Anyone used Short day cycles 6/12 ??
- Thread starter headbandrocker
- Start date
isnt OverGrow gone? too bad that info wasnt archived. The trigger thing seems complicated. I was wondering if you could just go from 24 veg to 6/12 flower.
That's really what I thought this thread was going to test.
Timers are getting more advanced, so I can see this being more applicable than it used to be (I cant believe you were able to get up at those weird hours all the time to turn lights on/off!)
I dont see anything other than 12/12 very much, but if it does work, I'd sure like to!
That's really what I thought this thread was going to test.
Timers are getting more advanced, so I can see this being more applicable than it used to be (I cant believe you were able to get up at those weird hours all the time to turn lights on/off!)
I dont see anything other than 12/12 very much, but if it does work, I'd sure like to!
The results have been in for a long time now. Simply relaying the info. As I said it was on OGs forums and in print, just thought you'd be interested. I did these experiments 18 years ago, lol.
laminatedspacedestruction
Member
subscribed!
toastypimp
Active Member
subscribed!
This seems too good to be true and that's only from reading how a plant makes bud. When the lights are off a chemical buildup in the plant occurs that tells the plant to make buds. When you turn the lights on this chemical is pretty much cut off and it starts its light cycle.
So, when you shorten the time the plant has to make bud...it makes more bud? Like, the plant works harder during its bud cycle or what?
jimmyc
Active Member
Not what I said!! I lengthened the time for several weeks (36/12) then I shortened it, 6/12) till finish. The only time I use 6/12 is at the end. As Ed says in his article it would reduce grow time even if it finished sooner it would be a lower yeild. But this is for 6/12 all the wa out different than my methods.Most people think I'm crazy and they're right! LOL
thegreenman
Active Member
I tried having shorter days on my last grow. Unfortunatley i also fucked it up by not being around for a month and letting the ph get way too low so i cant give a fair idea of yeild, it was a shit grow. I did find though that if you set your timers to 6.40 off and 12 on you can fit 9 'days' into a week, that way its easier to keep track of when its on and off and you only need a timer that supports 9 programs.
When i realised how bad it had gone i panicked and switched back to 12/12, bad idea. It tripped them back into veg then straight back to bloom and caused double budding and a considerable drop in yeild.
From what i've played with i think shorter days have the potential to work quite well. Faster grow and cheaper electric per grow is attractive but im gonna finnish the grow im on on 12/12 since im trying out a combination of LST, FIM and supper cropping and i dont want to make it any more complicated than it already is! If everything goes well i'll be trying 6.40/12 again.
When i realised how bad it had gone i panicked and switched back to 12/12, bad idea. It tripped them back into veg then straight back to bloom and caused double budding and a considerable drop in yeild.
From what i've played with i think shorter days have the potential to work quite well. Faster grow and cheaper electric per grow is attractive but im gonna finnish the grow im on on 12/12 since im trying out a combination of LST, FIM and supper cropping and i dont want to make it any more complicated than it already is! If everything goes well i'll be trying 6.40/12 again.
headbandrocker
Well-Known Member
Greetings folkes i recently started a thread on a 6/12 exparment im doing feel free to head over for a ride in the time machine,cheers HBR
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/258737-hbrs-6-12-time-machine.html
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/258737-hbrs-6-12-time-machine.html
sherriberry
New Member
math is one of my strong points, and by reading this thread, i can tell a few of you are a bit confused...
the 6/12 method DOES save electricity.
Think of it this way, lights are on 1/3 the time... instead of 1/2 the time.
if you only think of the first day, then you are cheating yourself... you have to look at the next 3 days as well, make a chart if you have to... point is... your electric bill would be cut... and ill tell you the exact amount...
1/2 x 2 = 1
1/3 x 2 = 2/3
3/3 - 2/3 = 1/3
1/3 savings
or you can look at it like this, my lights are on .33% of the time instead of .5%
.50 - .3333 = .1666
.1666 goes into .50 three times.
