Are My Plants On The Small Side?

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
Im growing 6 Purple Bubba Kush (seed from an LA Dispensary). From what I've read the strain is mainly Indica. They are 44 days old now and 5 out of the 6 are about 7-8 inches tall now. The last one had a transplanting accident and half it's roots got ripped off, so I realize that one is going to take a while to catch back up to the other.

They are under t8 ballasts with full spectrum lighting (half of the bulbs are 3000k and the others are 6500k) and 2 2700k CFL on the sides, 24/0 light schedule. Added a small desk fan for ventilation recently. The temps have been pretty consistent at 75-80 degree's and around 40% humidity.

So do you think that the plants are a little small for their age? We are waiting for them to get around a foot tall before flipping them over to 12/12.
 

stickyfingaz89

Well-Known Member
yes for 44 days they are on the small side but this is to be expected with CFLs how far from the plants are your lights?? any pics??
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
I use t8 flourescents and yes your plants are definatly on the very small side, these lights, especially mixed spectrum like yours, are perfect fo small plants and will grow up to 12 inches easily. Dont blame these flourescents as they are wicked for the veg stage and as good as any if placed side by side with no heat problems whatsoever. You must have other problems, shouldn't be fertilising in soil yet, maybe too small pot or overwatering. \pics would help!
 

stickyfingaz89

Well-Known Member
I use t8 flourescents and yes your plants are definatly on the very small side, these lights, especially mixed spectrum like yours, are perfect fo small plants and will grow up to 12 inches easily. Dont blame these flourescents as they are wicked for the veg stage and as good as any if placed side by side with no heat problems whatsoever. You must have other problems, shouldn't be fertilising in soil yet, maybe too small pot or overwatering. \pics would help!
no no no i wasnt dissing Flouro's I use a 400w (actual watts ) flouro propagation unit for veg!! i can veg nine plants for a few months with no real problems but the lights have to be kept close as you will know. I would say the lights are too far away, But then again they would stretch out to feck.. MMM hard one with out pic!!
 

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
I use t8 flourescents and yes your plants are definatly on the very small side, these lights, especially mixed spectrum like yours, are perfect fo small plants and will grow up to 12 inches easily. Dont blame these flourescents as they are wicked for the veg stage and as good as any if placed side by side with no heat problems whatsoever. You must have other problems, shouldn't be fertilising in soil yet, maybe too small pot or overwatering. \pics would help!
I haven't added any nutes to the soil yet. No heat problems, no humidity problems, I did see a couple of gnats 2 weeks ago, but I haven't seen anymore, no other pests, the waters ph is fine. Here are a couple pics. They just got watered not that long ago, so they are looking a little droopy.

The lights aren't as low as they look in the pics. The lights are about 2-3 inches above the plant tops, depending on the plant.



Edit: It isn't over water. I wait until the leafs all droop a little and the pot is light before I add any water, then I add enough water that it starts to drain out the bottom. They are currently in 3gal pots. Plenty of perlite in the soil (the soil is a mixture of MG Organics and Sta-Green Moisture Max)

I know people are going to say it has to do with the MG soil, but I know it doesn't. The MG soil was only added recently and they actually started growing better once I added the MG.
 

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
The first picture has 10 nodes on it and the 2nd and 3rd pics have 9 nodes on them. The second and third pic are the same plant. The second and third plant's bottom 2 nodes have some nice off shoots growing out that are almost bigger than the original branches lol.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Yo dude they look great, think i had a picture in my head of smaller plants, look really great too, nice and green. Probably need ferts in a few weeks but not at the moment. MG soil is great to grow in but just remember every watering activates the slow release nutrients so you have to be carefull with the watering and any additional nutes. Waiting till the leaves start to wilt is the best way to avoid overwatering imho and on smaller plants i only water the soil round the plant not the whole pot till runoff.

