All Natural Organics. The Dons' Summaries + FAQ Thread. <2017-'18>

Dabber68

Well-Known Member
So I made some Banana peal tea, I've been freezing my banana peals for a few weeks. The left over banana mash I fed it to my worm bin.
First real organic stuff I've given them besides coffee, tea and fan leaves.


Taken from the Organic Feeding 101 thread
Banana Peel Tea.
Origin: Bananas. Cheap to make. eat the banana, use the peels.
Provides: Strong Potassium Boost. ideal for flowering.
Preparation: after selecting 4 bananas, and eating the insides, place the 4 peels into a pot, with 4 cups of water (1L). You can also add in 2 tablespoons of molasses. Bring to a boil. let boil for 5 minutes. remove the peels. let cool. place in jars for storage.
Application: mix this 1 part banana goop to 2 parts water. use every 2 weeks.

Also my Alfalfa Tea almost exploded in it's container. So remember to burp the container or leave the lid off.
View attachment 4055020
Alfalfa Tea. (can also be used during flowering)
Origin: your rabbit's food. this is ground up alfalfa, leaves, stems.
Provides: 2.5%n, 5%p, and 2%k.
Preparation: grabbing a nylon sock and filling with 1 part of the alfalfa, setting it into a bucket with 10 parts water. leave it for a week to create a strong tea.
Application: use every 2 weeks, diluted 1 part tea with 10 parts water.

Aquarium filter bags work great making teas
View attachment 4054996

15 days left to go :)
View attachment 4055021


Cheers
CCG
I boil peels 15 min and add molasses @ 1 tbs per gallon and use it full strength during veg it helps stem development from what I read. You can also dry them out and grind them into a powder and sprinkle in soil.
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Hey CCG,

feel free to post as much bud porn as you want on the main thread, the Dons' Organic Garden..

I was gonna keep this one as concise as possible since thats the issue with the other thread! haha.. takes too long to find info, you know?

Nice to have you around though, more Canadians the merrier, in my mind!
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
How much water would one use to start "cooking" 60 gallons of soil? I have used 10 gals of water so far and the soil isn't overly wet yet, not sure how wet it needs to be?

Thanks in advance.

ps, that's quite a snowstorm you have going on there CCG! Hope I can achieve results like that.
Just add as little as possible, so it clumps in your fist, but then falls apart as it lands!
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Oh awesome!!! Imagine the microbial inoculations from those natural food sources too, contributing to the diversification of your herds. Plus, plant matter grown from intact soils are sure to have the full spectrum of nutrients, which plants growing in agricultural dirt won't bring with them either :D

Why I asked regarding the fruit, I had this suspicion I've been adding too much fruitwise (that includes "veggies" like cucumber, pumpkin, though the brunt of it was tomatoes that didn't make it through the first frosts), and that that may have been contributing towards making my VC more bacterial than I would like. Whereby greens can be just as potent N suppliers too...so I could be overthinking it, and just adjusting the proportions of C-heavy and N-heavy may be all that needs doing :rolleyes:

Cheers!
Hey, Cal.
Yeah, I think these tomatoes are a bit acidic and are quick to go green, we just thew a bunch of them (free local waste) into one of the farms and it showed a lot of (what looked like) trichoderma within a few days. Tomatoes, best in a sauce or salsa (imo!) can be hard to avoid frost with tho, so what to do with the wasted ones hey..

I personally like to stay away from things that are acidic or have very acidic ashes, which are two different things, as you probably know.. In humans anyway, watermelon for example is very alkaline (in ash form) despite being so "sweet" in fruit form, so I dont mind a bit of that in there for a treat. They really seem to love it, probably cause it gives off a sweet juicy slurp (of bacteria) so quick.

Another example is lemon and lime which are actually alkaline too despite them being so tart and seemingly acidic... not that I use any in the farm; I think the citrus peels are best fermented and used in the pest management regime.

The fungals will drop the pH once established, which is fun to do, so I just try to keep it relatively neutral, with a good share of C heavy things like you said, to balance out the N.. Root balls are my fav bedding most likely for that exact reason.

Either way, I think this way is a lot better and a lot more alive than feeding them straight cardboard, paper, glue, and a side of poo. Gluten free, glue free, poo free, is my preferred way.. so no bread no paper. (Although if I had rabbits still, or chickens, I would have a worm farm dedicated to recycling those.. I just like to know the animals inputs and lifestyles (ie. health) before using anything of that sort..)

Keep making adjustments and sharing the good stuff with the people, thats whats up!

