Auto fizzle

An experienced grower facing my first auto's season; Sprout, no problem, pops up out of soil, then stalls & dies. Never gets to true leaves, it just stalls and dies. Two suppliers. Seedlings placed in Mondi propagator on a seedling heat mat in mix of Foxfarm/Bu's Blend and perlite 33% each left in a shady spot till true leaves appear then progressively more direct sun. Under the misted dome at night, opened for breeze during day. Works fine for my photo period plants. Best auto was 16" tall at harvest BFD! What can be shocking them to death? (So. Cal.) so temps should be fine, especially with the heat mat keeping soil temp up at night. Checked and adjusted several times a day for moisture/temp/exposure. Two of twenty made it to harvest and then hardly worth it. Does that putting seed directly into final container at sprout really work? I'm afraid I'm shocking them at transplant. These seem SO finicky and weak. I think combo of weak seeds and something else???? Never wasted so much time growing before for such a little result. Only done to help bolster a season delayed by weak poor photo period seeds of which only one in ten made it to harvest (though it's a beauty). Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Does the outdoor sprout really work?? I typically get better than 85% from seed to harvest on my photo's. What is shocking these to death or are they just bad weak seeds?

Autos make pretty pictures but the final product lacks

I'd think using a heat mat would cause more root issues then it would solve.

Sowing them straight into their final containers work, but I like to do pot-in-pot transplanting method for autos. No shock form tansplanting and no delay from a seed starting in a large container.

Gdub51 said:

An experienced grower facing my first auto's season; Sprout, no problem, pops up out of soil, then stalls & dies. Never gets to true leaves, it just stalls and dies. Two suppliers. Seedlings placed in Mondi propagator on a seedling heat mat in mix of Foxfarm/Bu's Blend and perlite 33% each left in a shady spot till true leaves appear then progressively more direct sun. Under the misted dome at night, opened for breeze during day. Works fine for my photo period plants. Best auto was 16" tall at harvest BFD! What can be shocking them to death? (So. Cal.) so temps should be fine, especially with the heat mat keeping soil temp up at night. Checked and adjusted several times a day for moisture/temp/exposure. Two of twenty made it to harvest and then hardly worth it. Does that putting seed directly into final container at sprout really work? I'm afraid I'm shocking them at transplant. These seem SO finicky and weak. I think combo of weak seeds and something else???? Never wasted so much time growing before for such a little result. Only done to help bolster a season delayed by weak poor photo period seeds of which only one in ten made it to harvest (though it's a beauty). Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Does the outdoor sprout really work?? I typically get better than 85% from seed to harvest on my photo's. What is shocking these to death or are they just bad weak seeds?

Click to expand...

Have you tried putting the cracked seeds in Biobizz Light? I've a few days left on my firstt auto a Purple Punch Auto & I put All Mix in the bottom & light on top & she is cruising!

Gdub51 said:

An experienced grower facing my first auto's season; Sprout, no problem, pops up out of soil, then stalls & dies. Never gets to true leaves, it just stalls and dies. Two suppliers. Seedlings placed in Mondi propagator on a seedling heat mat in mix of Foxfarm/Bu's Blend and perlite 33% each left in a shady spot till true leaves appear then progressively more direct sun. Under the misted dome at night, opened for breeze during day. Works fine for my photo period plants. Best auto was 16" tall at harvest BFD! What can be shocking them to death? (So. Cal.) so temps should be fine, especially with the heat mat keeping soil temp up at night. Checked and adjusted several times a day for moisture/temp/exposure. Two of twenty made it to harvest and then hardly worth it. Does that putting seed directly into final container at sprout really work? I'm afraid I'm shocking them at transplant. These seem SO finicky and weak. I think combo of weak seeds and something else???? Never wasted so much time growing before for such a little result. Only done to help bolster a season delayed by weak poor photo period seeds of which only one in ten made it to harvest (though it's a beauty). Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Does the outdoor sprout really work?? I typically get better than 85% from seed to harvest on my photo's. What is shocking these to death or are they just bad weak seeds?

Click to expand...

