anyone else kid themselves about the whole legalization game?

well, I'm posting this because I was one of those growers who was convinced just because I grow high grade bud and live in a nice patch of land I had a shot at doing something with true cannabis legalization, as a business.

all I can say is that I've changed my mind. the market isn't turning into what I thought it would, people want the cheapest bud, the highest quality, and really don't give a fuck where it was grown from, how it was bred, or any of the details I thought truly mattered. its all about getting high to this consumer. not to mention there are over 10,000 strains, less then 10% of them are truly unique. which is why a grower like me will never be able to be anything more than a hobbyist.

so I was wondering if any growers like myself had initially thought they could start a business then eventually realized they'd be better off doing this as a hobby instead.

anyone other growers out there come to this same conclusion?

For the vote to pass in any state there has to be a majority of people that vote it in, ie, they already smoke and have connections. I fell the real money will be if we ever get to the coffee shop or cafe stage. Than you can get a shot to stand out and franchise. The only problem with that is you will be painting a target on yourself for the feds. Kind of like Starbucks if you get my drift. That would make me go all in for sure.

well that's not where I was coming from, I nkow legalization is going to happen, there's no doubt about it in my mind. I just don't think the legalized grower is going to be anything like most people think. it'll likely be large scale outdoors with clones and tons of acreage tons of management etc. not saying the quality would go down, I'm just saying growers like myself who thought they could go after a specific connoisseur market might be in for some disappointment.

I'd prefer a caregiver (arthritis and stuff) to have a smaller more personal grow and know that they put care and attention to detail in their growing; they appreciate the finer points of the plant... Not just about gettin high. I personally like how you think.

xKuroiTaimax said:

I'd prefer a caregiver (arthritis and stuff) to have a smaller more personal grow and know that they put care and attention to detail in their growing; they appreciate the finer points of the plant... Not just about gettin high. I personally like how you think.

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now that's an interesting concept.

the real question is , how does the care-giving thing work out in a legalized environment? does the government pay for the caregivnig? does your insurance company? interesting....

poplars said:

well that's not where I was coming from, I nkow legalization is going to happen, there's no doubt about it in my mind. I just don't think the legalized grower is going to be anything like most people think. it'll likely be large scale outdoors with clones and tons of acreage tons of management etc. not saying the quality would go down, I'm just saying growers like myself who thought they could go after a specific connoisseur market might be in for some disappointment.

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Ok I see where you are coming from and I ageee, by the time it is legal the Cargills and Farmers will step up and control the growing for sure. No doubt you are 100 percent correct on this aspect.

chrishydro said:

Ok I see where you are coming from and I ageee, by the time it is legal the Cargills and Farmers will step up and control the growing for sure. No doubt you are 100 percent correct on this aspect.

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yeah...

I like where Kuroi is coming from with the caregivnig, that might be the ONE way small growers like me can continue to do what we do. otherwise small growers like me will just be growing for themselves their family and their friends.

I've seen the farmland out where I live, it's pretty overwealming. if 1/5th of it got dedicated to cannabis they could pretty much show us growers how it's really done.

I bet you within 5 years most of those farmers would be producing bud that would satisfy the average consumer.

my perspective was the only way to survive in a legalized environment would be like a 'microbrew' connoisseur environment. but the dynamics of cannabis legalization leave me skeptical that there is such a market that could be worked by a percentage of people or not... maybe it'll just be the lucky few.

poplars said:

now that's an interesting concept.

the real question is , how does the care-giving thing work out in a legalized environment? does the government pay for the caregivnig? does your insurance company? interesting....

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Well by the time it is legal Obama will be out of office so there will be no gov payments lol had to throw that one in. Seriously I would rather see it just go legal on a non medical basis. IE anyone 21 or older can have access like alcahol or cigs. That is when the money will be made for sure on all levels. On the other aspect I feel the Insurance companies would be in favor of it as they would no longer have to pay for the expensive pharma out there now. It would cut billions of their spending as weed is much cheaper and does the same thing as most pain meds, anti depresants and sleep aides. On the other hand the gov knows that the tax on these same drugs is a lot of money and they dont want to lose the revenue. I have always supported a flat tax on each plant grown and strick enforcement of this law. I feel that is handled right would bring enough money to the state and local govs to get behind the movement. I have suggested this to my county officials but they are old people that just dont care enough to look at it.

I initially wanted to be a commercial grower, but then they changed the laws so that you had to have a dispensary if you wanted to commercial grow. I had no interest in the retail aspect of a dispensary, and I did not want to grow for a dispensary, essentially being 'owned' by them.