So again, 1/3 or 33% savings on your electric bill.
Now if you factor in the heat reduction in your room... you might even save more money.
Plants grow at night. They store chemicals from day time until night comes, and then build themselves.
During the day the work is to capture the light and nutrients in water in soil... during night it doenst have light to capture, so it focuses its energy on building.
hypothetically... a plant can only store so much energy... kind of like a battery.
if you leave your cell phone on the charger for 2 weeks, it doesnt mean it will stay charged for a month... same concept here.
So, i think it makes sense that even with 1/3 less light, a plant could still perform comprable to the normal 12/12.
But that is all just theory... i dont have any data either way...
I just find this thread interesting and wanted to help a few people out who were having a hard time understanding the power savings aspect.
Cheers
the 6/12 method DOES save electricity.
Think of it this way, lights are on 1/3 the time... instead of 1/2 the time.
if you only think of the first day, then you are cheating yourself... you have to look at the next 3 days as well, make a chart if you have to... point is... your electric bill would be cut... and ill tell you the exact amount...
1/2 x 2 = 1
1/3 x 2 = 2/3
3/3 - 2/3 = 1/3
1/3 savings
or you can look at it like this, my lights are on .33% of the time instead of .5%
.50 - .3333 = .1666
.1666 goes into .50 three times.
So again, 1/3 or 33% savings on your electric bill.
Now if you factor in the heat reduction in your room... you might even save more money.
Plants grow at night. They store chemicals from day time until night comes, and then build themselves.
During the day the work is to capture the light and nutrients in water in soil... during night it doenst have light to capture, so it focuses its energy on building.
hypothetically... a plant can only store so much energy... kind of like a battery.
if you leave your cell phone on the charger for 2 weeks, it doesnt mean it will stay charged for a month... same concept here.
So, i think it makes sense that even with 1/3 less light, a plant could still perform comprable to the normal 12/12.
But that is all just theory... i dont have any data either way...
I just find this thread interesting and wanted to help a few people out who were having a hard time understanding the power savings aspect.
Cheers
sherriberry
New Member
biggest downfall i can see to this is... daytime might be at 3am... and night time might be at noon... each day it will vary. Every 3 days the cycle rotates.
So if you like checking on your plants, and dont have those nifty green lights that the plants cant see... then you are screwed and might mess up your plants.
As far as the question goes up top about "can you put the plants straight from 24/0 veg to 6/12 bloom... yes you can.
As someone already mentioned... what causes the plant to boom is the 12 hours of un interupted darkness.
24 hours of darkness would make your plant bloom... but problem is plant still needs light.
How much light?... consecutive light?...
thats the question at hand.
If a plant only needs 6 hours... and then everything after that is just wasted... and the plant has enough energy stored, and is waiting for the lights to go out... then this system WOULD make a plant bud faster because the 6 EXTRA hours that mother nature leaves the lights on.... is useless...
its like keeping a phone on a charger after it says its done charging...
so... do i know how much light CONSECUTIVE that a plant can use and needs during budding? NO
But, i do know there is a limit... there has to be.
And if it is only 6, or 7, 8, 9... whatever the number...
Then ALL OF US are wasting electricity and TIME by not letting the plant have the darkness it needs to burn through the energy it has.. and then come back for a new charge (daylight)
Im very interested to see what the tests show. Hopefully someone who has a grow in a basement or super dark room can do this... because like i said... you will have the lights out at high noon every 3 days by using this cycle.... and that means no other light can be present... which means you cant accidently check on your plants and let them see light.
So if you like checking on your plants, and dont have those nifty green lights that the plants cant see... then you are screwed and might mess up your plants.
As far as the question goes up top about "can you put the plants straight from 24/0 veg to 6/12 bloom... yes you can.
As someone already mentioned... what causes the plant to boom is the 12 hours of un interupted darkness.
24 hours of darkness would make your plant bloom... but problem is plant still needs light.
How much light?... consecutive light?...
thats the question at hand.
