An interesting concept for inline cooling

IAm5toned said:

i saw the heat exchanger lazypothead was talking about. its pretty intriguing, but the trade off is you have to have a constant supply of RUNNING water to make it work... so your either flushing water down the drain straight from the tap or your using electricity to pump the water... and then theres the problem of cooling the water once its out of the exchanger and back in the resevoir... the resevoir would have to be huge for room temp to be able to cool the hot water coming from the exchange unit fast enough to keep it cool for 12/12 or 18/6 operation... im sure theres some dwc and ebb and flow guys out there that understand what im talking about

i think the problem to overcome with this design is how to remove heat from a closed loop system without consuming watts in the process. i think a fridge would be a great gro cab, the co2 potential would be awesome with a hermitaclly sealed door... but its going to be hard to get HID lighting inside the fridge without using a cool tube. and theres also the problem of condensation, your going to be watering the plant obviously, and the plant is going to breath and release water vapor ( i forget the botanical term forgive me im stoned).. so theres going to have to be a way to exhaust the system periodically... which means lots of controls and automation. i think the whole idea is possible, but going to be very challenging engineering wise

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Removing heat from a closed loop or a room is going to take wattage..I don't think anyone's going to argue that. It would become a personal preference at some point wouldn't it?
If someone wants to use 400 watts to cool a 400 watt light, it may not be the best option (as this inline chiller will undoubtedly use way less, and is likely the ideal)..

but for sake of arguement, do you think that if he ran the same set up with a box built to contain the air conditioner (vented outside the box) into a closed loop, it would still have the same issue if it was the appropriate size to handle the load? like a 10,000 BTU unit?
I know it doens't make sence economically to do so, but I'm curious as to whether you think that would work?

I'm stuck on the fact that ambient air temps work alone.. if you cool the temp of the air at all.. isn't it better theoretically than not? Same as running an air conditioner in an adjacent room and pulling air for your cool tube from that room and vent outside.. seems like a good option to me as well.. (again, I'm talking in theory, as I'm thinking the inline cooler he's showing is pretty smart and likely would be best for the application).

And it's "transpiration"

ah.. transpiration

hey this thread goes into the pros and cons of cooling lights pretty well:
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/73464-water-cooled-lights-liquid-lumens-3.html

look at post # 26.. the guy that used the fan and the radiator to cool the water... that might work PERFECTLY for the inline cooler.. no chiller required or big resivoir.. just a junk yard radiator and a 30w 8$ walmart fan. and if you had the radiator ON TOP or ABOVE the in line heat exchanger... im thinking you wouldnt even have to have a pump on the exchanger at all! natural convection would do all the work for you, hot water rises to the radiator to sink back down to the exchanger... think the trick would be in the size of the tubing... hmmm

cowell said:

Removing heat from a closed loop or a room is going to take wattage..I don't think anyone's going to argue that. It would become a personal preference at some point wouldn't it?
If someone wants to use 400 watts to cool a 400 watt light, it may not be the best option (as this inline chiller will undoubtedly use way less, and is likely the ideal)..

but for sake of arguement, do you think that if he ran the same set up with a box built to contain the air conditioner (vented outside the box) into a closed loop, it would still have the same issue if it was the appropriate size to handle the load? like a 10,000 BTU unit?
I know it doens't make sence economically to do so, but I'm curious as to whether you think that would work?

I'm stuck on the fact that ambient air temps work alone.. if you cool the temp of the air at all.. isn't it better theoretically than not? Same as running an air conditioner in an adjacent room and pulling air for your cool tube from that room and vent outside.. seems like a good option to me as well.. (again, I'm talking in theory, as I'm thinking the inline cooler he's showing is pretty smart and likely would be best for the application).

And it's "transpiration"

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oh yeah, if the a/c unit is vented outside the loop, theres no doubt it will be very effective. lol i coulda swore we were talking about using hps in a fridge tho.. where'd the a/c get thrown in the mix? mebbe i shouldnt packed this bowl before i got on this thread

IAm5toned said:

oh yeah, if the a/c unit is vented outside the loop, theres no doubt it will be very effective. lol i coulda swore we were talking about using hps in a fridge tho.. where'd the a/c get thrown in the mix? mebbe i shouldnt packed this bowl before i got on this thread

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LOL.. post 6 was I think the original idea for a small air conditioner.. You weren't the only one I thinking that the fridge and the air conditioner would be in the tent, someone else made that comment too. That wasn't my thought.. I thought running the fridge/ air conditioner outside the room but with the shortest amount of ducting for the series as possible.

