Are cars like the Tesla Model S the future?

beenthere said:
The federal government should stay out of the automobile business altogether.
Look what happened when they got into the solar business or buying GM, that cost the tax payers over $11billion in only five years.
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Good idea, then we might still have cars that blow up and burn the occupants when they are hit from the rear. Good idea,m then we still wouldn't have air bags and seat belts, tires could be sketchy and roll overs more predominant. No, the government should stay out of the auto industry, and we could still have vehicles that get 12 miles to the gallon - because "that is what consumers want" - right?

Conservatives tend so easily to accept what government has done to improve things, presuming that the "free market" took care of that. Short attention spans, short memories.
 
canndo said:
No, the government should stay out of the auto industry, and we could still have vehicles that get 12 miles to the gallon - because "that is what consumers want" - right?
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Consumers want the Volkswagen Rabbit back. 50+ MPG, ran forever, easy to work on, and cheap.

How has the Government improved on that?
 
canndo said:
Good idea, then we might still have cars that blow up and burn the occupants when they are hit from the rear. Good idea,m then we still wouldn't have air bags and seat belts, tires could be sketchy and roll overs more predominant. No, the government should stay out of the auto industry, and we could still have vehicles that get 12 miles to the gallon - because "that is what consumers want" - right?

Conservatives tend so easily to accept what government has done to improve things, presuming that the "free market" took care of that. Short attention spans, short memories.
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Airbags are for pussies anyway :)
 
canndo said:
Years ago I worked for Garrett Airresearch. they had a flywheel R&D program that worked well for trains. They would spin the wheel up with a small diesel engine and it would drive the train.

NO, you get no more energy out of the wheel than is put in, however, one cannot replenish energy to an internal combustion engine through braking, but you can with a flywheel - energy saved. The wheel stores energy at the mechanical level rather than at the chemical level - more efficient, the flywheel produces a minimum amount of waste energy in the form of heat - another plus.

But yes, more mass, more energy, while there is a flywheel in every internal combustion car it is as is stated, a way to even the rotation of the crankshaft. Flywheels are not practical in cars as cars are idle or not in use more time than they are and flywheels are not perfect energy storage devices.
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I never understood why the hybrid cars didn't end up more like this.....not the flywheel but instead of carrying and using two complete drive trains and motors it seems just a constant rpm (which can be tuned for max efficiency vs dynamic rpm motors) gas or whatever generator motor could just be the dedicated charger;-)
 
Dr Kynes said:
flywheels use inertia to stabilize engines and smooth the operation of the transmission, they are NOT a solution to fuel or energy needs.
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Ummm.... that's not entirely true. While they are used in tranmissions, you can easily store energy in, and extract energy from, flywheels. And yes, you can use them to power vehicles. This was pointed out by another member, and the original quote I posted regarding the gyrobus specifically refers to vehicles powered by flywheels.

the copy/paste above is not talking about flywheels powering the vehicles, but rather, giving smooth variations in speed. this job is handled by a complex and expensive computerized power distribution system using electrical resistance throttling in the chevy volt, and a few other electric cars but it is NOT the source of the power. it merely provides a smoother ride and better speed control.
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That is one type of flywheel.

THATS why flywheels are being experimented with, not as a power source.

Protip: making a flywheel lighter is counter productive since they operate on inertia. less mass means less inertia
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Again, not entirely true. If you read a little deeper into the article I posted, or read this you'll see the information regarding powering vehicles you seek. Also, KERS systems in F1 and other various super-cars use flywheels to gather energy during braking and use it to aid in acceleration.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
You will have to look far and wide to find a better combination of stupidity, complete incognizance that the stupidity is theirs, while exhibiting smugness and condescension during said stupidity. Harkens back to the UncleBuck missing zeros debacle of 2013.

These two geniuses have cracked the perpetual motion problem, right here in front of us. Flywheels, who fucking knew?
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Yep certified actor on the internet...world wide web is full of um...how could u ever be anything in life when ur on here 24/7??? Fuck off losers
 
smokegreenshlt said:
No vw parts are cheap
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Ain't that the truth....

I own a Mark V GTI... had to get a new mechatronics unit for my DSG.... good thing it was covered under my extended DSG warranty.... fucking unit was $1500 plus labour... and it's a 5.5 hour job to change it.

