Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
You should look a little harder...you're in the right thread.
Do you have a name of said manufacturer?
Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow
- Thread starter Greengenes707
- Start date
Do you have a name of said manufacturer?
Gamberro
Well-Known Member
No, I didn't ask, but supposedly they are way behind stock due to demand from commercial growers. Either a lot of people don't know what they are doing (which is definitely the case in many matters regarding legalization in WA and CO) or an absurdly large number of people know what I don't know... If it's the latter, then I am very very unhappy!
nuglife707
Member
Thanks for the reply, that's interesting I didn't know you knew them, just to clarify in their defense they said that they were close, not that the LG was far superior or anything, they just said the AT and LG were the best LEDs on the market, and they had both been pretty impressive in tests. They were not bashing on Apache in any way, not trying to cause any kind of drama PLEASE, they're super cool. I was just asking some general questions looking for advice, similar as I'm asking you, since all of you are much more experienced. No need for a callout, I apologize I shouldn't have even said the name that was dumb, lesson learned, let's keep this positive! I was just wondering if you'd had experience with lumigrow 650 vs Apache and could give some perspective, as those were the two I was considering, it sounds like your answer is that AT gives a greater output and coverage, so there we go.
As far as having 3w chips in the AT, I got that info from the guy who answers the phone at Apache. I just spoke with him again today, and he said they had a new white chip that is 20% brighter than the previous ones and that they were going to be available in a couple weeks, crazy how fast this technology is advancing!
Have you been having the best results with the red/white for flowering and blue/white for veg? The guy at AT said a lot of people have been using all-whites, but maybe because they are using it for the full cycle, rather than having separate veg and flower lights. Trying to get the best setup possible!
As far as having 3w chips in the AT, I got that info from the guy who answers the phone at Apache. I just spoke with him again today, and he said they had a new white chip that is 20% brighter than the previous ones and that they were going to be available in a couple weeks, crazy how fast this technology is advancing!
Have you been having the best results with the red/white for flowering and blue/white for veg? The guy at AT said a lot of people have been using all-whites, but maybe because they are using it for the full cycle, rather than having separate veg and flower lights. Trying to get the best setup possible!
nuglife707
Member
GG after reading back my original comment again, I can see how it could be misinterpreted, so I want to clarify. I was just talking through my setup plan with him, and was asking about what LED's they sell, as I was leaning toward AT but want as much perspective as possible. He said their bestseller was LG, and that it is another high-end US-made LED like Apache, and that American is the only way to go if you want quality LED, but that in their recent testing the LG might have a slight edge, but that it was another guy that was doing the tests and they weren't finished yet so he couldn't say for sure. I asked if LG used 5w or 3w and they said 5w, and since we were discussing the issue of less penetration with LED vs HPS, I asked if the 5w might offer penetration than the 3w, as I had read that online. (BTW, do you agree with that?) They really weren't pushing or lying/misinforming or trying to sell me anything, just saying to consider the LG also, and maybe try both and see what works best for me. They were not saying LG is far superior to AT, didn't give me any misleading readings/results, as a matter of fact said that LG and AT are the most solid choices I could make.
So as RIU's LED boss, I figured I'd ask you what your opinion was, since you probably have compared the two and may have some of your own readings that could help in my decision. But yeah if AT will give you one, might as well bring in one of those newer 20% brighter AT600 v2.0's in there once they're available to have the showdown once and for all, knowledge is power! Apache looks like a beast, can't wait to get the new AT600!
So as RIU's LED boss, I figured I'd ask you what your opinion was, since you probably have compared the two and may have some of your own readings that could help in my decision. But yeah if AT will give you one, might as well bring in one of those newer 20% brighter AT600 v2.0's in there once they're available to have the showdown once and for all, knowledge is power! Apache looks like a beast, can't wait to get the new AT600!
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Don't worry. I am just a customer there. One of the few that uses led's and like to ask how their testing is going...so they ask me how my things are doing. I'm not spoiling my gig there either. I just find it interesting. So I rant. But thats all it is. I won't bring anything up form here. I am an AT loyalist as we all know, so sometimes I get defensive for my personal choice. But the numbers and results are what matter if they are presented eventually.
I got to feel the LG and see it on. Thats about it. Super freaking light weight. Fans are blowing down on the plants. Chips seemed/looked like quality. Just a quick glimpse when it was off. Just a little blue and middle spectrum. I am truly interested to see the readings on it. I have been quietly waiting for them to post an led video. They never seem to be as thorough as growers house...but I have hopes with their new testing procedures and equipment they will have some leading info. So just waiting to see what their findings are with it.