I would assume the transplanting has something to do with it. Are you letting the root twist or bend at all before transplant? Could be lighting or many issues honestly

waytoofaded said:

Sowing them straight into their final containers work, but I like to do pot-in-pot transplanting method for autos. No shock form tansplanting and no delay from a seed starting in a large container.

Click to expand...

I had the same idea and found a cage marketed for that purpose. The idea being that the roots grow thru the cage and are relatively protected during transplanting. They didn't come with a "female" cup, but a red "jiffy" cup fit it fine. I'll let you know how it works. I'll try it on photo's next season. Doesn't seen any outdoor growers care for auto's. I was left with no option due to seed prob's. 1st photo shows dead sprouts after weeks of babying. I'm thinking my left over super soil was too hot for them?? It had not beenThe other two show the one White Widow left over seed that took. Here it is mid Oct. and the tricomes are still all white (zoom in) Even with the 3.21 start, the long cold sunless spring delayed this girls maturation. Needs at least another two weeks for 30% amber tricomes, the way I like it. Funny how when the heat finally did arrive, it fisted up some of the cola's. Thickest I've ever grown. A six inch branch broke off and it weighed over an ounce! I'll let you know how (if ever) this one works out.

andy s said:

I would assume the transplanting has something to do with it. Are you letting the root twist or bend at all before transplant? Could be lighting or many issues honestly

Click to expand...

No, I use a no spring tweezer tool to handle seeds for no pressure and seedlings foot is gently placed down, any curve is it's own problem to correct. Like I said they mostly cracked then broke ground THEN fizzled out. See pic above

Gdub51 said:

An experienced grower facing my first auto's season; Sprout, no problem, pops up out of soil, then stalls & dies. Never gets to true leaves, it just stalls and dies. Two suppliers. Seedlings placed in Mondi propagator on a seedling heat mat in mix of Foxfarm/Bu's Blend and perlite 33% each left in a shady spot till true leaves appear then progressively more direct sun. Under the misted dome at night, opened for breeze during day. Works fine for my photo period plants. Best auto was 16" tall at harvest BFD! What can be shocking them to death? (So. Cal.) so temps should be fine, especially with the heat mat keeping soil temp up at night. Checked and adjusted several times a day for moisture/temp/exposure. Two of twenty made it to harvest and then hardly worth it. Does that putting seed directly into final container at sprout really work? I'm afraid I'm shocking them at transplant. These seem SO finicky and weak. I think combo of weak seeds and something else???? Never wasted so much time growing before for such a little result. Only done to help bolster a season delayed by weak poor photo period seeds of which only one in ten made it to harvest (though it's a beauty). Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Does the outdoor sprout really work?? I typically get better than 85% from seed to harvest on my photo's. What is shocking these to death or are they just bad weak seeds?

Click to expand...

Hey Gdub
Don't give up on the auto's just yet..

As a Canadian (Alberta), I have had to look at alternatives to squeeze out a decent harvest due to our limited growing season, and thus have been breeding some myself..Buying a few high end feminized Super-Auto's Gg4 (Expert seeds) and Tangiematic (Fast Buds)..Then crossing them with some higher end photoperiod regular seeds for a couple generations to nail down that small percentage of Auto offspring in the F2's to continue the line of Autoflowers which are now regular seeds instead of feminized.

You can produce decent herb from Auto's..It just depends on your expectations...Auto can produce the same quality of herb as a photoperiod, but will generally fall short on volume..That said, you still can squawk out 3-4 ozs/ plant quite easily depending on where you live...and 20%+ THC. You need sunlight hours (key), nutrients, genetics, proper maintainence and a little luck..but for many of us here in Canada with a shorter grow season..It's a combination that works..You just need a few more plants