Edit:

.. I should add that I really like to use bananas in my worm mix, or have in the past, that is. I am now getting away from all GMO and therefore bananas are getting cut out of the life a bit. But my past love for them, peanut butter and banana sandwiches especially, which I could eat a few of those this week, even still, led me to a lot of their incorporation, but after selling real banana trees this past year to all our friends down in the states, we realize that all bananas should have seeds and should be grown at home for best quality. So now thats the goal, pink banana trees in pots! In the greenhouse all summer and then into the house for the winter, but many of our people are growing them outside now all year round, lucky them!

@canadain Closet Grower, @Dabber68 let me know how that tea works out, if you notice anything before your eyes!
 
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calliandra

Well-Known Member
Hey, Cal.
Yeah, I think these tomatoes are a bit acidic and are quick to go green, we just thew a bunch of them (free local waste) into one of the farms and it showed a lot of (what looked like) trichoderma within a few days. Tomatoes, best in a sauce or salsa (imo!) can be hard to avoid frost with tho, so what to do with the wasted ones hey..

I personally like to stay away from things that are acidic or have very acidic ashes, which are two different things, as you probably know.. In humans anyway, watermelon for example is very alkaline (in ash form) despite being so "sweet" in fruit form, so I dont mind a bit of that in there for a treat. They really seem to love it, probably cause it gives off a sweet juicy slurp (of bacteria) so quick.

Another example is lemon and lime which are actually alkaline too despite them being so tart and seemingly acidic... not that I use any in the farm; I think the citrus peels are best fermented and used in the pest management regime.

The fungals will drop the pH once established, which is fun to do, so I just try to keep it relatively neutral, with a good share of C heavy things like you said, to balance out the N.. Root balls are my fav bedding most likely for that exact reason.

Either way, I think this way is a lot better and a lot more alive than feeding them straight cardboard, paper, glue, and a side of poo. Gluten free, glue free, poo free, is my preferred way.. so no bread no paper. (Although if I had rabbits still, or chickens, I would have a worm farm dedicated to recycling those.. I just like to know the animals inputs and lifestyles (ie. health) before using anything of that sort..)

Keep making adjustments and sharing the good stuff with the people, thats whats up!

Edit:

.. I should add that I really like to use bananas in my worm mix, or have in the past, that is. I am now getting away from all GMO and therefore bananas are getting cut out of the life a bit. But my past love for them, peanut butter and banana sandwiches especially, which I could eat a few of those this week, even still, led me to a lot of their incorporation, but after selling real banana trees this past year to all our friends down in the states, we realize that all bananas should have seeds and should be grown at home for best quality. So now thats the goal, pink banana trees in pots! In the greenhouse all summer and then into the house for the winter, but many of our people are growing them outside now all year round, lucky them!

@canadain Closet Grower, @Dabber68 let me know how that tea works out, if you notice anything before your eyes!
Thanks much for expanding on this, Don Tesla!
Lots of food for thought right there haha
cheers! :bigjoint:
 

Dabber68

Well-Known Member
Hey, Cal.
Yeah, I think these tomatoes are a bit acidic and are quick to go green, we just thew a bunch of them (free local waste) into one of the farms and it showed a lot of (what looked like) trichoderma within a few days. Tomatoes, best in a sauce or salsa (imo!) can be hard to avoid frost with tho, so what to do with the wasted ones hey..

I personally like to stay away from things that are acidic or have very acidic ashes, which are two different things, as you probably know.. In humans anyway, watermelon for example is very alkaline (in ash form) despite being so "sweet" in fruit form, so I dont mind a bit of that in there for a treat. They really seem to love it, probably cause it gives off a sweet juicy slurp (of bacteria) so quick.

Another example is lemon and lime which are actually alkaline too despite them being so tart and seemingly acidic... not that I use any in the farm; I think the citrus peels are best fermented and used in the pest management regime.

The fungals will drop the pH once established, which is fun to do, so I just try to keep it relatively neutral, with a good share of C heavy things like you said, to balance out the N.. Root balls are my fav bedding most likely for that exact reason.

Either way, I think this way is a lot better and a lot more alive than feeding them straight cardboard, paper, glue, and a side of poo. Gluten free, glue free, poo free, is my preferred way.. so no bread no paper. (Although if I had rabbits still, or chickens, I would have a worm farm dedicated to recycling those.. I just like to know the animals inputs and lifestyles (ie. health) before using anything of that sort..)

Keep making adjustments and sharing the good stuff with the people, thats whats up!

Edit:

.. I should add that I really like to use bananas in my worm mix, or have in the past, that is. I am now getting away from all GMO and therefore bananas are getting cut out of the life a bit. But my past love for them, peanut butter and banana sandwiches especially, which I could eat a few of those this week, even still, led me to a lot of their incorporation, but after selling real banana trees this past year to all our friends down in the states, we realize that all bananas should have seeds and should be grown at home for best quality. So now thats the goal, pink banana trees in pots! In the greenhouse all summer and then into the house for the winter, but many of our people are growing them outside now all year round, lucky them!

