Bail Out or Slush Fund?

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Bail Out or Slush Fund?

What do they say about history repeats? With four weeks left before the General Election of 2008, it's important to plan forward, but also to look back.

In the last few weeks of the 2004 campaign, while the Democratic party dithered over whether to pitch to Right or Left, George W. Bush pulled out every stop. For the affluent (and those aspiring to affluence) he promised more deregulation and tax cuts. For single issue theocratic types, he spouted stir-it-up talk about preserving straight white patriarchal elites. To those already drowning in a war economy with no safety net, W offered an appeal to primal instinct. At the level of advertising, tv and talk radio, the presidential race shrank to just one question: Who do you Trust? John Kerry – the flip flopper "girlie" man – or Bush, the-with-me-or-against me wartime president?

In this election like that one, the Right's ground troops were fed plenty of rhetoric. But Rove didn't rely on red meat alone. There was also cash. We've learned a lot about how GOP political operatives led by Rove politicized every tentacle of the federal government from the Defense Department to Justice. So it should come as no surprise to recall that in the weeks before the '04 election, Bush administration officials dispersed a mountain of government largesse in swing states. In the two weeks before Election Day, the administration announced $10 million for a church-based job training scheme in Jacksonville Florida, money for a long-awaited wildlife refuge in Minnesota and a national park in Colorado. Just days before the voting, the Bushies came up with $207 million to clean up drinking water in Columbus, Ohio.

In 2004, a government that was already in overdraft had plenty of money for pre-election favors. This year, there's more than $700 billion to dole out. We've been told the money could start being dispersed at any moment. Call me crazy, but it seems to me, with a bill that's packed with more than $100 billion in corporate and personal tax breaks, for among others the auto racing body NASCAR, there's a whole lot of fungible cash floating around. Pork may be the least of our worries. History suggests we should watch for buying votes.
 

mr.x007

Well-Known Member
Wait i still haven't came to understand is. WHY are there men sitting in prison for the Enron scandle. Witch IS EXACTly what these companies did. And they get bailed out??!?!?!? WTF McCain needs to point some fingers. Say some names. If he wants any chance in this election. I don't agree with half of what he says. but atleast hes not trying to bring socialism to this country. Witch by the way HAS NOT worked ANY where!!!

People are so ignorant
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Sweden would disagree with you. They socialized their banks, similar to what we are doing. Because they acted quickly, they avoided a complete meltdown, and made a nice profit for their taxpayers when they later sold the assets (mainly banks) that they had temporarily socialized as an emergency measure. I believe the profit they made for their taxpayers by doing so exceeded 500% -- for every buck their taxpayers invested, they made five bucks in profit on the back end, five years later.

And what's happened here is not like Enron. What's happened this time is that there were no regulations imposed on the securities and CDS markets, so the banks went crazy with the lack of rules. When there are no rules to maintain fiscal sanity and protect the public, well, this is what happens. Both parties are guilty of allowing that lack of regulation to create this problem, but it is the Republican Party that is THE party of deregulation -- they've been eliminating regulations for 30 years, and arguably since the Depression. Apparently, they OVER-deregulated, and tada, the market is imploding as a consequence.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Bail Out or Slush Fund?

What do they say about history repeats? With four weeks left before the General Election of 2008, it's important to plan forward, but also to look back.

In the last few weeks of the 2004 campaign, while the Democratic party dithered over whether to pitch to Right or Left, George W. Bush pulled out every stop. For the affluent (and those aspiring to affluence) he promised more deregulation and tax cuts. For single issue theocratic types, he spouted stir-it-up talk about preserving straight white patriarchal elites. To those already drowning in a war economy with no safety net, W offered an appeal to primal instinct. At the level of advertising, tv and talk radio, the presidential race shrank to just one question: Who do you Trust? John Kerry – the flip flopper "girlie" man – or Bush, the-with-me-or-against me wartime president?

In this election like that one, the Right's ground troops were fed plenty of rhetoric. But Rove didn't rely on red meat alone. There was also cash. We've learned a lot about how GOP political operatives led by Rove politicized every tentacle of the federal government from the Defense Department to Justice. So it should come as no surprise to recall that in the weeks before the '04 election, Bush administration officials dispersed a mountain of government largesse in swing states. In the two weeks before Election Day, the administration announced $10 million for a church-based job training scheme in Jacksonville Florida, money for a long-awaited wildlife refuge in Minnesota and a national park in Colorado. Just days before the voting, the Bushies came up with $207 million to clean up drinking water in Columbus, Ohio.