Oil change is $116. lol
 
Beefbisquit said:
Ain't that the truth....

I own a Mark V GTI... had to get a new mechatronics unit for my DSG.... good thing it was covered under my extended DSG warranty.... fucking unit was $1500 plus labour... and it's a 5.5 hour job to change it.

Oil change is $116. lol
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My point exactly. What kind of MPG do you get? How much did your car cost? What are the maintenance costs?


Compare those numbers with the Rabbit. You got screwed buying yours. Believe what you want though...



EDIT: If they were to build the exact Rabbit of the 70's now, you could replace the whole engine for $1500.
 
smokegreenshlt said:
Yep certified actor on the internet...world wide web is full of um...how could u ever be anything in life when ur on here 24/7??? Fuck off losers
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So, I'm an actor and Kynes is British? Your powers of postulation are of the same class as UB's grasp of basic math.
 
Can we talk?

Inductive strips to charge electric vehicles. Who pays? or will it be wealth redistribution? Induction wastes energy - like doc said, every converson of forms of energy depleates the original amount. my phone has inductive charging (is inductive the right term here?). It get hot. heat is energy, usually heat is wasted energy. Nice idea though.

centralized generation of energy. This is an excepton to the rule. lage plants that use heat in one form or another to generate electricity can recycle lost heat - cogeneration plants abound, recycling "lost" heat in for other purposes - heating homes through piped steam, capturing heat to rotate fans and generators. None of this is possible currently with combustion engine vehicles that only vent heat.

Methanol is not particularly energy dense, petroleum is much more so. we get a freebie with petrol, the energy it containes was collected by the sun a long time ago and it is a gift (with clauses, namely carbon and pollution). Not so with any other combustible fuel.

Hydrogen has a very small window of combustability, the mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is very narrow. The majority of cheap hydrogen however is derived from petroleum, cracking water is very energy expensive However, in order to have the energy density of gasoline, hydrogen has to be compressed to between 10,000 and 15,000 psi. This is doable but unpleasant. The cost in energy of 1. compression to that level and 2. moving a container strong enough (and thus heavy) to contain the pressure is a debit to the overall energy content - just as batteries are. This is to say nothing of liquid hydrogen where energy has to be expended to cool the gas to a liquid and then keep it at an ultra low temperature.

CNG has been and is being used with great success, regardless if the imbicility of the user, few accidents have occured, therefore it is viable.

fis no free lunch. Gasoline is pretty much the perfect medium of energy. It is light, it is liquid at normal temperatures, it is relatively safe and for now, fairly easy to harvest.

however, electricity can be harvested in a number of different ways, solar, geothermal, wave energy, wind, hydro, fission, salinity differentials. Most of these only work on mass scales. Even given the loss over transmission and storage, in the long run it will be more efficient than other forms.


Face it, gas is the best - and the worst.
 
kelly4 said:
How big of a 'watch' will I need to power my truck? Don't forget, it's carrying a wheeler and pulling a trailer.
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With thought like that, it's a shock anything is ever invented. I suppose you should leave the thinking to smart people.
 
kelly4 said:
They were 35 years ago, when Rabbits were being produced.

Are you going to tell me Prius parts are cheap and the work can be done in your garage?

How old are you, son?
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Ima master mechanic and have a degree in alternative energy ...and old enough to know, dad.
 
kelly4 said:
My point exactly. What kind of MPG do you get? How much did your car cost? What are the maintenance costs?
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VW's have higher build quality now than they did 30 years ago. There are more parts, much, much more power, and a ton of technology.

The car was $32,000, the maintenance costs are average, other than my Full synthetic oil top ups. I get an average of 9L/100km, I do about 85% city driving.


Compare those numbers with the Rabbit. You got screwed buying yours. Believe what you want though...
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I don't want a car with an 8 track, a 4 speed tranny, manual everything, and 89hp. I have a car with a dual clutch, 250hp, 280lbs/ft, navigation, and sat radio.



EDIT: If they were to build the exact Rabbit of the 70's now, you could replace the whole engine for $1500.
Click to expand...

There's probably a market for that too, but to state that people who want a newer vehicle are 'getting screwed' isn't very accurate. I love my car, and for any problems I've had with it the warranty has covered it.

You can keep your rabbit. ;)
 
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