@canadain Closet Grower, @Dabber68 let me know how that tea works out, if you notice anything before your eyes!
I will be using the tea ( banana peels, molasses and sometimes I'll throw a couple egg shells ) I really think it helped my plants as I have strong stems with some heavy weight and no need yet for support. By my next grow I want to be able to go totally organic just learning about all the concoctions that can be made. @ Don Tesla do you know of any other quick brew teas that can be used during veg growth?
 

Canadain Closet Gardener

Well-Known Member
Question on my worm bin.
My house hold produces around 1kg/2.2 pounds of coffee grounds a week and 50 tea bags. Can I keep adding that to my bin with the idea eventually the worms will eat it all once they are established?

Found a neat time lapse video
Cheers
CCG
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Fellow herbalists,

My buddy just reminded me...
  1. There can fit 500,000 bacteria in the size of the period at the end of this sentence, alone.
  2. And just one single, healthy, mature aerobic bacteria can reproduce itself into 300 million bacteria over the course of a single day in optimum conditions. (thats: 300,000,000)
2014-2015
So my favourite tea, in the past, has been the very simple (kis principle) and very powerful.. fresh vermicompost with a touch of blackstrap unsulphured organic molasses.. thats it. Kinda boring I know eh but.. its based on Microbe Mans research, do read it. We still used blood and bone meal back then but our tea recipe was clean:

Recipe was, per litre of aerated water > tea:
  • 1 tsp, or 5ml, (0.05%)
  • 1.5 Tbsp or 22.5ml of VC (2.38%)
Starting with high quality fresh and thriving castings, the numbers would be through the roof after 24 hours of good brewing. i.e. good temps in mid 70's with strong o2 levels. Absolutely astonishing numbers.

2016
I then found molasses to be an ingredient I didn't enjoy working with at all, among others, and went on to create my own little sugar blend, succinat (sp?), raw organic coconut sugar, plus my secret and most fav sugar etc. More minerals the better when shopping.

2017
And now, .. we don't really dig teas.. in an ideal situation.. we prefer doing SIP or no til, using bio-support like activated biochar, much bigger pots, living humus, little more pinpointed recipes, with cleaner ingredients .. the kicker being having pre-amended pre-mellowed/fermented/cooked top dresses ready to go whenever we see a need..

Side note
.. regarding pot sizes, we see 15gal being the organics-minimum, 20 to 25+ being much more ideal, indoors, and 100 - 800+ gal being the ideal, outdoors.

So this, combined with the above, creates an environment where they can continue to proliferate naturally for much more than just the veg cycle with ease.

We then just suggest having amended soil be your first goal (about a 1 month goal) but having amended living compost being the ideal end-game goal (about a 1 to 2 year goal, up to 3 if leaf composting thermophilically)

Teas do still have a place, tho, imo... that is, if you need them, say in creating biofilms for pest management, or as a part of a several-spray IPM regime, or in reinoculating when using overly small pots cause they keep drying out (usually one gal, to 10 gal). The smaller you go, the more you may want to tea em up.

Speaking of which:
....when using store bought castings I would recommend a weekly tea with a weaker foliar, to help supplement the lack of fresh and present fulvics and humics .. something you won't ever need if growing your own vermicompost from scratch, which is awesome.

And foliars still have their place too imo. I know DP didn't care for them but for me I love to use them for timely expressions and signal triggering, but have basically got it down to just spraying daily or so for the first 1.5 weeks of flip, nothing more.
Unless trying to put in extra work say for a cup, reacting to a mistake, outbreak, or underestimation.

So in summary, now my goal is actually just one tea max per life cycle, and about 7-10 foliars pre planned .. for those first 10 days of flower or so. Other than that, just water only and just one topdressing.

Of course, the other major weapons in my arsenal:
  • ultra fine endo myco with multiple types of purley-endo spores, and
  • black soldier fly frass, one of my favs, which is LAODED with fungals and chitin.
  • labs,
  • coco
  • & aloe,
    basically cause the results you see pics of ^^

For now, I try not to mess with any other ferments or teas, nor SST's really.
Except maybe grokashi/red wheat bran a little bit, that I'm gonna do big in 2018 and see if its worth all the hype

& as we move forward, we're going to continue to try find the most effective doses, with the most impressive results. Along with the most effective base recipes. Testing 7 separate and slightly different combos at the moment, so..

Should be fun, more to come!
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Question on my worm bin.
My house hold produces around 1kg/2.2 pounds of coffee grounds a week and 50 tea bags. Can I keep adding that to my bin with the idea eventually the worms will eat it all once they are established?

Found a neat time lapse video
Cheers
CCG
I would probably save tea bags seperate, toss em in an outdoor compost, but use the coffee grounds with the worms, just always being a bit careful to keep it balanced with some alkaline inputs as the grounds are acidic, about 5.5ph already.

