Anthocyanins purple stems

BDOGKush said:

Your own source disproves your theory that Anthocyanins are purely from stress; right in the introduction.

"Anthocyanin may be developmentally transient, appearing only in juvenile or senescing tissues, or they may be permanent. Likewise, they may be environmentally transient, appearing and disappearing with changes in photoperiod, temperature or other signals."

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I dont think you understood whatever it is you read on transient anthocyanins but when you realise what the application of transient anthocyanin in plants relates to i will duly accept your apology

I wouldnt quote this as it is very technical but i can attempt to if you have the time.

Is this guy for real?

BDOGKush said:

It's bullshit that plants produce anthocyanin to attract animals and pollinators? lol

http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0001909.html

Key Concepts:

• Anthocyanins provide the majority of red to blue colours of plants.
  
  
• Anthocyanins in plants attract or repel pollinators and seed dispersers, and serve protective and defensive roles.
  

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You skimped over the full text or misinterpreted it, i didnt say anthocyanin wasnt used for flower exspression in certain plant species

I CITED HOW IF YOU STRESS ONE OF THESE PURPLE FLOWERS (I.E. PETUNIA as in the link) IT GETS MORE PURPLE...

you need me to draw you a diagram or somthing?!

2Hearts said:

You skimped over the full text or misinterpreted it, i didnt say anthocyanin wasnt used for flower exspression in certain plant species

I CITED HOW IF YOU STRESS ONE OF THESE PURPLE FLOWERS (I.E. PETUNIA as in the link) IT GETS MORE PURPLE...

you need me to draw you a diagram or somthing?!

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Yes, please get your crayons out

BDOGKush said:

Anthocyanins are not purely a result of stress. Plenty of plants have naturally high levels of Anthocyanins and express color variations as a way to attract pollinators and other animals.

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2Hearts said:

Bullshit

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@BDOGKush
Haha i like your style...

Again anthocyanin is not purely a result of stress but even those species colourations are governed by stress as in the gape grower who uses water stress to increase anthocyanin production. Chlorophyl destruction does not necessarially mean anthocyanin production is increased.

Read what ive said carefully, re read what youve trolled and where is the Bs?

2Hearts said:

Haha i like your style...

Again anthocyanin is not purely a result of stress but even those species colourations are governed by stress as in the gape grower who uses water stress to increase anthocyanin production. Chlorophyl destruction does not necessarially mean anthocyanin production is increased.

Read what ive said carefully, re read what youve trolled and where is the Bs?

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I haven't trolled a damn thing lol, you called bullshit on my post that I quoted and now you're back tracking.

Gary Goodson said:

Yes, please get your crayons out

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Aw shit ive lost the purple one, can you ask my mommy to get one on the way home?

2Hearts said:

Why make it such a mystery when it is clearly an environmental problem i.e. adjust the fan or temps or humidity etc etc?!

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environmental problem?

I can take 12 clones off a blueberry ...
6 will show lots a purple even in veg
6 will always be green

the next time 4 will stay green
4 will have purple stems
4 will just have purple leaf stems

all in the same dirt, same temps, same wind

1st question: do I want the purple or don't I?
should I care?
if I want them all to look and be the same should I figure out different temps and winds and dirt for each pheno?

LOL @ environmental problem
more of a logistics nighmare

BDOGKush said:

I haven't trolled a damn thing lol, you called bullshit on my post that I quoted and now you're back tracking.

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Its not back tracking, re read it again they both confirm what im saying.

Broadly anthocyanins are quite amazing and do many things, most higher plants can make them and flowers through evolution have increased their production of them (but only in select tissue parts hence why no purple stem on most). Now stress futher activates the production hence two identical purple flowers will show different shades i.e. The stressed one darker and the healthier one lighter, this aint some magical science.

Now different plants different exspressions and different uses which come about from evolutionary forces.

So now were talking a NON (I REPEAT) non purple strain or genetic hash plant in the seedling veg stage (so nothing to do with flower formation). What do you think its reasons are to produce purple, attracting insects at this stage might be very bad, kinda dont see these plants lasting long or passing on genetics. Possibly to block sun (technicallt they absorb it and produce electricity but that protects chlorophyl by absorbing some of the light meaning less to damage your chlorophyl), this seems plausable, maybe your lights are a bit too bright and close.

There is a lot more if you care to look into it, it can help a stressed plant whilst it has impaired function by reducing transpiration through osmoregulation.

Pretty much anything and everything apart from what you guys are saying, its a wide open subject...

Growers report more purpling in indoor grows to outdoor at the same latitude location temps humidity etc etc they then went on to explain why conditions outside were more condusive greener growth because they had bigger root systema in the field and group planting provided greater relief from wind etc etc.