As for the chips AT uses...this is where they honestly don't know what to say. They have told me nichia 219's
These are they 219B's.
Webpage: http://www.nichia.com/en/product/led_product_data.html?type='NVSW119B'
Specsheet: http://www.nichia.com/specification/products/led/NVSW119B-E.pdf
Even says 5.1w Pd(power dissipation)
And the 219A's
http://www.leds.de/en/High-Power-LEDs/Nichia-High-Power-LEDs/Nichia-NVSW219AT-white-140lm.html
All 5w(1500ma) capable
They have mentioned new chips. And I saw on nichia they have new V1 versions now...seem the same but maybe they official have the highest bin. I am somewhat kept in the dark when it comes to spec sometimes...and I can only tell so much without the receipt/box. They are nichia 100%...but bin and exact 219/119 a/b model is near impossible without total disassemble and wreckage of my lights. I do have limits I will go to find specs out officially. So the reason my new lights are lagging better be those new(more like stronger) chips
So I wait patiently. They said keep them on the DL a few weeks ago so I haven't brought it up. Glad they are amping up for them.I have been using the RW apache's for longer than I was using R/B. It's just a superior spectrum for growth. The plants say so. It is quicker and more natural growth. And better yields because of the better growth. Also the intensity is the same too, within 100µmols. AT's R/B spectrum is interesting and maybe not the best in the R/B category. But their red and white is the killer and the leaders in the red/white movement.
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Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
The reason I stand behind apache so hard is because I have seen the results and numbers in front of my eyes many times with different measuring equipment to back it up. And I have seen the same of hps and the sun. I also have a good gasp on the light requirements, both spectrally and intensity wise, for cannabis. Apache is the best light I have seen and taken readings of. And I take readings form all over the potential canopy when I can. I roll around hydro shows with a camera and a par meter...kessil wouldn't let me take readings one time. I test as much as I can with what ever I got. Sometimes I have to take others word...like growers house or monster gardens, or like scotches great graphs(got them save buddy)...and it's all in my bank of info. But a week rounded and factually sourced and taken I guarantee.
So what I am trying to say is that I truly believe that apache is making the best pre made panels available. Price is a little harder with them, but it's about the same as the other "top tier" brands watt for watt. It is money well spent and only spent once on an AT. Tanks that last forever.
I am getting into DIY so that I can do and test what apache won't for me. And implement new tech immediately. Plus get my fix of fun too. It's a blast.
But as for pre made...AT is the top dog IMO.
And when the day comes that a light is doing what apache does, but better, I will pretty much be speech less and have no answer...other than that's gnarly. If it is there I will admit and recognize it.
illumitex new light coming out seems interesting.
So what I am trying to say is that I truly believe that apache is making the best pre made panels available. Price is a little harder with them, but it's about the same as the other "top tier" brands watt for watt. It is money well spent and only spent once on an AT. Tanks that last forever.
I am getting into DIY so that I can do and test what apache won't for me. And implement new tech immediately. Plus get my fix of fun too. It's a blast.
But as for pre made...AT is the top dog IMO.
And when the day comes that a light is doing what apache does, but better, I will pretty much be speech less and have no answer...other than that's gnarly. If it is there I will admit and recognize it.
illumitex new light coming out seems interesting.
nuglife707
Member
Haha whew thanks GG, appreciate the input and discretion I saw grower's house's PAR charts for both the LG and AT, and AT was leaps and bounds stronger. AND it was only with the AT600 at 24" up, while the Apache guys are saying it will be even better (in terms of AVG across the spread) at 36" up, and depending on the ratio of these new white chips even higher. I would love to see another unbiased comparison, since the LG does have some advantages although likely not in output, knowledge is power!
Thanks for the chip info, good to know. Do you by chance know if the LG uses Nichia chips or CREE or what they use? I wonder how they are able to make a light half the weight of the AT that performs even anywhere close, what's missing? For a closet grower in a police state the LG might be the way to go, but if you're legit if you are running multiple lights AT is the best of the best, especially with the new chips, eh?
OK cool, RW it is then, that's where I was leaning. For dedicated veg lights I was thinking of going with 4 AT200's Blue/White in a 4x8, for a nice spread. Or would you recommend all whites? I'm thinking for less internode length the blue/white would be best and still provide enough strength and spectrum to get solid roots and structure…
Thanks for the help, you're a true inspiration to the LED game, keep it lit!! You must be in my area so we'll have to roast some top notch LED once I get it everything dialed in! Gonna run it with the Nectar for the Gods organic line, ever try that?