In 2004, a government that was already in overdraft had plenty of money for pre-election favors. This year, there's more than $700 billion to dole out. We've been told the money could start being dispersed at any moment. Call me crazy, but it seems to me, with a bill that's packed with more than $100 billion in corporate and personal tax breaks, for among others the auto racing body NASCAR, there's a whole lot of fungible cash floating around. Pork may be the least of our worries. History suggests we should watch for buying votes.
Dank, that's great, except whoever wrote it is neglecting something.

Franklin Raines wasn't white, (neither is Obama) and those two nut cases are also part of the "Elite"
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Sweden would disagree with you. They socialized their banks, similar to what we are doing. Because they acted quickly, they avoided a complete meltdown, and made a nice profit for their taxpayers when they later sold the assets (mainly banks) that they had temporarily socialized as an emergency measure. I believe the profit they made for their taxpayers by doing so exceeded 500% -- for every buck their taxpayers invested, they made five bucks in profit on the back end, five years later.

And what's happened here is not like Enron. What's happened this time is that there were no regulations imposed on the securities and CDS markets, so the banks went crazy with the lack of rules. When there are no rules to maintain fiscal sanity and protect the public, well, this is what happens. Both parties are guilty of allowing that lack of regulation to create this problem, but it is the Republican Party that is THE party of deregulation -- they've been eliminating regulations for 30 years, and arguably since the Depression. Apparently, they OVER-deregulated, and tada, the market is imploding as a consequence.
Bongulator go study your history.

The primary problem with the Great Crash, wasn't banking deregulation. It was idiots trading on Margin, thus when they ran out of buyers and the markets headed south they were facing margin calls that forced them to liquidate their positions creating a snowball effect that lead to the Great Crash.

There was also the problem with the greatly leveraged trading houses that issued stock in their own firms up to their total leveraged value, and thus when the margin calls came, got steam rolled.

There was also massive market manipulation, especially of stock like Radio Corporation of America.

There are no real parallels between the lack of regulation in 1929 and the current "lack of regulation" now.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
You understand that there is a $62,000,000,000,000 market in credit default swaps, and it is completely unregulated, right? That's sixty-two trillion dollars, or six TIMES our current national debt. When you have an unregulated market of that size, expect serious problems. Reality bears this out: we have such a market, it is unregulated, and we are experiencing serious problems.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
You understand that there is a $62,000,000,000,000 market in credit default swaps, and it is completely unregulated, right? That's sixty-two trillion dollars, or six TIMES our current national debt. When you have an unregulated market of that size, expect serious problems. Reality bears this out: we have such a market, it is unregulated, and we are experiencing serious problems.
Did I ever say that this current crisis didn't have totally different problems? Or problems of its own?

I just said that it can not be compared to the Great Crash. One was a massive collapse amongst individual investors due to margin calls (...

damn, that probably also explains why there were no bail outs in the Great Crash either...)

and the other was a massive collapse amongst institutions.

Large difference.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Dank, that's great, except whoever wrote it is neglecting something.

Franklin Raines wasn't white, (neither is Obama) and those two nut cases are also part of the "Elite"
What's being white have to do with it TBT? (your racism is showing)
Secondly I was never for the bail out in the first place. (that isn't how capitalism works)
You know that President Hoover was advised to let the banks go under during the Great Depression and he tried to do the same thing. It actually extended the Great Depression, this is just history repeating it's self.
Deregulation is what's caused this mess, that and Bush saying that he wanted the United States to become an ownership society which in turn started the housing loan free for all.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Bail Out or Slush Fund?

What do they say about history repeats? With four weeks left before the General Election of 2008, it's important to plan forward, but also to look back.

In the last few weeks of the 2004 campaign, while the Democratic party dithered over whether to pitch to Right or Left, George W. Bush pulled out every stop. For the affluent (and those aspiring to affluence) he promised more deregulation and tax cuts. For single issue theocratic types, he spouted stir-it-up talk about preserving straight white patriarchal elites. To those already drowning in a war economy with no safety net, W offered an appeal to primal instinct. At the level of advertising, tv and talk radio, the presidential race shrank to just one question: Who do you Trust? John Kerry – the flip flopper "girlie" man – or Bush, the-with-me-or-against me wartime president?