I would have said it was the other way round but they say its hard to get it spot on indoors with nutes pots res ph etc.

Yes blueberry will show more purple when stressed over non stressed plants as supposedly it is more genetically sensitive to stress and some growers appreciate this stress gene anthocyanin relationship more because in autumn when it gets colder drier and windy the bud is more susceptable to anthrocyanin stress or purple. It is also reported that a trpical hash plant will show more purple in colder latitudes and thats one that isnt genetically purple like blueberry.

Just where the hec do you think growers got this trait from? Ill bet it was cold sensitive plants hence stress is the determining factor for dank purple bud supposedly.

You keep giving this flawed argument! Im just saying and what you do in your own grow room is upto you as explained in many threads!

Hoare said:

environmental problem?

I can take 12 clones off a blueberry ...
6 will show lots a purple even in veg
6 will always be green

the next time 4 will stay green
4 will have purple stems
4 will just have purple leaf stems

all in the same dirt, same temps, same wind

1st question: do I want the purple or don't I?
should I care?
if I want them all to look and be the same should I figure out different temps and winds and dirt for each pheno?

LOL @ environmental problem
more of a logistics nighmare

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Here's a quandary. If turning purple is, at times, a defensive action on that part of the plant, would it not stand to reason that this is widespread because it provides the plant some benefit? i.e. perhaps a plant that turns purple quickly is actually the less cold sensitive one (with sensitive in this case meaning easily harmed), since the purpling effect will allow it to survive conditions that a non-purpling plant could not? This would hold up to my personal experience as I just flowered a bunch of bagseed plants outdoors in the middle of winter, about half of which turned a very very dark purple (Almost black) and half of which stayed green, and the plants that turned purple were much more vigorous and hardy than the ones that stayed green, which were pretty lackluster. Also, interestingly, the green ones got swamped by bugs, mainly aphids and leafhoppers, whereas the purple ones were relatively bug free other than serving as home to several garden spiders.

Ace Yonder said:

Here's a quandary. If turning purple is, at times, a defensive action on that part of the plant, would it not stand to reason that this is widespread because it provides the plant some benefit? i.e. perhaps a plant that turns purple quickly is actually the less cold sensitive one (with sensitive in this case meaning easily harmed), since the purpling effect will allow it to survive conditions that a non-purpling plant could not? This would hold up to my personal experience as I just flowered a bunch of bagseed plants outdoors in the middle of winter, about half of which turned a very very dark purple (Almost black) and half of which stayed green, and the plants that turned purple were much more vigorous and hardy than the ones that stayed green, which were pretty lackluster. Also, interestingly, the green ones got swamped by bugs, mainly aphids and leafhoppers, whereas the purple ones were relatively bug free other than serving as home to several garden spiders.

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You sir have just written the first intresting post and make a real point of which i totally agree with your experiences. Cold resiliant strains show more purple as it is used to counteract stress i.e. It helps osmo-regulate transpiration and slow it down. It also attracts and repels insects depending on the bugs love or hate of certain colours. It certainly dosent go to all that hassle for nothing.

Plants dont do anything without a reason and its sole goal is to reproduce.

I was just going to ask these guys to explain to me why the plant turns purple if not what im saying?

++rep to that guy

Ace Yonder said:

Here's a quandary. If turning purple is, at times, a defensive action on that part of the plant, would it not stand to reason that this is widespread because it provides the plant some benefit? i.e. perhaps a plant that turns purple quickly is actually the less cold sensitive one (with sensitive in this case meaning easily harmed), since the purpling effect will allow it to survive conditions that a non-purpling plant could not? This would hold up to my personal experience as I just flowered a bunch of bagseed plants outdoors in the middle of winter, about half of which turned a very very dark purple (Almost black) and half of which stayed green, and the plants that turned purple were much more vigorous and hardy than the ones that stayed green, which were pretty lackluster. Also, interestingly, the green ones got swamped by bugs, mainly aphids and leafhoppers, whereas the purple ones were relatively bug free other than serving as home to several garden spiders.

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Sorry i didnt answer the question very well but exactly this-

Plants use anthrocyanin to regulate transpiration through osmoregulation. Cold slows growth but anthrocyanin allows it to happen at a higher rate under stress through osmoregulation.

Purple strains from colder climates learnt to produce more anthrocyanin to protect from the effects of the cold than warmer strains who didnt have to deal with this stress as much.

The fact that its been present in plants for millions of years has allowed plants to tap into the many benifits of it. What some growers fail to want to accept is theres a good chance that purple is from one of its benifits caused by stress.

Whew....Man I am so glad that I understand that most of this shit doesn't mean a motherfuckin thing to a simple grower like myself.
If it did, it wouldn't be any fun.
Fuck dat.
I didn't like school much either. I get distracted too easy.