NOW although it will always be an argument i would like to clarify the HPS,MH against flourescents debate so bear with me! Flourescents match and out perform hps/mh within the first ten to twelve inches so long as you have a comparitive amount of flourescent to the hps/mh. Now it is easier to mix the light spectrum with flourescents and their light spectrum is more accurate than hps and mh so you will benifit here. What i am saying is that they match the sun better for light quality and not so much of the unused spectrums of light than hps and mh but their light penetration drops of severly after a short distance. People say use them for small grows but i would say they are better for short plants wheras mh/hps is better for taller plants. I could probably yeild more from a flourescent grow with lowryders than with hps/mh provided i had a decent amount of flourescents. You cant get mh/hps that close to plants except with a cool tube of some serious ventilation so light is wasted here too. Flourescents are pound for pound more efficient and cost saving for some grows but these are plants with a very short veg time and started flowering after a month or twelve inches, of course they are best suited for the veg room but you can flower with them too and especially auto flowering strains. Ok so bigger grows and the hps and mh out perform in wattage and light penetration all day long.

I'm not gona say one is better than the other when it comes to t8 and t5 size strip light flourescents and hps/mh but that they both have their distinct advantages so please don't argue as its like saying hydro is better than soil, it really depends on how you want to grow as both yeild amazing results.

Now we come to the cfls which are seriously lacking, here hps/mh not only hands down wins but is in a league of its own. Small 18w/24w cfls that claim they are the same as a 100wat bulb (which is a standard bayonet home bulb available in any supermarket or hardware shop) that is Hps i think. These claims are based on the physics that make the flourescent T8/T5bulbs so damn good and powerful! What a crock of sh!t these cfls are, mis-sold and lies, yer they will grow a plant but that plant will seriously suck, if you really have to use these then ok but you will never get a good yeild for the electricity you need. I know what i'm talking about here as i run the big daddies of cfls, the 250 watt version and the 200 watt version side by side, one red one blue in my flowering room and use the best make envirolight. 450 watts of envirolight cfls in a 70cm by 70cm by 1.2m tall and with 8 plants underneath. Now i get good yeilds and keep it perpetual to maximise yeilds but my mate had a 250hps and it was double the yeild of mine with only a week or two more veg.

Verdict on HPS and MH against T5 and T8 mixed spectrum flourescents are that they are as good as each other its just the type of grow that will make one better than the other. Obviously in veg the T8 and T5 is a little better than the HPS/MH due to the plants being smaller/shorter and the HPS/MH are slightly better than the T8's/T5's in the flowering room where good light penetration is needed due to tall plants and the fact that they are available in the higher wattage models such as the 600/100 watts.
Verdict on CFLs is that they have a long way to go till they are anywhere as good as T8's/T5's flourescents and the HPS/MH. They use a clever marketing to dupe you into thinking they are effective although i love my big wattage CFLs and they are the best solution for 100% flourescent light grow.

Overall its what you grow and how you grow although i know that 5x18w cfls will fail badly, maybe you'd grow a half ounce max in like three four months, good luck to you ( i appreciate that some do it this way to avoid the high price of the other lights! well 18w strip light flourescent fixtures are available everywhere at very cheap prices, you probably already got them in your homes or offices and will grow a lot more than one 18w flourescent).

Anyway since this guys plants look great and he obviously was just panicking maybe we should turn this thread into an HPS/MH debate instead till he gets some real problems!lol! And i was in no way implying that flourescent or hps/mh was better than the other in my earlier posts so dont think i really got an opinion. I do like the debate as to wether the the cost of electricity would be higher for HPS/MH or T5'/T8 flourescents to produce the same yeild in the same time, that might be the decider as to wether HPS/MH is actually the best over T5/T8 flourescents. Thanks.Lolol
 

stickyfingaz89

Well-Known Member
a 600 watt super hps emits 90,000 lumens a 300 watt cfl gives of 20,000 a 300watt cfl is still to hot to have it within 6 inches of a plant, when you work out that light decreases in power by 50% by foot it has to travel, this means at 6 inches under a 300watt cfl there is 15,000 lumens available to the top of the plant, at 12 inches under a 600 watt hps there is 45,000 lumens available. whne we work at 12 inces under a cfl there is 10,000 lumens 24 inches under a hps lamp there would be 22,500 lumens available. With aircooling i can get a 600watt super hps 6 inches off the tops of my plants!! when math is applied it is easy to see CFLs dont hold a candle to HPS!!
 