I will check out the rad cooler.. sounds like an idea as well.. hey where's the OP?

cool about the rad idea for the inline fan to cool the system... would you think running coolant as opposed to water might help increase it's ability to take heat out of the system? and I agree, you wouldn't need the res, or chiller if it was effective and set up over the lights.. good idea as well.

cowell said:

cool about the rad idea for the inline fan to cool the system... would you think running coolant as opposed to water might help increase it's ability to take heat out of the system? and I agree, you wouldn't need the res, or chiller if it was effective and set up over the lights.. good idea as well.

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i would think that using a coolant would would add to the viscosity of the liquid inside the exchanger, and make it move slower through the system.. slow the rate of flow, which would in turn reduce the efficiency of the exchanger unit altogether. id go with pure distillied watter with a few drops of iodine to kill any algae/bacteria present in the system would probably work out best... and if it leaks that would suck... smelly anitfreeze in the house

smelly buds in the house.. smelly anti-freeze in the house..

I don't know if we jacked this thread or not.. we're the only ones posting anymore..lol.

I think it would be a sweet set up for me.. running that inline cooler.. but I'm not going to have issues in the foreseeable future.. but the OP is running 2 600's in series.. I think that may be overkill for his needs... I mean a cool tube set up with a nice sized fan moving air from outside the grow room.. to either outside, or into another room all together would likely work well for him and his needs. but his original idea of using a mod'ed fridge would I think be ok if instead used a closed system with a small window AC unit vented out of his room. could just run a loop and be cool.. think he could even make a few holes in the box to help cool his room if he needed to and still keep everything running cool.

Sorry i didnt get back here sooner. I was also thinking, wouldnt the condensation from the fridge cause some problems such as mold due to the fact it will sit in the ducting? I would love to have 2 1000's within 10 inches from the plants. I like the looks of the liquid lumens product. Although all i need is more water and another res to deal with..

I like the AC idea. You can get an AC with automated temperature and 5000 btus for a low price. If you are worried about energy get an energy efficient unit. Even though it may have a high wattage it is not on all of the time thereby actually using less energy. The only reason a fridge would be a low wattage unit is due to the insulation of a fridge. If you duct it, it will not be able to keep things as cool. A fridge is not made to cool an entire area only the volume within it. As for fans, the cheapest method is to get 10" radiator fans on ebay for about $25 a piece which has a higher cfm rating than a $250 6" inline ducting fan. You will also need a good CPU power supply or a constant battery charger with a lawn mower battery. ...I havent checked the wattage of the AC or a mini fridge, just going off of physics.

Oh, forgot to mention, try opening a normal size fridge and leave it open and see how much it cools down a room. The coils on the back of the fridge will work the exact opposite so while you are trying to cool the lights you will heat up the room.

y not mount an extremely bad ass rack to hang the lil fridge from the ceiling and modify the main door to replace it with a tempered glass plate and seal it. then just run the crazy shit when needed it would prob condensate an catch some shit on fire but hey somebody do it an we will see... any ways i would think you were just better off tapping into your central air and then reventing it back into the attic. if thats an option. or revent it to where the thermostat is so it kicks on more frequently.

jackal28 said:

I like the AC idea. You can get an AC with automated temperature and 5000 btus for a low price. If you are worried about energy get an energy efficient unit. Even though it may have a high wattage it is not on all of the time thereby actually using less energy. The only reason a fridge would be a low wattage unit is due to the insulation of a fridge. If you duct it, it will not be able to keep things as cool. A fridge is not made to cool an entire area only the volume within it. As for fans, the cheapest method is to get 10" radiator fans on ebay for about $25 a piece which has a higher cfm rating than a $250 6" inline ducting fan. You will also need a good CPU power supply or a constant battery charger with a lawn mower battery. ...I havent checked the wattage of the AC or a mini fridge, just going off of physics.

