aw shit here we go....... not again. HELP! i cant have ANOTHER PLANT DIE ON ME!

Cannabisworks

Active Member
heres a bit to chew on from a gov agri info. not stoner info...


Soil pH | Nitrogen | Phosphorus | Potassium | Sulfur | Micronutrients Farmers frequently ask, "What effect does pH have on availability of nutrients in the soil?" There is no simple answer to this question, since the effects of pH are complex and vary with different nutrients. However, some broad generalizations are useful to keep in mind when making nutrient management decisions.
Soil pH
The first order of business is a quick review of pH and the associated terminology. Soil pH or soil reaction is an indication of the acidity or alkalinity of soil and is measured in pH units. The pH scale goes from 0 to 14 with pH 7 as the neutral point. As the amount of hydrogen ions in the soil increases, the soil pH decreases, thus becoming more acidic. From pH 7 to 0, the soil is increasingly more acidic, and from pH 7 to 14, the soil is increasingly more alkaline or basic.
Using a strict chemical definition, pH is the negative log of hydrogen (H+ ) activity in an aqueous solution. The point to remember from the chemical definition is that pH values are reported on a negative log scale. So, a 1 unit change in the pH value signifies a 10-fold change in the actual activity of H+, and the activity increases as the pH value decreases.
To put this into perspective, a soil pH of 6 has 10 times more hydrogen ions than a soil with a pH of 7, and a soil with a pH of 5 has 100 times more hydrogen ions than a soil with a pH of 7. Activity increases as the pH value decreases.
Agronomists generally use soil pH as measured in a 2:1 water-to-soil mixture as an index of a soil's acidity or alkalinity. In a soil test report, pH is often reported with descriptive modifier as shown in Table 1.



Nitrogen One of the key soil nutrients is nitrogen (N). Plants can take up N in the ammonium (NH4+) or nitrate (N03-) form. At pH's near neutral (pH 7), the microbial conversion of NH4+ to nitrate (nitrification) is rapid, and crops generally take up nitrate. In acid soils (pH < 6), nitrification is slow, and plants with the ability to take up NH4+ may have an advantage.
Soil pH also plays an important role in volatization losses. Ammonium in the soil solution exists in equilibrium with ammonia gas (NH3). The equilibrium is strongly pH dependent. The difference between NH3 and NH4+ is a H+. For example, if NH4+ were applied to a soil at pH 7, the equilibrium condition would be 99% NH4+ and 1% NH3. At pH 8, approximately 10% would exist as NH3.
This means that a fertilizer like urea (46-0-0) is generally subject to higher losses at higher pH. But it does not mean that losses at pH 7 will be 1% or less. The equilibrium is dynamic. As soon as a molecule of NH3 escapes the soil, a molecule of NH4+ converts to NH3 to maintain the equilibrium.
There are other factors such as soil moisture, temperature, texture and cation exchange capacity that can affect volatilization. So pH is not the whole story.
The important point to remember is that under conditions of low soil moisture or poor incorporation, volatilization loss can be considerable even at pH values as low as 5.5.
Soil pH is also an important factor in the N nutrition of legumes. The survival and activity of Rhizobium, the bacteria responsible for N fixation in association with legumes, declines as soil acidity increases. This is the particular concern when attempting to grow alfalfa on soils with pH below 6.
Phosphorus
The form and availability of soil phosphorus (P) is also highly pH dependent. Plants take up soluble P from the soil solution, but this pool tends to be extremely low, often less than 1 lb/ac.
The limited solubility of P relates to its tendency to form a wide range of stable minerals in soil. Under alkaline soil conditions, P fertilizers such as mono-ammonium phosphate (11-55-0) generally form more stable (less soluble) minerals through reactions with calcium (Ca).
Contrary to popular belief, the P in these Ca-P minerals will still contribute to crop P requirements. As plants remove P from the soil solution, the more soluble of the Ca-P minerals dissolve, and solution P levels are replenished. Greenhouse and field research has shown that over 90 per cent of the fertilizer P tied up this year in Ca-P minerals will still be available to crops in subsequent years.
The fate of added P in acidic soils is somewhat different as precipitation reactions occur with aluminum (A1) and iron (Fe). The tie-up of P in A1-P and Fe-P minerals under acidic conditions tends to be more permanent than in Ca-P minerals.
Potassium
The fixation of potassium (K) and entrapment at specific sites between clay layers tends to be lower under acid conditions. This situation is thought to be due to the presence of soluble aluminum that occupies the binding sites.
One would think that raising the pH through liming would increase fixation and reduce K availability; however, this is not the case, at least in the short term. Liming increases K availability, likely through the displacement of exchangeable K by Ca.
Sulfur
Sulfate (S042-) sulfur, the plant available form of S, is little affected by soil pH.
Micronutrients
The availability of the micronutrients manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), copper (Cu), zinc (Zn), and boron (B) tend to decrease as soil pH increases. The exact mechanisms responsible for reducing availability differ for each nutrient, but can include formation of low solubility compounds, greater retention by soil colloids (clays and organic matter) and conversion of soluble forms to ions that plants cannot absorb.
Molybdenum (Mo) behaves counter to the trend described above. Plant availability is lower under acid conditions.
Conclusion
So, soil pH does play a role in nutrient availability. Should you be concerned on your farm? Be more aware than concerned. Keep the pH factor in mind when planning nutrient management programs. Also, keep historical records of soil pH in your fields. Soils tend to acidify over time, particularly when large applications of NH4+ based fertilizers are used or there is a high proportion of legumes in the rotation.
Recent years have shown the pH decline occurring more rapidly in continuously cropped, direct-seeded land. On the other hand, seepage of alkaline salts can raise the pH above the optimum range. So, a soil with an optimum pH today may be too acid or alkaline a decade from now, depending on producer land management.
Prepared by:
Ross H. McKenzie
Research Scientist - Soil Fertility/Crop Nutrition
Telephone: (403) 381-5842
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Have you any proof of anything you say? Or are you just another "internets scientist"?