I saw grower's house's PAR charts for both the LG and AT, and AT was leaps and bounds stronger. AND it was only with the AT600 at 24" up, while the Apache guys are saying it will be even better (in terms of AVG across the spread) at 36" up, and depending on the ratio of these new white chips even higher. I would love to see another unbiased comparison, since the LG does have some advantages although likely not in output, knowledge is power!Thanks for the chip info, good to know. Do you by chance know if the LG uses Nichia chips or CREE or what they use? I wonder how they are able to make a light half the weight of the AT that performs even anywhere close, what's missing? For a closet grower in a police state the LG might be the way to go, but if you're legit if you are running multiple lights AT is the best of the best, especially with the new chips, eh?
OK cool, RW it is then, that's where I was leaning. For dedicated veg lights I was thinking of going with 4 AT200's Blue/White in a 4x8, for a nice spread. Or would you recommend all whites? I'm thinking for less internode length the blue/white would be best and still provide enough strength and spectrum to get solid roots and structure…
Thanks for the help, you're a true inspiration to the LED game, keep it lit!! You must be in my area so we'll have to roast some top notch LED once I get it everything dialed in! Gonna run it with the Nectar for the Gods organic line, ever try that?
Don't worry. I am just a customer there. One of the few that uses led's and like to ask how their testing is going...so they ask me how my things are doing. I'm not spoiling my gig there either. I just find it interesting. So I rant. But thats all it is. I won't bring anything up form here. I am an AT loyalist as we all know, so sometimes I get defensive for my personal choice. But the numbers and results are what matter if they are presented eventually.
I got to feel the LG and see it on. Thats about it. Super freaking light weight. Fans are blowing down on the plants. Chips seemed/looked like quality. Just a quick glimpse when it was off. Just a little blue and middle spectrum. I am truly interested to see the readings on it. I have been quietly waiting for them to post an led video. They never seem to be as thorough as growers house...but I have hopes with their new testing procedures and equipment they will have some leading info. So just waiting to see what their findings are with it.
As for the chips AT uses...this is where they honestly don't know what to say. They have told me nichia 219's
These are they 219B's.
Webpage: http://www.nichia.com/en/product/led_product_data.html?type='NVSW119B'
Specsheet: http://www.nichia.com/specification/products/led/NVSW119B-E.pdf
Even says 5.1w Pd(power dissipation)
And the 219A's
http://www.leds.de/en/High-Power-LEDs/Nichia-High-Power-LEDs/Nichia-NVSW219AT-white-140lm.html
All 5w(1500ma) capable
They have mentioned new chips. And I saw on nichia they have new V1 versions now...seem the same but maybe they official have the highest bin. I am somewhat kept in the dark when it comes to spec sometimes...and I can only tell so much without the receipt/box. They are nichia 100%...but bin and exact 219/119 a/b model is near impossible without total disassemble and wreckage of my lights. I do have limits I will go to find specs out officially. So the reason my new lights are lagging better be those new(more like stronger) chips
I have been using the RW apache's for longer than I was using R/B. It's just a superior spectrum for growth. The plants say so. It is quicker and more natural growth. And better yields because of the better growth. Also the intensity is the same too, within 100µmols. AT's R/B spectrum is interesting and maybe not the best in the R/B category. But their red and white is the killer and the leaders in the red/white movement.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I forgot about veg. I use at120's all whites 2 per space. I have used a white/blue...but the all white is better/the same and more versatile if needed. If I had 200's to use it I would use them, the new chips in the 200's/600's are just better hands down. I am not a fan of the at200 pricing, but it is a great light.Haha whew thanks GG, appreciate the input and discretion
Thanks for the chip info, good to know. Do you by chance know if the LG uses Nichia chips or CREE or what they use? I wonder how they are able to make a light half the weight of the AT that performs even anywhere close, what's missing? For a closet grower in a police state the LG might be the way to go, but if you're legit if you are running multiple lights AT is the best of the best, especially with the new chips, eh?
OK cool, RW it is then, that's where I was leaning. For dedicated veg lights I was thinking of going with 4 AT200's Blue/White in a 4x8, for a nice spread. Or would you recommend all whites? I'm thinking for less internode length the blue/white would be best and still provide enough strength and spectrum to get solid roots and structure…
Thanks for the help, you're a true inspiration to the LED game, keep it lit!! You must be in my area so we'll have to roast some top notch LED once I get it everything dialed in! Gonna run it with the Nectar for the Gods organic line, ever try that?