I love that video by the way, good to see it reposted. Amazing are the whomies.

EDIT
its brewed coffee that has a ph of 5.5 whereas the grounds are a 6.5, so not so bad actually. Good to know cause I have 10 gallons of grounds here doing nothing, aha. Thanks!
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Aye, I cannot agree more!
Developing a really good compost is the holy grail for me - a really diverse, aerobic, highly fungal one!
From there, life will be so much easier! :D
You nailed it there, Calli! Bigtime.

It can take a good couple years to make a thermophilic fungal dom compost the all natural way but holy shit, once you have it, your yeilds boom, the glandular and terp expression booms, the bio diversity booms, and growing overall (and therefore life) gets 10x easier, just like you say.

Of course, there are ways to speed track it, true, like wrapping in black plastic, amending before hand, mixing the greens with the carbons, but we still prefer the all natural way.. that way you have much better control of your ratios of VC to TC (vermicompost to thermophilic compost) as well as more guage/ control over the used volume of inputs like meals and minerals.

Perhaps one day we will make living soil by throwing everything in at once, and layering all the different things, but for now, I would rather have shredded leaves composting "here", worm compost crawling "there", and meals separate from minerals, so I can mix them once each input is 'cleared' for action. And also so I can make different recipes for different purposes / sizes / crop types / applications.

I'm sure you will have some amazing fungal dom compost before you know it!!
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
You nailed it there, Calli! Bigtime.

It can take a good couple years to make a thermophilic fungal dom compost the all natural way but holy shit, once you have it, your yeilds boom, the glandular and terp expression booms, the bio diversity booms, and growing overall (and therefore life) gets 10x easier, just like you say.

Of course, there are ways to speed track it, true, like wrapping in black plastic, amending before hand, mixing the greens with the carbons, but we still prefer the all natural way.. that way you have much better control of your ratios of VC to TC (vermicompost to thermophilic compost) as well as more guage/ control over the used volume of inputs like meals and minerals.

Perhaps one day we will make living soil by throwing everything in at once, and layering all the different things, but for now, I would rather have shredded leaves composting "here", worm compost crawling "there", and meals separate from minerals, so I can mix them once each input is 'cleared' for action. And also so I can make different recipes for different purposes / sizes / crop types / applications.

I'm sure you will have some amazing fungal dom compost before you know it!!
It's all about patience!
Very hard lesson for me!!! haha
Cheers! :bigjoint:
 

thccbdhealth

Well-Known Member
Hey Don,

Any issues with using Epsom salt in organic growing? I think it was a part of Subcool's recipe, but I don't see many people using it these days.
Perfect guy to be asking.
He's just away from his desk at the moment.

Ohh Yah Jah
while you have his attention regarding soil amendments and recipes, talk to him about genetics aswell...real solid
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Thanks for holding the fort down, brother!

What a crazy week having fun with fam from all over the country..

@Bubba's girl
I use Epsom salts twice every grow, both times, in the first ten days of flower, 14 max, and both times as a foliar, diluting 1/8 tsp per gallon only... the effects, when well timed, cause immense increases in vitamin and mineral absorbtion/production and can create really terpy effects.. to the point each leaf is so greasy its not even sticky, your fingers can slide off...

It wont do it to all genetics, but good genetics it will.. beyond this time point you can cause the reverse, for it to get all dry, and salty feeling, so be sure to time it right at the flip.

I also don't put it in the soil anymore!!
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Happy new year Don I'm ready to learn! Where should I start?
Happy New Year FNL, right on!

  1. First, have you got a worm farm by chance started yet, cause fresh castings are so powerful its not funny, and store bought suck so bad its sad!
  2. Also, indoor grow I assume?
  3. Lets start with your grow space size including height allowance. That will help determine a soil volume we're after.
  4. And are you growing shorter flowering indicas or longer flowering sativa.. 8 wks vs 14-16, That will determine a couple things too.
  5. And are you growing for medical reasons, or for anyone with a compromised immune system or vegan lifestyle..that would determine whether you should go probiotic and avoid low grade factory farm animal products and their untasty additives. Which I like to avoid as is, overall, minus Frass, castings, and a bit of fish bone meal or crab shell meal, which I also aim to phase out but still use here and there.
If so, to #5, for sure I would suggest probiotic living soil. Even if not, I would still suggest probiotic living soil, lol... if you want to learn the best way thats the ticket.

Ps.
My first round was a water only grow in 1 gallon pots, but as you will quickly learn, the bigger the better in organics, so getting some 15 or 20 or even 25 gallon pots would be very wise. They only need to be a foot tall, but the extra size will help all the micro life stay alive and that will keep nutrients cycling if a good soil food web is established.
 
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