ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Nowhere did I say it would increase yields by 50% over equivalent wattage of HPS. I said I think one would see comparable or maybe slightly better yields, but with better frost.
All BS set aside CMH yields
- Thread starter Darth Vapour
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
All things being equal, three light sources adding up to a given PAR output will always yield more than just one of equivalent output. Strike one.
The relationship between increased irradiance and growth response is one of diminishing gains;
Strike two.
The spectrum of 860W CDM is balanced more for frost than vegetative production. You want leafy greens, or frost? Is that measured in mass? No. Strike three.
It's a decent lamp, it's certainly no miracle under glass.
I'm running exactly the same wattage over exactly the same size, shape and number of plants; in one six plant rack, 5400W of 860W CDM Allstart lamps (five of them, each driven at 1000W plus 80W for the ballast). In the other, 5400W of Cree CXB3590 based COB LED.
NOW we have a big difference in yield, because PARW is DOUBLED, and because the light is much better distributed across the canopy from 96 sources instead of only 5.
SoOLED
Well-Known Member
I think I'm following how your stacking your stats, but its not like that. three 315's are 945.
TBH, I really hate when people use the "equivalent" because it is hardly ever the case. I would use the word - alternative, to best describe the comparison.
a 600 is still a strong light, I wouldn't bet a 315 would be better, or out yield. but I know each light provides something the other doesn't, and the CMH seems to be a happy medium to large wattage by offering a real spectrum which is getting more important to hobby growers more and more.
if VH1 and MTV were lights, you could draw conclusions in comparison in a better perspective, they both offer the same type of programing, but are very different in what is broadcast. there is no equivalent, only alternative options in the channels.
who watches TV now anyways.....
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powerslide
Well-Known Member
disappointing he hasn't finished it yet!!
HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
After running the CMH for half a flower run, I can safely say that I'm glad I didn't go with the 630. Two separate 315's would do the trick better. They don't need the PPF at the center, I'd rather get the bleed effect and cover far more space for the extra foot to the sides I'd get with the 630.
Anyways, I'm sold on them. My next room is going to have 3 of these, with a rail of 3590 COB lighting along each side to thicken out a 4.5x12
Anyways, I'm sold on them. My next room is going to have 3 of these, with a rail of 3590 COB lighting along each side to thicken out a 4.5x12
HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
Something to remember, as well. Just because you're pushing more watts through something, doesn't mean that it's scaling in efficacy and efficiency like it would in it's designed range. Like your example of a 1500W equivalent - At a certain point, it's not a 1:1 return. I'm not certain of that point, but it exists.
b00n3r
Well-Known Member
Hey bud did you ever get to run these? I just ordered a few and was curious how the par / plant tests went
THANKS !!
SoOLED
Well-Known Member
I agree, but two(3) 630's would be nice too.
I only use the two(315) CMHs mixed with my LED's. I run the 3100k I figure the LEDS for the right, and chm's for the left. spec wise.
ive been looking around my network for a used 630, I kinda have an idea.
SoOLED
Well-Known Member
...then gets attacked by shark.,
THE KONASSURE
Well-Known Member
Have you tried larger induction tubes yet ? the main benefit over led is there`s less units needed but the down side is a 300-400w induction tube is a large mass of glass atleast 400mm x 400mm so I would guess 600 to 800w would take up almost a meter that`s a huge glass object to get broken, transporting and installing led units is normally easier as they can`t really smash
I would say led and induction both have a lower fire risk then any type of hid`s do, most people forget to factor that in when choosing their lights....
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Induction is interesting, but perhaps a dead end; it's not as efficient as COB LED, and the spectrum isn't better.
Agreed on the relative safety of HID lighting, they're cracking down on that in multi family dwellings here in Colorado.
I'm almost all COB LED now, the rest by the end of summer.