So yea, we gave up on that dream. Now we've watched prices here go from $400 an oz to $150 an oz, and 1/8 go from $65 to $25. Dispensaries are closing left and right, and the ones backed by big money are the surviviors. You've gotta be moving Wal-Mart type quantity to make money at those prices. Even if you can manage to pull that off I don't think it sounds like much fun.

Oh yea, I saw listings for a 'Master Grower' expected to manage 600 plants at several locations for $12 an hour. That is ludicrous imo.

chrishydro said:

Well by the time it is legal Obama will be out of office so there will be no gov payments lol had to throw that one in. Seriously I would rather see it just go legal on a non medical basis. IE anyone 21 or older can have access like alcahol or cigs. That is when the money will be made for sure on all levels. On the other aspect I feel the Insurance companies would be in favor of it as they would no longer have to pay for the expensive pharma out there now. It would cut billions of their spending as weed is much cheaper and does the same thing as most pain meds, anti depresants and sleep aides. On the other hand the gov knows that the tax on these same drugs is a lot of money and they dont want to lose the revenue. I have always supported a flat tax on each plant grown and strick enforcement of this law. I feel that is handled right would bring enough money to the state and local govs to get behind the movement. I have suggested this to my county officials but they are old people that just dont care enough to look at it.

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if anything insurance wants to pay MORE. they figure out ways to make profit on it trust me .

there will always have to be medical cannabis, it is nothing like alcohol and ciggs in the respect that alcohol and ciggs have almost no medicinal benefit, cannabis has over 300+ medicinal benefits.

so I think there is a market for true caregiving. but I don't think true caregiving looks like a patient buying weed from a grower every month. I think it involves the insurance company compensating the grower for his efforts and his products whilst providing the patient with basically free high grade connoisseur grade medical cannabis.


these companies that exist doing these sorts of things with pharmaceutics are going to have to confront this emerging market. they will figure out a way to make it work for them. all we have to do is figure out a way to make them work for us at the same time.... otherwise we'll just be hobbyist and commercial growers.

CaptainCAVEMAN said:

I initially wanted to be a commercial grower, but then they changed the laws so that you had to have a dispensary if you wanted to commercial grow. I had no interest in the retail aspect of a dispensary, and I did not want to grow for a dispensary, essentially being 'owned' by them.

So yea, we gave up on that dream. Now we've watched prices here go from $400 an oz to $150 an oz, and 1/8 go from $65 to $25. Dispensaries are closing left and right, and the ones backed by big money are the surviviors. You've gotta be moving Wal-Mart type quantity to make money at those prices. Even if you can manage to pull that off I don't think it sounds like much fun.

Oh yea, I saw listings for a 'Master Grower' expected to manage 600 plants at several locations for $12 an hour. That is ludicrous imo.

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yep.... the true market is going to be overtaken by commercial outdoor growers who can produce high grade bud in high quantities. this bud will flood the market and drop 95% of the prices down.

the only prices that truly dodge these economic factors are the strains that are so unique they don't fall under the normal categories of strength of high or tolerance buildup or other significant effects.

but people still have to have a reason to buy this rare bud over normal bud that gives them a great high they enjoy. or this expensive bud that gives them an intense high they can't get anywhere else.

so Iv'e always believed the onyl way to make money in between a commercial grower and a hobbyist grower, is to be a connoisseur.

but because of the way the market is going, I see this connoisseur economic opprotunity closing. it doesn't look like many growers will even have an opprotunity to fill such a spot... those who do I would consider some of the luckiest people.

i dont think it'll be legalized anytime soon.look at whats happening to the dispensaries in cali.instead of progress,shits going backwards.
legalization means pharma companies will lose massive amounts of money.it'll only be legalized if pharma companies can control the market.
thats not going to happen.theyre even trying to shut shit down in holland.again going backwards instead of forwards.

resinousflowers said:

i dont think it'll be legalized anytime soon.look at whats happening to the dispensaries in cali.instead of progress,shits going backwards.
legalization means pharma companies will lose massive amounts of money.it'll only be legalized if pharma companies can control the market.
thats not going to happen.theyre even trying to shut shit down in holland.again going backwards instead of forwards.

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I understand your level of doubt.... but I'm sure before the prohibition of alcohol was over it probably /appeared/ as if it was never going to end. when it actually did.

remember the art of war, the enemy wants you to perceive they are never giving up so you will give up instead.

I also beleive that as younger politicians start to take control it will be a no brainer. I am 50 the people I vote for are older than me for the most part. When I see a young and upcoming politician I take a strong look at them for this exact reason.

It is just a question of time but it is going to take someone that can figure out a tax program to supliment the gov take before it ever happens not to mention the monies contributed by big pharma to stop the movement. How do we ever compete with that?

chrishydro said:

I also beleive that as younger politicians start to take control it will be a no brainer. I am 50 the people I vote for are older than me for the most part. When I see a young and upcoming politician I take a strong look at them for this exact reason.