If a plant only needs 6 hours... and then everything after that is just wasted... and the plant has enough energy stored, and is waiting for the lights to go out... then this system WOULD make a plant bud faster because the 6 EXTRA hours that mother nature leaves the lights on.... is useless...
its like keeping a phone on a charger after it says its done charging...
so... do i know how much light CONSECUTIVE that a plant can use and needs during budding? NO
But, i do know there is a limit... there has to be.
And if it is only 6, or 7, 8, 9... whatever the number...
Then ALL OF US are wasting electricity and TIME by not letting the plant have the darkness it needs to burn through the energy it has.. and then come back for a new charge (daylight)
Im very interested to see what the tests show. Hopefully someone who has a grow in a basement or super dark room can do this... because like i said... you will have the lights out at high noon every 3 days by using this cycle.... and that means no other light can be present... which means you cant accidently check on your plants and let them see light.
sherriberry
New Member
and for all of you who think... "plants dont need darkenss... hell, i veg them 24 hours straight for a month with no darkenss!"
What you may not realize is the plant has a window (ive heard 4 hours, but im sure it varries plant to plant species)... the plant has a window of time where once it has so much light energy saved up... IT SHUTS DOWN ITS LIGHT ABSORBTION for a 4? hour period, until it uses that energy, and then goes back to absorbing light again.
So for all of those of you who burn your lights 24/7... theres roughly 4 hours a day that you WASTE your electricity... that the plant isnt even using.
And it actually stresses the plant... just as you dont like to sleep with a light blaring in your face... nor does the plant... it doenst have eye lids.
This is why 24/7 lights on all the time... cause hermies... because its stressful on the plant.
The least stress on the plant during veg is 14.5 hours of light, and 9.5 dark.
Doing this and a few other things can almost ensure 100% female production from seeds... because it causes the least stress.
However... 20/4 will cause the plants to veg and grow faster... so pick your poison...
10/10 seeded plants are female but are smaller than...
6/10 plants that are female but are larger because they had 20/4 light cycle.
If you are starting from seed... i would recomend the 14.5/9.5 ... you lose less in the long run IMO.
If you are starting from clones or clippings... 20/4 is the way to go because sex is already determined at that point as long as you are clipping from a female.
Theres my 3 cents
What you may not realize is the plant has a window (ive heard 4 hours, but im sure it varries plant to plant species)... the plant has a window of time where once it has so much light energy saved up... IT SHUTS DOWN ITS LIGHT ABSORBTION for a 4? hour period, until it uses that energy, and then goes back to absorbing light again.
So for all of those of you who burn your lights 24/7... theres roughly 4 hours a day that you WASTE your electricity... that the plant isnt even using.
And it actually stresses the plant... just as you dont like to sleep with a light blaring in your face... nor does the plant... it doenst have eye lids.
This is why 24/7 lights on all the time... cause hermies... because its stressful on the plant.
The least stress on the plant during veg is 14.5 hours of light, and 9.5 dark.
Doing this and a few other things can almost ensure 100% female production from seeds... because it causes the least stress.
However... 20/4 will cause the plants to veg and grow faster... so pick your poison...
10/10 seeded plants are female but are smaller than...
6/10 plants that are female but are larger because they had 20/4 light cycle.
If you are starting from seed... i would recomend the 14.5/9.5 ... you lose less in the long run IMO.
If you are starting from clones or clippings... 20/4 is the way to go because sex is already determined at that point as long as you are clipping from a female.
Theres my 3 cents
pinner420
Well-Known Member
This thread actually failed to run this experiment as we all had high hopes that that it would. So for those of you looking for pictorial evidence of this here is the link that went the distance. http://strainguide.org/grow-archives-2/ looking in on this link you will find what you are looking for however since the site the thread was posted to is no longer you will have use you back button to navigate properly. Hope all is well and this helps you in your quest.
RanTyr
Active Member
You completely made that up (or regurgitated that from someone who made it up, which is worse) and are pretending that it is fact.and for all of you who think... "plants dont need darkenss... hell, i veg them 24 hours straight for a month with no darkenss!"