THE KONASSURE
Well-Known Member
I would say that induction does have it`s place
I mean on some levels
I scored a 300w 5000k induction lamp for £30 the other day
It can replace my 400/600w mh in my veg area, so I`d used at least 100w less and have less heat maybe even sling up 100w of 5000k led too and it`ll still be cooler in there
Some tubes and inducers can be got cheap
and I think induction is a great lamp for anyone going over from tube lights or cfls
I did fit a 70w cmh bulb inside the tube of a 200w 3000k induction lamp, for a 300w ish lamp it can light up a plant nice
but yes I would never pay £100 for a 100w induction lamp, but I do still think they have a place, they need their IR and UV`s tested to see if they can offer tube light fans something to get excited about
I have used 5000k induction tubes to finish up some plants, hoping to develop more amber trics, maybe 3000k would give me a bit more bud, but they get moved to that end for the last 1 to 2 weeks so I doubt there`s a big weight difference, I may finish a 2 clones one under 5000k induction and one under the red heavy leds I have set up and see if there`s a noticeable difference in taste, bud size or smell and buzz
Hmm I have some big bud clones and some trainwreck clones from plants I`m flowering now so I am some what tempted to start them in the middle and send one clone of each to finish up my red end and the others to finish up the blue end
Normally they just go under the reds to start flowering for 6 to 10 weeks and end up under the 5000k induction with about 100 to 150w of red strong led side lights
then they get put in the dark corner for a week or so sometimes cut right away depends what the flowers are like.
but yeah inductions may not be great for large scale flowering but they will soon have a place for the budget grower
Also they are very quiet no fans needed and less heat then any hids, plus due to the nature of induction a lot of electric meters can only get between 20% and %80 of the actually power an induction lamp is using
So there`s that to factor in if your dealing with power meter issues
but yeah induction can veg some nice plants 5000k or 3000k
and 3000k will flower some nice smelling frosty buddy plants, maybe even yield close to what a hps can once your used to them but with less heat
Yes leds are better w per g, but inductions have less parts the only problem with them is the tubes can get smashed.
I like using led lights but cooling them is a pain sometimes and making your own can be a lot of work or you have to pay loads if you want a whole bunch exactly the same
Where as throwing up 10 to 100 300w induction tubes sounds pretty easy, and if anything is going to fail it`s going to be a 300w ballast 4 wires to change it you don`t even need to remove the lamp from the grow
Fixing leds can be a real pain right ?
So yeah don`t count induction out there are times when it will yield you more in the right set up, it could make a grow op viable or affordable over fanless led units as we know they are pretty pricey and sometimes give off more heat then people expect
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Built and installed properly, a COB LED never needs fixed or replaced.
They're expensive up front, once- and they pay you back in reduced operating costs, efficiency, cooler running and better results from then on.
I've seen some friend's grows with induction and it didn't look like a game changer. Most tube fans here in the States use T5HO 54W 4' lights in a wide variety of color ranges from deep red through 27% UVB.
@RM3's setup is the best example of this approach I've seen, it's very effective for his needs.
That said, my array of CXB3590 3500K chips is absolutely the finest indoor horticultural lighting I've yet had the pleasure of working with.
They're expensive up front, once- and they pay you back in reduced operating costs, efficiency, cooler running and better results from then on.
I've seen some friend's grows with induction and it didn't look like a game changer. Most tube fans here in the States use T5HO 54W 4' lights in a wide variety of color ranges from deep red through 27% UVB.
@RM3's setup is the best example of this approach I've seen, it's very effective for his needs.
That said, my array of CXB3590 3500K chips is absolutely the finest indoor horticultural lighting I've yet had the pleasure of working with.
HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but it'd have to cover a 5x5 solid. I'm afraid the heat created by the extra bulb would start to nullify some of the benefits of the lamp, and you might lose that energy savings to heat and AC demand. Of course, if the output increased significantly, it'd make that a moot point.
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HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
Next time on "Are you afraid of the dank?"...
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§Leigh§
Member
Yeah u did, for the one who needs crayons because common sense and connecting the dots, seems to evade them, not being rude!
The cost to run one,yieild after per watt and then doing the other.."side comparison " convinced you of what? That the sky is still blue? Or that gram per watt increased or plants color popped( became more vibrant).
Broken sentences; incomplete conclusion...dont judge my style, when u werent able to pull the plank from ur eye. Not trying to be rude
§Leigh§
Member
If i had the capital i would have... then i would be comedic of something
coughphee.connoiseur
Well-Known Member
Hey sorry for the late response i meant to reply sooner but was waiting to post some results with photos instead of messages, still not there yet.Hey bud did you ever get to run these? I just ordered a few and was curious how the par / plant tests went
I ran the apogee par meter months back after receiving them because i was so excited. Between the 3k &4k 630 cmh vs a standard gavita 600/750 HPS bulb and a solis tek 1000watt 4k.
I did readings at 300,400,450,500 and maxed out at 600. The par is a little better with the solis tek... not by much the hps & cmh pretty much being the same. I didn't log anything then as i really wanted to see how much cooler and of course the CMH kickin ass in the department.
I should be back to Logging and blogging in a few weeks.
How is everything coming along for you.