I suppose guerilla grows don't work without pHing either? Outdoor in your yard?

How many greenhouse growers adjust pH?

pH adjustment is for hydro, you can keep claiming to be this and that but my method is what actual growers use, not fake "internets scientists".
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
And dude but no offense, but you claim to be some mad scientist...but you can't even spell most of your words properly.
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
knowledge and bad eye have nothing to do with each other..im an oldish fuk. sorry for typos..now what...dept of agri is wrong to now??? if you knew more on this tipoc youd know there is a worlkd of diff in to outdoor. i tossed a couple out this summer for a joke and didnt even feed. didnt water. was fully green at harvest. so now we dont need food or water also???? my plant stayed green so i guess thats the factual info????..lol..ok

we test this crap in labs for potency and what she was lacking for foods./ and lab reports or machines dont lie on the bennefits of using pH in all mediums and food types. its not my lab stuff but i am buddies with the owner and see this all the time. im not trying to sell anything so why would i stear anyone wrong. im just vtrying to help people improve on what they already think its perfect
its these type of foru,ms that has caused all the untrue facts. you dont see anyone in horticultre ever say there is no bennefit to ph....,what is it for then.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Proper soil holds it pH around neutral...Iv said that a million times. You add nutes, it's gets slightly acidic, plant consumes nutes it drifts back up to around neutral.

So hold on, your an "older person" and you have a roommate? I call bullshit on you man, you're a one trick pony. Every other thread you've posted on all you've said is "pH this pH that" and you throw a copy and paste up.

You need to stop giving advice man, you're a fake and dont really know anything.

Messing with pH up and down do nothing in soil except upset soil pH balance.

