Banana Kush, Sulfur Hog?

Z

ZeusBarks

Member
First time growing Banana Kush and I am experiencing what I believe is a persistent sulfur deficiency. About two weeks ago I started seeing yellowing on new growth, similar to what is shown below. I applied epsom foliar spray 1 tbsp per gal. and added .5 tbsp per gal to feed. After 3 days still the same. Applied more epsom foliar. Repeat until now. Plants are as pictured below, growing slow. Transplanted to 5 gal 4 days ago, roots where healthy white and grown mildly into bottom of 3 gal but thinner than expected for age.

How much epsom do you feed? Is there some other problem that presents similarly?

Water: purified 20 ppm 7.5 at start
Nutes: Fox farms trio at full strength veg (1500 ppm) + 2.5 ml per gal CALiMAGic per gal (1700 ppm total)
Feed ph: 5.75-5.9
Room temp: 70-75 F
RH: 35-50%
Lights: 600w MH + 70w LED on 17.5 hr, 4x4
 

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myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Since your ppms are high I doubt it’s a sulfer def. new growth will be a little light green since they grow so fast. They don’t look bad to me Your adding all the right stuff. How old are they?
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Did u pre charge the new coco with calmag at transplant?Id back off on the Epson and just up the calmag to 1-1.5 ml/L so about 5 ml gallon.
 
Z

ZeusBarks

Member
myke said:
Since your ppms are high I doubt it’s a sulfer def. new growth will be a little light green since they grow so fast. They don’t look bad to me Your adding all the right stuff. How old are they?
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They have been vegging since 2/18. Without the foliar feed they just stop growing all together. Been about the same size for a week+.

After reading I think my issue was this. Initial ph problem caused a sulfur deficiency, I treated by adding epsom which binds with cal mag to become insoluble. Explains why they asking for high ppm nutes, the cal is binding up. Going to flush the res and run some 1500 ppm nutes w/o epsom and see if they get back to normal. Will post +3 days for benefit of others
 
Z

ZeusBarks

Member
myke said:
Did u pre charge the new coco with calmag at transplant?Id back off on the Epson and just up the calmag to 1-1.5 ml/L so about 5 ml gallon.
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No. I use 1tbsp bone meal, 10% earthworm castings, 10% aged compost, 1 tbsp per gal azomite and mykos on transplant
 
Z

ZeusBarks

Member
CannaCountry said:
So you're using coco, but handling it more like a 'soil less' grow? Are you feeding your plant daily?
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No about every 2 or 3 days. I don’t let them dry out as much as full soil but I like to let them loss about 50% of weight before watering. Running low run off drip 5-10% with molases and mykos flush every other Sunday
 
C

CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
ZeusBarks said:
No. I use 1tbsp bone meal, 10% earthworm castings, 10% aged compost, 1 tbsp per gal azomite and mykos on transplant
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This ^ plus coco, plus liquid nutrients (salts), plus molasses, seems to make for more of a mess than success. I think you would do better with either straight coco and your liquid nutrients, or go with your hybrid mix, but perhaps handle it more like a soil grow than not. Your plant doesn't appear to be short on anything at the moment, including S, Mg or Ca.

You mentioned the plants have been in veg since 2/18...less than a month. You mentioned you had them in 3 gallon pots, of which they had not filled out yet and you up potted them to 5 gallon pots. You also mentioned they don't seem to be growing without your foliar feed application. You'll need to consider, you've just expanded their home...which means the plant is doing a lot under ground, where you can't see, which takes away from other activities (growing above ground). Conversely, if you're giving them feed on their leaves, why would they need to pull feed from their roots? Make them drink from the pot, and not from their leaves. FYI, unless you're trying for a 8' + plants you don't need 5 gallon pots when using coco.

And if the Epson Salt isn't helping...stop using it. You really only need to add it if you're having a Mg issue (an S issue is most likely tied to a pH issue...not so much because S isn't there for the taking), which it doesn't appear you are.

Just a few things to think about...good luck friend.
 
Z

ZeusBarks

Member
CannaCountry said:
This ^ plus coco, plus liquid nutrients (salts), plus molasses, seems to make for more of a mess than success. I think you would do better with either straight coco and your liquid nutrients, or go with your hybrid mix, but perhaps handle it more like a soil grow than not. Your plant doesn't appear to be short on anything at the moment, including S, Mg or Ca.