It is just a question of time but it is going to take someone that can figure out a tax program to supliment the gov take before it ever happens not to mention the monies contributed by big pharma to stop the movement. How do we ever compete with that?

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yeah they're pretty much gonna start shit for themselves, thats the only way we'll get it for us. gotta love them 1%ers

I have yet to set up my tents, lights, and other equipment, but my original intention was to do it for a hobby and try to recoup my investment.
While it's true that I believe the vast majority of smokers do not care where it was from and what strain it is, I do believe that there is a market for anything. Having retired from sales I saw that in tight times the high-end products still sold.

There is a market....it just needs to be discreetly cultivated...pun intended. I whole-heartedly agree that if it's ever legalized the cartels and industrial farms will be all over it. If I can split $3-$4,000/mo with my partner in crime and sell to a handful of rich folks, so be it.
My $0.02 after taxes

Brother Numsi said:

I have yet to set up my tents, lights, and other equipment, but my original intention was to do it for a hobby and try to recoup my investment.
While it's true that I believe the vast majority of smokers do not care where it was from and what strain it is, I do believe that there is a market for anything. Having retired from sales I saw that in tight times the high-end products still sold.

There is a market....it just needs to be discreetly cultivated...pun intended. I whole-heartedly agree that if it's ever legalized the cartels and industrial farms will be all over it. If I can split $3-$4,000/mo with my partner in crime and sell to a handful of rich folks, so be it.
My $0.02 after taxes

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yeah see this was teh market I was intending to capitalize on. I"m an outdoor grower in an environment that can grow some of the highest quality connoisseur bud out there without the problems other parts of california has with bugs and mold.

but I've just grown jaded lately because of this fucked up economy, not very many people to come up to you and agree with you on how much your cannabis is worth ya know. I'll likely get a real job and lay low for a few years breeding my own strains until I see a /true/ opportunity arise, because there certainly isn't one now.

Yeah Poplars, I run into the cheapsters all the time via another friend that grows indoors. Again, I'm retired so my approach is very different. I also live in a draconian Southeastern state so we need to be extra careful. I have a good amount of equipment boxed in my garage...GL240, GL145, Hercules support for the 240, 2 Lumatek LK600's, 2 600w MH and 2 600w HPS bulbs, 2 250 CFL, 2 Supreme air-cooled reflectors, 2 reflectors for the CFL, PHRESH filter, several ratchet sets, a CanFan6HO, a 4" ECO fan, a BlueLab tester, Danby 13K BTU A/C, Sunblaze T-5 8 bulb and 4 bulb systems...prolly other stuff I've forgotten about. I'm ready to go...thought I'd be into my 4 plant perpetual harvest by now...bought this stuff in April, then a friend backed out, so I've had to find another off-site friend...his ex-wife moves out in Feb so it'll be a while.
I still have a lot to do....45g water containers...doing soil grow, the soil, nutes, pots, humidifier, and anything else that crops up....pun intended. I already have GrapeGod and Space Dawg beans. Have been hanging out on the forum, made a lot of friends, learned a huge amount with plenty to go yet, and have had fun planning

well I guess it's most likely that I'll continue to be a hobbyist. if legalization comes, might make a little extra money on my cannabis but I don't intend for it to be my main income.... I'd rather have friends come over and enjoy and truly realize how much better my bud is, without having to pay for it because that usually puts a barrier in between the enjoyment of such bud ya know....

With regard to the consumer just wanting to get high. I think that is incorrect. While it is a more prevalent issue given the size and legality of the market, it is no different to alcohol. While a huge number of people just buy the cheapest highest % booze they can find, there are plenty of folk who will happily spend the extra money to get a wine that is actually enjoyable, and not just for getting you drunk. I think part of theissue at present is also that it is a scorned upon thing, a lot of the people with the money who wjould buy the nicer bottle of alcohol, are often the kind who were brought up with the weeb = bad mentality. Maybe with time that will all change.

As to legalisation, i don't really see it happening any time soon, americas MMJ laws have turned the notion of medical cannabis into a complete joke and it is no longer taken that seriously as people see mmj in cali etc, as a trial, to see what would happen, and it's just kids making shit up so they can get a card that'll get them high. For legalisation there needs to be a bigger push from a different direction, the medical direction has been shot to pieces by it's users.

Weed to me holds no intrinsic value though, i would much much rather hold down a job than make my living from pot. I don't like spending a few months sitting around bored let alone years, work keeps your mind sharp, keeps you from becoming a slob and whatnot. I'l do it as a hobby and supplement my income in a small manner, even be it just for petrol money given what we pay in the UK, but i would never chose it as my sole income.