What you may not realize is the plant has a window (ive heard 4 hours, but im sure it varries plant to plant species)... the plant has a window of time where once it has so much light energy saved up... IT SHUTS DOWN ITS LIGHT ABSORBTION for a 4? hour period, until it uses that energy, and then goes back to absorbing light again.
So for all of those of you who burn your lights 24/7... theres roughly 4 hours a day that you WASTE your electricity... that the plant isnt even using.
And it actually stresses the plant... just as you dont like to sleep with a light blaring in your face... nor does the plant... it doenst have eye lids.
This is why 24/7 lights on all the time... cause hermies... because its stressful on the plant.
The least stress on the plant during veg is 14.5 hours of light, and 9.5 dark.
Doing this and a few other things can almost ensure 100% female production from seeds... because it causes the least stress.
However... 20/4 will cause the plants to veg and grow faster... so pick your poison...
10/10 seeded plants are female but are smaller than...
6/10 plants that are female but are larger because they had 20/4 light cycle.
If you are starting from seed... i would recomend the 14.5/9.5 ... you lose less in the long run IMO.
If you are starting from clones or clippings... 20/4 is the way to go because sex is already determined at that point as long as you are clipping from a female.
Theres my 3 cents
Perhaps you should take some botany classes.
plasmargon
Member
Harvest master got the idea of short cycling from my friend in Alaska, I like seeing ideas grow.
YES you can speed up harvest AND throw off the tell-tale signs in the electric meter with this technique but it will not produce more than you would get without short cycling. You will get about the same weight per average days it just comes to full maturity in 7/9ths of the time.
This technique uses a 7 day/ 10 event digital timer to fit 9 days into seven.
Starting at midnight on Sunday program your timer to be 'on' for 6 hours and 40 minutes (6:40 AM), then off for 12 hours (Sun. 6:40 PM) then on again for 6 hrs 40 min (until Mon. 1:20 AM) off again for 12hrs, etc. for nine full events then you will find it comes to ending in sync with the next weekly start cycle. (I recommend working it out on paper first)
We discovered back in the 80's that as long as you have the light off for 12 hours and on for equal amounts (4-12 hours) plants will continue to stay in fruit production mode.
If you have time restrictions or want to be sure there are no discernable electric patterns in your usage, this IS the way to go. You can fit 9 weeks of budding into 7. Cool.
YES you can speed up harvest AND throw off the tell-tale signs in the electric meter with this technique but it will not produce more than you would get without short cycling. You will get about the same weight per average days it just comes to full maturity in 7/9ths of the time.
This technique uses a 7 day/ 10 event digital timer to fit 9 days into seven.
Starting at midnight on Sunday program your timer to be 'on' for 6 hours and 40 minutes (6:40 AM), then off for 12 hours (Sun. 6:40 PM) then on again for 6 hrs 40 min (until Mon. 1:20 AM) off again for 12hrs, etc. for nine full events then you will find it comes to ending in sync with the next weekly start cycle. (I recommend working it out on paper first)
We discovered back in the 80's that as long as you have the light off for 12 hours and on for equal amounts (4-12 hours) plants will continue to stay in fruit production mode.
If you have time restrictions or want to be sure there are no discernable electric patterns in your usage, this IS the way to go. You can fit 9 weeks of budding into 7. Cool.
plasmargon
Member
Oh yeah @ sherriberry,
The idea of the plant shutting itself down has been proven to be false. It needs darkness to properly utilize the energy it gathered durring the light cycle. The reason most people don't like shutting off the light durring cloning is because of heat regulation which is way more important than giving rest to clones. This is very important though...if your mother is on a 24 light cycle it's most beneficial to have the clones the same way. Or if the mother is 16 hrs 'On' (ideal in 24 hour cycle) then the clones should be the same to alleviate stress durring cloning. This just means you need a good root mat heater to adjust for the cooler off period.
My recomondation to those cloning using the 'short cycle technique' is; fit all your cycles into the 18hr 40mn day length.