Cobnobuler said:

Whew....Man I am so glad that I understand that most of this shit doesn't mean a motherfuckin thing to a simple grower like myself.
If it did, it wouldn't be any fun.
Fuck dat.
I didn't like school much either. I get distracted too easy.

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I hear ya, this dosent have to make a big difference and im not questioning a plants ability to grow as they are very tolerante even weed like, whats a little purple in the grand scheme of things.

But for me ive been that grower before but want to push on maximising yeilds etc.

There are growers growing the same strains that have no purple and their plants are bigger and better looking but i never see a touch of purple anywhere. I can only guess they tweak their environment to near perfect or know somthing i dont.

Obviously i can grow weed no problems but am i not meant to up my skill level?

Someone accused me of trying to teach but i couldnt tell you what caused that purple in a non purple strain in veg but things do point to a lot of things people could debate or give as a "possible" answer.

OK, I get what your attempting to do......The answers to questions from those who use this place to "learn" how to grow, without ever reading about it or even how to grow a house plant. That go "why is my little stem, branch , etc. purple?

So, for some reason you have a bug up your ass to be all "technical" about it and are attempting to chide those of us who give simple, non technical answers to those that have no idea about what the hell we are talking about here.....Is wrong....

Look dude.....I actually like this discussion! It's GREAT to have a real technical chat BUT......When one of the members here gives out an answer on purple stems on a 2 leaved seedling as being "genetic" and to "forget it".......99.998% of the time, it's the right thing to say to this non growing newbie who would go out and take your "stress" answer to the chem shop and throw everything in the book at the problem and kill the frickin plant in the process.......

For the most part. Every time I actually "see" a problem in their plant. It's not related to the "purple in the stem"! It is a sign of plant stress. (In older plants only)....but for gods sake dude, they think it's a direct link to need to throw a "cure" on a seedling!

Here read this as the POINT I'm trying to make here.

"Question: My cannabis plants are young (growing in soil indoors with sunlight and my leaves are medium sized) yet my main stems are turning purple from the top downwards. Have you seen this before?
Answer: When a cannabis plant or seedling has a purple stem without any other signs of problems, it is often the result of genetics. Some cannabis strains just naturally tend to grow with purple stems, especially when seedlings are young, or when the plants get cooler temperatures at night.

Wait a week or two before making any alterations if your plant otherwise appears healthy. The stems should turn green soon in most cases. As long as your leaves are healthy and you have no other symptoms, you usually don't need to worry about purple stems."

THIS is right!

Now then back to adult tech time...
I agree that stress is the main cause of purple expression in plants - no argument about that as I have played the game with temps and chems too.......BUT I disagree in your statement that there are no true purple strains that express without "stress"....
I'm not trolling here and neither was BDOG! Your simply standing firm on your "conclusion" that there are NO purple strains and it's ALL stress related.....
In the past (not to long ago) I did some looking at this too.....I read papers that say that there are transient "Ants" that effect plant coloring and this is becoming prevalent due to the breeding programs to express this "trait".......And no, I'm not going to spend hrs looking to find this and that paper to back my case....This topic is just not that important!


In the end, you are correct and I (along with many others) trying to point out there are purple expressing strains (and pheno's, thanks ACE !!!) that do it without stress, are correct too!!

Nice research by the way....I kinda feel it may be a tad incomplete or that you drew your conclusion a bit early....Maybe your just being a bit inflexible about your conclusion.......What ever.....now be nice to the rest of the kiddies playing!

Doc

BTW as to one of your posts above,,, ..I agree 100%!! Nice....

Growers report more purpling in indoor grows to outdoor at the same latitude location temps humidity etc etc they then went on to explain why conditions outside were more condusive greener growth because they had bigger root systema in the field and group planting provided greater relief from wind etc etc.

I would have said it was the other way round but they say its hard to get it spot on indoors with nutes pots res ph etc.

Yes blueberry will show more purple when stressed over non stressed plants as supposedly it is more genetically sensitive to stress and some growers appreciate this stress gene anthocyanin relationship more because in autumn when it gets colder drier and windy the bud is more susceptable to anthrocyanin stress or purple. It is also reported that a trpical hash plant will show more purple in colder latitudes and thats one that isnt genetically purple like blueberry.

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I dislike the fact that Op clearly ignored several members posting genetically inclined purple strains. He believe evidence written by others, but when presented with actual photographs that disagree he ignores them blatently. Hey OP, go checkout Buckeye Purple and see it turn purple in week 1 of flower. Or go talk to a breeder of purple strains and ask them why they don't get any green buds even though their environments are optimal

Cobnobuler said:

View attachment 3483653

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that is just sooo juicy looking man..dam makes my mouth water lol