You've given us a quick n' dirty of your grow...I'm guessing your medium was too wet and fungus got them..just a guess..3 things I would point out. First, light...To start with you should be on a 20-4 light cycle..at a
Minimum..remember autos have Ruderalis in them and do not follow the same cycle as photo's..some people even suggest keeping Auto's on 24 hr straight light for the first month as that is exactly the way autos are intended to grow...Hard and Fast! Get that structure built.. (Mine are generally around a meter tall) Second, keeping that grow dome on can often provide too much humidity; giving fungus the opportunity to silently choke off the plant..I tend to err, keeping the soil drier.Third..Do not transplant your autos..If you do, it's a crap shoot, some will be slightly stunted some won't..they are finicky..Keeping in mind they will be spitting out flowers in 30-45 days so every day of vegetation counts. ( I use 2-5 gal pots..if you bury pots in garden when you take outside be sure to drill additional holes in side that will be below soil surface) Third, soil, when I plant I will sometimes use two different types of soils..in a two gallon pail..I'll fill it with a decent nutrient rich soil..In the center, where I plant the seed, I will use a basic soil and add a little perlite to make sure it has proper aeration while the seed germinates..Too much humidity in any seedling can rot out..
Otherwise, pretty much the same ball game as photos..You can do a little selective defoliation just before it starts to flower..but after that, be very selective when removing leaves..one or two here or there.

Best of luck...

Toad

Thanks Toad for the considered reply. Let me address issues one at a time. Firstly: it's important for anyone responding to remember I'm growing outdoors. I'm in Southern California in what's known as a Mediterranean climate. I just got new 20 gallon pots that are 3' tall (I've found roots want to grow DOWN so I use a tall pot) See pic. Medium; I also used a no additive soil (FF) with added perlite for better drainage for sprouts so I don't think fungus. LIGHT; I gave 24 7 T5HO flo for a week then as usual I start taking the Mondi propagator outside without the top for sprouts to catch a little sun and breeze. As well as eliminate any fungus. At this point all sprouts from TSSC seeds stopped growing (in 3 different attempts). Then got more GG4 auto's from Grower's Choice Seeds and they all failed as well. OK top picture is to prove my point, EG the one White Widow that sprouted (left over photoperiod seeds from ILGM ) That I do know what I'm doing. #2307 shows it's top cola at full flower, 2399 shows this cola a week b4 harvest (IT'S 3.7" WIDE) 2412: I wanted to check my soil so I threw some snap pea seeds into it and BAM! #2363 shows what virtually all the auto sprouts looked like at a few days...they ALL stalled and died at this point. I'm just so glad my one White Widow turned out to be such a champ (over a pound yield) and so so sticky! My best ever for medicinal value in the same soil that 10 auto's stalled and died as shown. So I'm still at a loss accept for the transplant issue which, if I ever try auto's again, I will try the sprouting cage I found, described above, to see if it works. Actually TSSC and Growers
Choice Seeds should be sending me replacements under the usual 80% guarantee though they have balked in response to my emails so far. So as a side note folks; a bad cloud over these two seed companies until they made good.

Gdub51 said:

Thanks Toad for the considered reply. Let me address issues one at a time. Firstly: it's important for anyone responding to remember I'm growing outdoors. I'm in Southern California in what's known as a Mediterranean climate. I just got new 20 gallon pots that are 3' tall (I've found roots want to grow DOWN so I use a tall pot) See pic. Medium; I also used a no additive soil (FF) with added perlite for better drainage for sprouts so I don't think fungus. LIGHT; I gave 24 7 T5HO flo for a week then as usual I start taking the Mondi propagator outside without the top for sprouts to catch a little sun and breeze. As well as eliminate any fungus. At this point all sprouts from TSSC seeds stopped growing (in 3 different attempts). Then got more GG4 auto's from Grower's Choice Seeds and they all failed as well. OK top picture is to prove my point, EG the one White Widow that sprouted (left over photoperiod seeds from ILGM ) That I do know what I'm doing. #2307 shows it's top cola at full flower, 2399 shows this cola a week b4 harvest (IT'S 3.7" WIDE) 2412: I wanted to check my soil so I threw some snap pea seeds into it and BAM! #2363 shows what virtually all the auto sprouts looked like at a few days...they ALL stalled and died at this point. I'm just so glad my one White Widow turned out to be such a champ (over a pound yield) and so so sticky! My best ever for medicinal value in the same soil that 10 auto's stalled and died as shown. So I'm still at a loss accept for the transplant issue which, if I ever try auto's again, I will try the sprouting cage I found, described above, to see if it works. Actually TSSC and Growers
Choice Seeds should be sending me replacements under the usual 80% guarantee though they have balked in response to my emails so far. So as a side note folks; a bad cloud over these two seed companies until they made good.