If you're so smart why not just tell him to apply dolomite lime to his soil?
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
k roomy i mean as my bro living in top half of this house...wow...want details like phone and social ins number to....lol why is it you guys need to go to the personal stuff wehen you cant back your info. and i do know many older people having roomies...you dont get out much hey
still waiting for facts son..not going by your.....cuz i say so. its kids like yourself and others that missundertsand info and spread false info on the forums. i did say he could add lime. whats the matter you cant read eihter. wow. its not the pro choice but if he wants to do things sloppy and guess then go ahead. how much lime does he need. do you know this so he dosent make it to hi in ph/...???
you tell him to add something but ni measure to it...awesome info...just pour the bag in dood. its ok according this one, and when it burns the hell out of them id like to see the pic to show him what it can do.

i tossed that random fact base dph info off top of my head by hitting google..you know how to use that right. you must you found this site. so google me info that it says we dont need to ever use ph or there is no bennefit to it. till then your just spouting forum poo
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
It has instructions on the bag, and dolomite has a near neutral pH so it buffers the soil at near neutral, it can't cause the pH to rise higher than it is itself.

Do you actually know ANYTHING about what you're talking about?
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
it has insurction on how deff your medium is of lime????realy...wow new techy bag. and it says what a pot plant like for an amount right on the bag...wow. where you live that this topic is out in the open like that in reg stores. hell even our fully devoted to weed stuff has very little reff to what plant we grow.

have you ever had your product tested for its efficacy??..till then your guessing like most the other info i see on these sites. by the way if you use to much it will fry the roots. the more you add there higher the ph will be....and will go above 7. the lime its self is 7 but it will keep rising. your not getting ph or lime now at all
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
ok i get it...i just checked your other posts on the forum and every single one you argue that your right and everyoneelse is wrong...enjoy im done wasting my breath. your just a forum troll like i thought with no grow even. where the grow dood. ..do you even grow. your info here and elsewhere sure dont seem like it
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
No I only argue with bullshit, I posted a link to my last grow to back up what I'm saying too.

Dolomite lime is a BUFFER it doesn't swing pH up or down. It keeps it at neutral, I'm not gonna argue anymore, you keep telling people to buy pH pens and I'll just shut up trying to tell them the better, more natural, effortless way that proper experienced growers use.

I suppose this batch of 5ft tall perfectly green flowering AK48's are some kinda magic plants tho, cos I never adjust pH, just use tap water and add nutes to it when they need it.

I'm gonna guess that the nutrient companies who tell you to pH are the same ones that sell pH up and down tho ;)

EDIT: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/430687-ak-48-400w-hps-dr80-10.html yeah I don't grow at all... 12 ounces dry off 5 plants (not including ones that got a bit of mold).
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
nho dood ive worked for many nute co. and all say same thing. when you dont you use more food than is needed so youd think if it was a sales thimng they would say dont ph
do yourself a favour and try the lime then at any ratio in a mix and see what the run off is. throw 5 cups in 1 gal soil and 1 teaspoon in another and tell me what the result was and see if both read 7....good luck with that...lol i never said lime makes ph swing...i said there is a certain amount to use to do it right to maintain the soils buffering capabilities.
ah i see, your one of those that thinks guys can see potency and healtjh from a picture...send some in and well test it and show you the numbers.


you seem to only catch half the info. ive never said you must ph. i said it gets you an easier way to get the max potential of the plant. some are happy with mids or half assed as we can see here. or they just havent had the opotiunity to smoke meds from a pro grow. do a run with ph and one without and have it tested. once you do and see the bennefit i think you may rethink
and again i asked for fact based info backing your cliams. not your journal....lol do you know what fact based is?
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Well potency is determined by genetics and harvest time, so what exactly else would you use to determine if a plant is healthy? 14zips plus the odd few grams off a 600w HPS that's perfectly green at harvest with no diseases or other problems isn't a healthy plant?

So just answer me this: Nutrient burn and nutrient toxicity don't exist,is what you're saying? Cos if you say no youve no credibility to question anything I say.
 

obijohn

Well-Known Member
COULD be nute burn, although mine looked a bit different when I overfed. What it does look like is a PH issue. Last year I wasn't adjusting the PH when I fed, and the nutes were highly acidic, leaves looked similar to that. I started adjsuting and things improved dramatically
 

terrazas

Member
Honestly dude,ignore that tool, pH is a non-issue in soil if you're feeding properly and not overdoing it/using totally crap soil.