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My theory is, the average temp in a refrigerator is 35-38 degrees. Even if this temp goes up another 25-30 degrees it should still be cold enough to cool the tube to almost room temp. Another concept i thought about is, an a/c unit outside of the grow room in a seperate small box which it would be ran to keep temps in its box to lets say 55 degrees. Now to cool a big room it would take alot of energy, to cool something along the lines of 4 x 4 x 4 would use alot less energy. Now pull the air out of that box with the ducting straight into ur cooltubes and out into ur grow room.

lazypothead420 said:

My theory is, the average temp in a refrigerator is 35-38 degrees. Even if this temp goes up another 25-30 degrees it should still be cold enough to cool the tube to almost room temp. Another concept i thought about is, an a/c unit outside of the grow room in a separate small box which it would be ran to keep temps in its box to lets say 55 degrees. Now to cool a big room it would take a lot of energy, to cool something along the lines of 4 x 4 x 4 would use a lot less energy. Now pull the air out of that box with the ducting straight into ur cool tubes and out into ur grow room.

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I understand where you are going, but your AC idea is much better than a fridge or freezer. Even though a fridge and freezer do not exactly have stale air, it is a constant temperature air. In physics stale air is one of the best insulators known I.E. styrophome, fiberglass, towels. They are all designed to hole air. When that air is released there is no more insulation. That is the way a refrigerator keeps cold. If you run air through it, it will not solve the problem. In fact you may cause more of a problem because as Einstein stated "Energy cannot be created or destroyed". Therefore every bit of energy drawn from the room "cooling" will be replaced by the energy used to cool the room "hot coils on the back of a fridge". Only an air conditioner with a much larger compressor that is vented to the outside will take care of this issue. I don't know your average outdoor temperature or your room setup, but I am currently building a grow room in my attic. When summer comes back around I will install an automatic ac unit into a side wall which will vent to the attic. The best bet will be to install the unit high up and point the vents up so that the cold air will fall and eventually shut off the unit when it reaches a certain temperature. I would definitly stick with an air conditioner. I did like the idea of taping into the main ac to save cash, but you will have to map out the air flow of the ducting, plus add in resistance and temperature differences making this process much more difficult than trying an window ac unit. Just make sure that whatever you do you keep the coils of the back of the ac unit out of your airflow and easily vent able, otherwise the ac unit will be of no use. I hope this is helpful.

Sorry, but I forgot to point out. An automatic AC will use less energy because even though it draws a lot of power initially it would shut off once it reaches a certain temp. No matter what size the room a mini fridge would have to run constantly to drop it down maybe a degree or two. Even if it is 4x4 at a roof level such as an apartment you are still talking about cooling down a volume of 128. Thats more than a kitchen refrigerator. One thing about any unit...keep in mind that most places are set for a 15 amp load on each plug which is sometimes wired with the lighting. That means that you can only run 1800 watts per line (all inclusive). I had to learn this stuff to rewire the attic.

How many watts do u think a fridg uses?

average wattage for a fridge according to us DOE estimates on units manufactured after the 1990's is 300-700w depending on the cubic capicity

Sorry, let me clarify. I was talking about the wattage limit because an ac unit plus lighting (depending on lighting) may exceed the amperage (was a problem for me considering I am running 3 600 watt hps bulbs plus fans and ac). I haven't looked up how many watts a fridge takes. I understand that a fridge may take less watts then an ac. My point was that if you duct a fridge the compressor would have to be on non-stop to even partially cool a room versus an ac which would only be running part of the time. Even though an ac may take more watts to run you need to consider the amount of time each would be running to get an accurate portrait of energy usage. Hope this clarifies a little better. Good luck on the room, I hope everything goes well.

Well i guess the fridge idea is outta the question. Come one guys, lets all put our brains together and see what we can come up with. I'm sure we can come up with a more efficient way to keep our rooms and lights nice n' cool.

well the most effecient way is going to be a liquid cooled heat exchange system... but the problem with that is making it small enough to fit in the areas we need it too

Very true.. But, alot of ppl dont like the fact you need a chiller, rez, and all the other stuff when their grow room is already packed. What about an a/c unit designed strickly to be hooked up like a inline fan mounted right on the outside of the room. This way, less wattage can be used instead of those bigger units that cool the whole room. I mean what keeps our rooms soo damn hot? The lights right? Cool the lights, u cool the whole room.