You mentioned the plants have been in veg since 2/18...less than a month. You mentioned you had them in 3 gallon pots, of which they had not filled out yet and you up potted them to 5 gallon pots. You also mentioned they don't seem to be growing without your foliar feed application. You'll need to consider, you've just expanded their home...which means the plant is doing a lot under ground, where you can't see, which takes away from other activities (growing above ground). Conversely, if you're giving them feed on their leaves, why would they need to pull feed from their roots? Make them drink from the pot, and not from their leaves. FYI, unless you're trying for a 8' + plants you don't need 5 gallon pots when using coco.
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Thanks CannaCountry. I am rather new to cannabis cultivation but have been using similar feed techniques on pepper, tomatoes, lettuce, succulents and bonsai trees for years. I live in high desert (month plus of freeze in the winter and month plus of 100+ F in the summer) so I have started tomatoes and herbs inside before moving them outside in March. I generally consider transplant shock to be a combination of primarily 3 factors; transplanting too late, transplanting into new type of media and/or physical injury in transplant. At least with vegetables by maintaining a consistent microbiome you can avoid growth slowing on transplant. At least in my view plants should decide to grow roots, leaves, flowers and fruit based on the environmental conditions (temperature, light cycle and age) not confinement. Why shouldn't cannabis take its growing instruction from the container size instead of the environmental conditions?

I see the concept that either roots are growing or leaves are growing in lots of cannabis forums. Is there some unique feature of cannabis that creates this or is it a myth? Basically every other plant I have ever grown can grow roots and leaves at the same time (aka veg), then it cuts back on both while it flowers/fruits, then either goes dormant or dies.
 
Z

ZeusBarks

Member
CannaCountry said:
This ^ plus coco, plus liquid nutrients (salts), plus molasses, seems to make for more of a mess than success. .
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Molasses doesn't cause a mess, it cleans the mess. So much better than trying to flush with water.

"Molasses also aids in the reduction of salt build up, which is a common cause of nutritional problems, and is a useful insect repellent." (forum wont let me post the link but google that phrase for back up)

It is like cooking. If you add too much salt you can neutralize it with sugar, aka molasses
 
C

CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
ZeusBarks said:
Thanks CannaCountry. I am rather new to cannabis cultivation but have been using similar feed techniques on pepper, tomatoes, lettuce, succulents and bonsai trees for years. I live in high desert (month plus of freeze in the winter and month plus of 100+ F in the summer) so I have started tomatoes and herbs inside before moving them outside in March. I generally consider transplant shock to be a combination of primarily 3 factors; transplanting too late, transplanting into new type of media and/or physical injury in transplant. At least with vegetables by maintaining a consistent microbiome you can avoid growth slowing on transplant. At least in my view plants should decide to grow roots, leaves, flowers and fruit based on the environmental conditions (temperature, light cycle and age) not confinement. Why shouldn't cannabis take its growing instruction from the container size instead of the environmental conditions?

I see the concept that either roots are growing or leaves are growing in lots of cannabis forums. Is there some unique feature of cannabis that creates this or is it a myth? Basically every other plant I have ever grown can grow roots and leaves at the same time (aka veg), then it cuts back on both while it flowers/fruits, then either goes dormant or dies.
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Hi Zeus,

I wasn't insinuating that the plant won't grow above ground as its roots are growing below ground, but you have to keep in mind that the plant isn't only growing above ground; which I'm sure you know. It was more a statement of patience.

As to the molasses and some of the other things stated; I agree, molasses has its place, and so do the ideals, patterns and lessons you've learned growing vegetables. The thing is...you're trying to grow cannabis in coco using salts, upon which you've added various organic materials to. I'm not saying it can't be done...you're doing it...but in my experience everything works better if you'll adhere to keeping things simple and either grow in straight coco or grow organically w/ soil, but when you start trying to double up the methods, the grow goes south fast. Ask me how I know.

As to where cannabis gets its 'growing instructions'; DNA. I don't know how big you're trying to grow your plants, but a 1 gallon pot of coco will easily grow 3'-4' plants with excellent results. I'm not sure they make a tent big enough to take on the true potential of a coco grown plant in a 5 gallon pot. It would be a monster!

Anyhow, you know what you're doing; it's clear with all your experience. I appreciate the dialogue and hope you get things going in your direction. Good luck.
 
Z

ZeusBarks

Member
CannaCountry said:
Hi Zeus,
I don't know how big you're trying to grow your plants, but a 1 gallon pot of coco will easily grow 3'-4' plants with excellent results. I'm not sure they make a tent big enough to take on the true potential of a coco grown plant in a 5 gallon pot. It would be a monster!
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Hmm, now this is a good question. I am going for a monster but 3' 4' of vertical growth would be a monster in this tent. NM has a 4 plant flowing limit and I'm i'd like to be set for the year for this single grow so Im going for a longer veg. I've got a 4x4 tent they share with some vegetables right now but the veggies are marching outside.

I had read that Cannabis has massive root structure so I was going based on the general idea that what grows above ground must grow below ground. Sounds like this may be a massive overestimation. I've go about 2.5 feet of vertical grow space, maybe 3 as the cooling is good.
 
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