I do it like this; clone/ mother 'On' 14 hrs, 'Off' 4hrs 40min. Budding ; 'On' 6hrs 40min, 'Off' 12hrs.
Simillar to what the 'fast harvest' setting on the Harvest Master does.
The idea of the plant shutting itself down has been proven to be false. It needs darkness to properly utilize the energy it gathered durring the light cycle. The reason most people don't like shutting off the light durring cloning is because of heat regulation which is way more important than giving rest to clones. This is very important though...if your mother is on a 24 light cycle it's most beneficial to have the clones the same way. Or if the mother is 16 hrs 'On' (ideal in 24 hour cycle) then the clones should be the same to alleviate stress durring cloning. This just means you need a good root mat heater to adjust for the cooler off period.
My recomondation to those cloning using the 'short cycle technique' is; fit all your cycles into the 18hr 40mn day length.
I do it like this; clone/ mother 'On' 14 hrs, 'Off' 4hrs 40min. Budding ; 'On' 6hrs 40min, 'Off' 12hrs.
Simillar to what the 'fast harvest' setting on the Harvest Master does.
RanTyr
Active Member
This is also incorrect.
the church man
Well-Known Member
want to share your knowledge? can you elaborate on this? can you show that you are correct instead of just saying you are?
sherriberry
New Member
yeah, im all for learning... its hard when egos get involved.
I have a hard time looking up to anyones knowledge here based on the fact that NO ONE but the guy who posted the thread is intelligent enough to realize that 6/12 uses less electricity than 12/12... during a weeks time.
I also have a hard time believing that 24/7 light is not hard on a plant ... when it has been PROVEN that stress causes hermes, or seeds to germinate into males... when NOT ran in a 14.5/9.5 light cycle during veg until sex is shown.
So you can say im incorrect all you want, but its observable fact... run the science fair project for yourself.
Or, believe that i am incorrect, and keep doing it the way you are doing it.
As far as light cycles and electric bills go... and being noticed...
Having the lights come on at 6am, and stay on till midnight... IS NORMAL... for all they know, you have a couple big screen tv's and a computer you fire up every morning, and your wife and kids watch it till late at night.
Putting lights on a 6 on, 12 off... IS A HUGE RED FLAG... it will be a simple chart of spikes for the electric company to see on exact 6 hour incriments, and they will be like... who the hell wakes up at midnight and turns on their tv for 6 hours, then shuts if off until the next night at 6pm?
If you want to get the electric company off your back.. STAGGER your on off times by an hour or so. In other words... one morning 6 am, the next 6:30, the next 5:45, and have it bounce around... instead of EXACTLY every 12 hours... or whatever cycle you are on.
I can already see where this thread is going, and i doubt there is much more to be learned here... but rather... get to read intelligent individuals argue about why the other is wrong... only they dont have an argument... and would rather just insult eachother and say "you are incorrect"
ill leave you experts alone to duke this one out... if anyone gets too cocky... just pull up their quotes earlier in the thread where they say that a 6/12 cycle uses the same amount of electricity as a 12/12 over the course of a week. geniuses
sherriberry
New Member
Where did you get the idea that cloning is at all part of this discussion?
Im talking about veg'ing and blooming a plant.. i think everyone here is also..
who runs their clones on a 12/12 hour cycle? i have no clue what you are talking about.
This thread is about veging and blooming... and saving electricity, BECAUSE IT DOES for all you mathematical geniuses out there...
And then asking the question... "how are my yeilds and harvest times affected by this new cycle"
People are trying to save money on their 1000 watt setups that are used for harvest and veg...
i dont think anyone is trying to save the electric bill of their 2 fluro lights that are above their clones
Like i said to anyone who reads beyond this point.... goodluck, grab your popcorn and a joint... the smart ones who cant tell that 6 is less than 12... are going to enlighten us that we are "incorrect"
RanTyr
Active Member
That would require me doing the hard part of the research process so that all you have to do it read.