I haven't gone for the nectar. They are always talking about it.
Nectar for the god, gavitas, and boogie brew...sounds like monster gardens.
nuglife707
Member
Haha you got it! Good people over there, they help me out a lot more than anyone else in the area when it comes to knowledge. Stopped by GrowLife on Santa Rosa ave the other day and they are closed, abruptly relocated to CO and let everyone go, they were pretty legit also. Those Gavitas do sound prime if you're going big time! OK I will probably go with the all white, if you're confident it will produce the same results… one of the main reasons I was attracted to LED in the first place was the structure people are getting vegging with blue/whites, so I just want to make sure. Apache said they'd hook up a solid discount on the 200's since I'm also grabbing some 600's, I just don't think I need 2 600's for vegging a 4x8, so the smaller lights would be preferable. Do you think 3 AT200's would be straight or do I need 4?
Another thing I was considering is a light rail, but with 50 lb lights I don't know how it will handle, don't want the $2k tank coming crashing down, or burning out the mover. You ever try the AT600 on a mover?
Another thing I was considering is a light rail, but with 50 lb lights I don't know how it will handle, don't want the $2k tank coming crashing down, or burning out the mover. You ever try the AT600 on a mover?
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
3 will work. I used 3 last run...this run I have the equivalent of 4. 3 with one in the center on a mover would be great.
I havent checked on the blues in a while. They used to be 450nm...which is the same as the whites peak. But I do remember them trying to get a low nm blue...like 440nm, which could be worth it in a veg light. If so, then it's honestly up to you. Apache has asked me about blue white for veg...I can't tell the difference so I go all whites. I could be missing out. I basically have done no official testing on veg...just used what we had when it came to veg. Now I am set on what I have and they whites work great. I even veg with the R2 with no complaints. But a deeper blue might have something
I havent checked on the blues in a while. They used to be 450nm...which is the same as the whites peak. But I do remember them trying to get a low nm blue...like 440nm, which could be worth it in a veg light. If so, then it's honestly up to you. Apache has asked me about blue white for veg...I can't tell the difference so I go all whites. I could be missing out. I basically have done no official testing on veg...just used what we had when it came to veg. Now I am set on what I have and they whites work great. I even veg with the R2 with no complaints. But a deeper blue might have something
bilbo182
Active Member
I got sent a link for this 10w/6w Lighthouse Hydro ION 8 1546w FSF LED Grow Light with UVB beast from a new guy on AFN asking if he could use it in his 2mx1.0mx1.0m tent.
I'm no expert at all but I thought it might be a bit much for anything other than a commercial grow?
SOMEBEECH
Well-Known Member
And you need to come here and trash his thread and inform the ones that know what they have read....This?
WHY?
bilbo182
Active Member
Some kind of low self esteem issue and not able to believe he's ever wrong. That and a small penis make him what he is.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I think I will make a new thread soon. Thinking about going to the grow journal section in the name of led's. I'm still up the air if anyone has an opinion on that.
In the mean time here is a little update...
In the mean time here is a little update...
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
If you taken It out of the led section I will follow, not a forum snob lol. But be prepared for them to not not play as nice as us lol. Think about all the douches that have tools that have rolled through this thread. Will follow your grows any ways tho
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Rollitup mobile app
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Rollitup mobile app
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
This shit is what I am referring to. If you can handle this more often go for it, just dont wanna see you run off riu cus of dbags.
Guess I just have a thin skin is all and would hate this shit lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Rollitup mobile app
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Hmmmmm...
Weird...
The overall wattage used per fixture is one-third that of high-pressure sodium (325 vs, 1,000 watts).
The heat generated by the LED fixtures is more than four times less than traditional lamps. LED values 800 btus/hr per device were quoted by the manufacturer, Novato, Calif.-based LumiGrow (www.lumigrow.com), vs. the 3,800 btus/hr for each high-pressure sodium device.
http://www.greenhousemag.com/gm0414-greenhouse-LED-conversion.aspx
Weird...
The overall wattage used per fixture is one-third that of high-pressure sodium (325 vs, 1,000 watts).
The heat generated by the LED fixtures is more than four times less than traditional lamps. LED values 800 btus/hr per device were quoted by the manufacturer, Novato, Calif.-based LumiGrow (www.lumigrow.com), vs. the 3,800 btus/hr for each high-pressure sodium device.
http://www.greenhousemag.com/gm0414-greenhouse-LED-conversion.aspx
OutofLEDCloset
Well-Known Member
Great video. Go big. Down with the greedy haters!!