 2h of lights on unless plants would otherwise wilt.

Hope you have mother plants in good nick so you can get a new batch of plants. I'm afraid these are most likely toast.

You can try leaching them with plain water until the runoff is the same ppm as the water you're leaching with, then no nutes for at least 7 days, but I'm not hopeful.

Sorry...

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thank you even if it is bad news i was at work last night when i got home i did what you said. i do have 3 mothers waiting was planning on making more clones to get ready for the next grow this week . what i did find out was i was 1300 ppm ec x 500 which is what my hydro store guy told me to do when i told him my leaves are yellowing on the bottom but thanks again for your help i will let you know how it goes.how many times do you recomend i flood every 12 hrs of light (well 10 not in the last 2 hrs)also does more co2 mean more nute need to be available for the faster growth

peanut81 said:

when i got home i did what you said.

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Hope it has some effect.

i do have 3 mothers waiting was planning on making more clones to get ready for the next grow this week .

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*phew* Good news.

what i did find out was i was 1300 ppm ec x 500

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Sorry, what's the 500?

.how many times do you recomend i flood every 12 hrs of light (well 10 not in the last 2 hrs)

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For small plants in pellets, you can flood 5x/lights-on, up to the flood level then shut off, of course with the flood level 1/2" below the RW blocks. Large, vigorous plants can be flooded to overflow then shut off, every 2h beginning at lights-on, avoiding watering in the last 2h as previously stated.

I see some clear tubing running around your pots- what's that for?

also does more co2 mean more nute need to be available for the faster growth

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When you have a proper CO2 system, that is to say one which measures gas concentration and meters out the gas accordingly to maintain 1500ppm as well as controls exhaust blowers and/or aircon units, you can allow temps to rise to 29C and can run the nutes a bit hotter (~1800ppm) as well. If you are using a makeshift CO2 system and can't be assured of the CO2 concentration, I would not bump up the temp or nute strength.

Be very careful with the advice you get from hydro shop clerks. Some have quite a bit on the ball but it's more likely that you will encounter a salesman who will tell you what you want to hear until you part with your cash. If someone really knows their way around a grow op, it's more likely they'll be running one rather than tending the counter at a shop.

did you miss me 2 pages back now??
you answered 1 of my questions already about the PK but still had a few others not answered ... your help is greatly appreciated

I got a mh cool tube just for flowering will that help small sog and kept the cfl for vegg...ANOTHER THING :whats your take on this CO2 BOOST stuff..i would love to try it,but would like some input..the things ive read from other users were on a 50/50 scale,some say trash some say ok for small grow