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
Kinggrow1 thanks for the info! wow, lots of it lol. I am not to worried about the differences between HPS, HID, CFL, T8, T5's. I have a T8 set up and can't afford a HID or HPS set up right now. Also im growing in a closet so a powerful HPS might be a little much lol.

Also I am LST my plants to get more lights to them, since I am using t8's and the light doesn't penetrate to the lower leaves well.

Everyone can debate lighting in here if they so choose, but I have my set up and im happy with it :-D
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Bamfrivet those t8's will give great yeilds but as you find out you have to keep plants short, the more you add the more angles of light they give and the better penetration, up to a certain level.
Stickyfingaz you are spot on with the cfls, they suck, i still can't use hps to flower with so cfls are the second best choice, cfls are still crap compared to t8/t5 flourescents but the high wattage cfls do give good light penetration over t8's which is why i go for them.

Dont get me wrong guys if i could afford it and had the space and place to do the grow i really wanted it would be straight hps all the way through flowering, shame i can't. Post more pics of those plants dude, lets see how they are doing and your flowering room, cheers.
 

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
im actually just tieing them down right now. and im adding a 3rd t8 ballast that I haven't even taken out of the box. I was waiting until they got bigger and I had some ventilation to deal with the extra heat it'll put off. I'll take some pics when im done
 

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
Here is the plant from the first picture now that it's tied down



And this is the second one after it's tied down

 

KawiZZR

Active Member
Hey bam, nice job on the LST plants look good so far. Not sure if you've done LST before but remember to continue tying the plants down through the initial stretch in flower. I'll be sticking around to see this through, if you have any questions I can try to help or find someone who can.

King, how much do you normally get per plant using that method? And don't hate on the tiny CFLs, I love them for veg as you can simply start with a single bulb over a plant and add more as necessary, saving a bit on power and helping the bulbs last longer.

sticky, do you experience any bleaching when keeping the 600 only 6" from the tops? Also, doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of it? I feel like keeping the bulb so close to the plants would greatly reduce the coverage area. Haha if someone keeps a CFL a foot above their plant they're doing something wrong.
 

stickyfingaz89

Well-Known Member
Kinggrow1 thanks for the info! wow, lots of it lol. I am not to worried about the differences between HPS, HID, CFL, T8, T5's. I have a T8 set up and can't afford a HID or HPS set up right now. Also im growing in a closet so a powerful HPS might be a little much lol.

Also I am LST my plants to get more lights to them, since I am using t8's and the light doesn't penetrate to the lower leaves well.

Everyone can debate lighting in here if they so choose, but I have my set up and im happy with it :-D
nicley put, As log as your plants ae happy and i can see they are thats all that matters!!
 

stickyfingaz89

Well-Known Member
Hey bam, nice job on the LST plants look good so far. Not sure if you've done LST before but remember to continue tying the plants down through the initial stretch in flower. I'll be sticking around to see this through, if you have any questions I can try to help or find someone who can.

King, how much do you normally get per plant using that method? And don't hate on the tiny CFLs, I love them for veg as you can simply start with a single bulb over a plant and add more as necessary, saving a bit on power and helping the bulbs last longer.

sticky, do you experience any bleaching when keeping the 600 only 6" from the tops? Also, doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of it? I feel like keeping the bulb so close to the plants would greatly reduce the coverage area. Haha if someone keeps a CFL a foot above their plant they're doing something wrong.
Yeah i find the top leaves do get bleached, but it dosnt do them any harm the buds are so tight and compact that i dont lose the predicted 70% less drying weight more around the 50% mark. spread is slightly lost but i have big ass reflectors that i can fit 9 plants under easy with out losing much!!
 

stickyfingaz89

Well-Known Member
Yeah i find the top leaves do get bleached, but it dosnt do them any harm the buds are so tight and compact that i dont lose the predicted 70% less drying weight more around the 50% mark. spread is slightly lost but i have big ass reflectors that i can fit 9 plants under easy with out losing much!!
check out my thread to see what i mean, i use a Flouro unit for veg and 600s for flower!!
 
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