Click to expand...

2 things I have learned regarding pots
One is a tall pot is more likely to flip over with the lightest of wind
Two a larger area produces bigger plants
So for me I shy away from the tall ones and focus on short and stout

Hey Gdub..
Yeah, I planted a White Widow (photoperiod) last year..very nice Strain..I'll have to track that one down again soon

Anyway..

Hmm ..few things..I'm curious, you live in a prime area to grow outside, what's the motivation to grow autos instead? Just the light cycles alone might limit how happy you are with Autos..They are meant to have 18+ hours a day..I do 20 hrs of light and I even know others they keep the gas pedal on with 24 hrs.( for indoor)

I'm guessing if you had that many beans crap out on you; you were given old stock..You're viability should have been better. Especially when the one outlier WW did fine

Regards,
Toad

PS..You won't need 20gal pots for autos..5-10 gal should easily suffice

a couple more of my beauty, I can't resist... 2404 was a few days from starting harvest. 2372 is the top cola nearing harvest. 2415 is the second harvest from this plant, the first was just as big. AND 2410 shows what's still ripening as of today after taking two rounds of harvesting. I harvest late, for 33% amber or rose-colored trichomes for higher CBN. 2413 shows the one plant that grew some of all the TSSC and Growers Choice seeds. It was one of the unknown free seeds, now flowering at 10" tall! Bottom line: I'm so happy for the result of this one plant it makes the rest of the fiasco easier to digest. Especially after sampling the first of the W

Herb & Suds said:

2 things I have learned regarding pots
One is a tall pot is more likely to flip over with the lightest of wind
Two a larger area produces bigger plants
So for me I shy away from the tall ones and focus on short and stout

Click to expand...

My results prove otherwise. The snap peas in my pics here show the old pots, short and wide. Cannabis roots hit the bottom and then moved out. Look at the shape of the roots in nature, they go down to conserve water/find more. I'm hip to the wind. Santa Ana's produce wind storms with 50mph gusts. I take my plants in if it gets too rough but even on roller dollies I've never had one tip over in the wind. I move them to a still spot. The tall pot also conserves water and I think the longer period between waterings that resulted helped enrich the outcome. Best new implemented idea of the season: "FEED THE SOIL NOT THE PLANT" school of thought, feeding with brewed live teas seems to have kept pests away for the most part and no diseases at all. I did get some cabbage loopers as usual but my friend Pietro the Praying Mantiss (see pic 2333) picked off those like pop corn at a thriller! Try it! You'll like it!

Great snaps..Thanks for sharing.
I certainly understand your point with the larger pots..I' m still perplexed as to the problem with the seeds

MrToad69 said:

Hey Gdub..
Yeah, I planted a White Widow (photoperiod) last year..very nice Strain..I'll have to track that one down again soon

Anyway..

Hmm ..few things..I'm curious, you live in a prime area to grow outside, what's the motivation to grow autos instead? Just the light cycles alone might limit how happy you are with Autos..They are meant to have 18+ hours a day..I do 20 hrs of light and I even know others they keep the gas pedal on with 24 hrs.( for indoor)

I'm guessing if you had that many beans crap out on you; you were given old stock..You're viability should have been better. Especially when the one outlier WW did fine

Regards,
Toad

PS..You won't need 20gal pots for autos..5-10 gal should easily suffice

Click to expand...

I came to autos out of necessity when all photo period seeds had failed as well (accepting for the one shown) and I was out of time for photo seeds. I was trying to "fill out" my prescription and feeling like I would run short and have to buy retail this year. Thankfully, the one WW is prolific! I've taken two harvests off of it already (I harvest in stages for ripeness) each over 8oz's and as you can see there is at least 12 if not 14 oz's still on her, ripening in our wonderful SC sunshine. So the auto's were out of panic to get some product this season. I'd like to get proficient with autos for filling when when needed, experiments and just some gardening to do in the off season. I give away what I can't use. It makes for good tips. I've never met a service provider that didn't appreciate getting a free 1/4 oz even if as in the case of my mail girl, she doesn't use it but likes to give it to her mom for her arthritis. Just Spreading the Joy! Happy Harvest to all of you.