In this election like that one, the Right's ground troops were fed plenty of rhetoric. But Rove didn't rely on red meat alone. There was also cash. We've learned a lot about how GOP political operatives led by Rove politicized every tentacle of the federal government from the Defense Department to Justice. So it should come as no surprise to recall that in the weeks before the '04 election, Bush administration officials dispersed a mountain of government largesse in swing states. In the two weeks before Election Day, the administration announced $10 million for a church-based job training scheme in Jacksonville Florida, money for a long-awaited wildlife refuge in Minnesota and a national park in Colorado. Just days before the voting, the Bushies came up with $207 million to clean up drinking water in Columbus, Ohio.

In 2004, a government that was already in overdraft had plenty of money for pre-election favors. This year, there's more than $700 billion to dole out. We've been told the money could start being dispersed at any moment. Call me crazy, but it seems to me, with a bill that's packed with more than $100 billion in corporate and personal tax breaks, for among others the auto racing body NASCAR, there's a whole lot of fungible cash floating around. Pork may be the least of our worries. History suggests we should watch for buying votes.
How about Dank, you actually read what you're posting instead of C&Ping it from whatever trash heap you get it from?
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Go and read my last C&P called Financial Meltdown 101.... you'll really love that one.
Besides, the Racist So called Conservatives have made a mess of things since 1994's Contract With America, it's time to let someone else have the reigns of power.
The Republicans have been the Elite long enough, oh and guess what, most republicans (around 85%) tend to be white.
Again, your racism is showing
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Go and read my last C&P called Financial Meltdown 101.... you'll really love that one.
Besides, the Racist So called Conservatives have made a mess of things since 1994's Contract With America, it's time to let someone else have the reigns of power.
The Republicans have been the Elite long enough, oh and guess what, most republicans (around 85%) tend to be white.
Again, your racism is showing
You quote unintelligent articles and acuse me of being a racist when I illustrate the hideous logic flaws and racial hate-mongering that they contain, I'm so... unimpressed.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Then come up with an intellegent argument instead of the same old tired Republican mantra The Brutal Lie. Most people don't buy it any more. ( I really don't know how you can even spout that shit with a strait face any more.)
Your just pissed because the republicans are losing power. They fucked up and don't want to admitt it. Now they are paying for it.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Then come up with an intellegent argument instead of the same old tired Republican mantra The Brutal Lie. Most people don't buy it any more. ( I really don't know how you can even spout that shit with a strait face any more.)
Your just pissed because the republicans are losing power. They fucked up and don't want to admitt it. Now they are paying for it.
Yes, and you're an idiotic socialist who can't accept the fact that your desires for a socialist society are stupid, and have already been proven to not work.

You can't accept the fact that people like me have already admitted that it goes beyond just the CRA, and Wall Street, and that both parties are to blame, because you're head is so far up Obama's ass that it's a miracle we don't hear you speaking when he opens his mouth.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Yes, and you're an idiotic socialist who can't accept the fact that your desires for a socialist society are stupid, and have already been proven to not work.

You can't accept the fact that people like me have already admitted that it goes beyond just the CRA, and Wall Street, and that both parties are to blame, because you're head is so far up Obama's ass that it's a miracle we don't hear you speaking when he opens his mouth.
So little you really know about me, I was a life long republican until 1/2 way through your Hero Bush's first term. Then I didn't like the way the republican party was headed.
Socialist? Not really.
My Voting for Obama is a Rebellion against the way the republicans have fucked things up since 1994.
But keep spouting the mantra, like Joseph Gorbels said, if you repeat a lie long enough people will start to believe it.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
So little you really know about me, I was a life long republican until 1/2 way through your Hero Bush's first term. Then I didn't like the way the republican party was headed.
Socialist? Not really.
My Voting for Obama is a Rebellion against the way the republicans have fucked things up since 1994.
But keep spouting the mantra, like Joseph Gorbels said, if you repeat a lie long enough people will start to believe it.
Rebellion against the way the Republicans have fucked things up...

You're rebelling against the Republicans by voting for Obama... that's really unimpressive. You see, I'm rebelling against the Republicans by voting Constitution Party, not by voting Democrat.

Bush supporter, not so much, I just wasn't about to let Morons like Al Gore or Kerry take over this country.

It wasn't a matter of supporting Bush, it was a matter of opposing Kerry and Gore.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Well just one more thing, please tell me when a 3rd party is going to put out a viable candidate, then I will vote for that person. The last time that happened was when Ross Parot ran and you know how that turned out.
 
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