I'd give them some time to just establish themselves, as it's a fresh-ish clone it only needs light feedings. Ignore growth before "this point" right now and just wait a few days to see what the colour of the new growth is like.

Also on the point of over feeding...you DEFINATELY can over feed your plants. Just Google nutrient burn...it's when the plant uptakes too much nutrients, stores them in the leaves and intense lighting is magnified which causes burns. It does exist, please don't believe that you can't over feed.
You are just plain wrong, PH is an issue with soil. Your water should always be PHed no matter what medium you are using. If i chose not to check the ph of my water i would be giving my plants a ph of 8+, that's bad no matter what medium you are using. Adding nutrients to water with a ph of 8+ will not cause that water to go acidic, the water will still be at around 8, in my experience. That is way too high of ph to be giving cannabis, and it will in effect raise the ph of the soil.

And yes you can give your plant too much nutrients. It may not "overfeed" so to say, but having too much of a certain nutrient will cause lockout on other nutrients.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
So nutrient burn doesn't exist

Dear Jesus this forum is going more and more downhill...

Fine noobs, believe Cannabisworks every word, buy pH pens and spend ages adding acids and bases to your water. I'll just keep growing the less effort and more effective way. :)

Tis a fucking plant, give it what it wants and nothing more.
 

terrazas

Member
I didn't say it doesnt exist. Of course it does, and i dont believe for a second cannabisworks is giving seedlings full strength nutrients. But I am pretty sure the ph of the water your giving the plants matters.
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
i never said BURN didnt exist. but the burn isnt from the actual nutrients. those dont burn the plants leaves. to much food causes issues...yes. but not in a way your thinking or trying to explain.

what happens to ph in nutrients when we mix a week 1 dose. then a full feed dose. i think we all know the full dose will show a lower ph in most cases. ???right??.
so if a plant can only uptake what is needed for the rate of photosynthesus, then if there is more than what is needed, it sits in the medium, and we all see food can build up if not used right or at right amounts according to its age and growth. and the same thing happens under there as what i just explained on food mix strengths and ph reactions...it will drop in most cases. when ph drops a plant cant easily get at that food to eat it. each ellement in the nutrient bottles has its own ph to be best uptaken at. when a new bottle of nutrients is made at the co all these ellements need to be in set amounts so they dont supress or block other ellements and is all set by ph in the bottle to also be in a close range to most water sources for the consumer..not set in stone to not need final adjusting according to each persons different waters and mediums.


Harrekin, yes potency and the max potential of anything within the plant is set in stone by genetics. but, this dosent mean we can grow in any fassion to achieve it. or we would all end up with the same weed and looking plants. and we know we dont. thats a growers skill. and knowledge on how this whole things works, making a plant work to keep its ph correct in the medium on its own takes away from allowing her to easily reach her full potential. sometimes our foods are in certain ph amounts to our water and dose that there is little to no ph needed sometimes. but to say it does nothing had no factual basis to it

have you read the ph manifesto. good real. even for seasoned growers. some good some sales but exp will see the diff
 

Cannabisworks

Active Member
i didnt realize a 60 buck pen is such an expensive commitent to something we all love to improve on. there are many many nutes i bet you use i can show you the real source to and might kick your own ass for being conned by the companies to use. like any carbohydrate booster. go to 7-11 and grab the fake yellow sugar packs..its whats in it. exactly and only whats in them. plain sucrose. at 100x the cost
 
so i went to the hydro store yesterday and got some ready grow coco mix. its organic and ready to go. Even though the problem occurred before i put it in the soil i am hoping this will help. i took the rockwool out of the soil and realized it had barely rooted, the coco is supposed to be more airy and hold less moisture so im hoping this will get it established quickly. I dont think the coco has any nutes in it so im going to add some because when i flushed the rockwool last night the plant looks more yellow today. So i think it is a deficiency. The ready gro has humic acid in it to increase the uptake of nutrients and lower PH. So im going to add some grow / micro nutrients since i flushed the rockwool last night. I did mix a little soil in with the coco grow but it was like 15%. im hopin she evens out and the feeding helps.
 
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