Barney's F - Vanilla Kush / TGA Subcool - Ace of Spades = Waterfarm - 600w

I'm not sure who decided that was a good idea - it doesn't make sense to me to introduce ANY nutrients to your system at the start if you plan to grow from seed... possibly if you're xplanting a clone into it, you may benefit, but even then it would be risky in my opinion. Seasoning your hydroton can only be done (correctly) by using it through an entire grow. Even after it's finished with a grow-round, I wash it extensively before re-using it. My last grow had some bad root rot and was especially bad.

I'm guessing that rinsing & soaking previously 'used' hydroton in water with H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) in it would be beneficial to kill off any algae or plant disease spores that may be living in it... I've learned that most plants and root matter carry different bacterial 'spores' which can be problems if your rez gets too warm.

From my experience so far with waterfarms, I'm convinced that fresh unused hydroton can be rinsed until the cows come home and still pose issues like slow starting growth and early burnt leaf tips etc... the key there is not to panic - just let the seedling fight through it, and it will settle in more and more as the root makes its way down and spreads out in tbe grow chamber. When you start to see root tips poking through the holes in the bottom, you're likely already on your way to a nicely growing plant.

I Did After I Smoked A Bowl Thought It Was A Good Idea.I Guess I'm Getting Antsy To Grow.

dawg i did and it made no difference. i even ran it with clean water for two weeks after. it made no difference at all my girls still got nuked. i agree 100% with dayzt its just a fact of life

Dear Dayzt, I've been following your grows for a while and am a big fan. I have no grow experience yet but your work and success has inspired me to try the waterfarm along with the scrog method. My question about the scrog is how do you position the branches so they use the screen and fill it up, instead of having it as something to lean on? I've read many things about the scrog and how to go about it, but nothing is clear and has made me very confused about the whole thing. Any help, tips, or advice about how you go about it would be greatly appreciated. May you be blessed with continued success and thank you for the help.

forgetiwashere said:

dawg i did and it made no difference. i even ran it with clean water for two weeks after. it made no difference at all my girls still got nuked. i agree 100% with dayzt its just a fact of life

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Thanks Forget And Daytz.I Guess Great Minds Think Alike.I Was Disecting The Grow Journals And Noticed No one Mention Seasoning Thier Hydroton With A Nute Soulition.Either The Just Plop The Seed In Or They Washed The Dickins Out Of Their Hydroton.Was Thinking The Nute Wash Might Work Oh Well I Can't Wait For My Power Supplies To Arrive.I'm Already To Go.

The Dawg said:

I Did After I Smoked A Bowl Thought It Was A Good Idea.I Guess I'm Getting Antsy To Grow.

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Lol..yeah man, don't over-think things - keep it simple and things will come together. Stick to the basics and once she's rooted in it gets easier from there.

forgetiwashere said:

dawg i did and it made no difference. i even ran it with clean water for two weeks after. it made no difference at all my girls still got nuked. i agree 100% with dayzt its just a fact of life

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Yeah don't sweat it - it gets past that stage in just over a week or so. I think it's partly the seedling adjusting to the amount of open air and it's first taste of water as well...just a thought.

BartenderSteve said:

Dear Dayzt, I've been following your grows for a while and am a big fan. I have no grow experience yet but your work and success has inspired me to try the waterfarm along with the scrog method. My question about the scrog is how do you position the branches so they use the screen and fill it up, instead of having it as something to lean on? I've read many things about the scrog and how to go about it, but nothing is clear and has made me very confused about the whole thing. Any help, tips, or advice about how you go about it would be greatly appreciated. May you be blessed with continued success and thank you for the help.

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Wow man, I'm honored to have inspired you! I was in your exact same position about this time last year when I picked up on Scottyballs' journal that showed truly what the waterfarm could do with just a single plant. Picked up a unit and dove in...the rest is history! (closely journaled here of course!)

As for how the plant branches get positioned - for me it's really important to start LST (low stress training) as soon it's strong enough to handle it. This starts the 'auxin sharing' early on as well, which forces the plant to spread out with even sized tops that get just as much growth power as one another. Keep in mind that this is long before the screen even needs to be in the growing area... Train your plant early and get it growing side-ways by tieing her down. You'll find it much easier to spread it around your screen later on this way.

Thanks for following BTS - glad your along for the ride!

The Dawg said:

Thanks Forget And Daytz.I Guess Great Minds Think Alike.I Was Disecting The Grow Journals And Noticed No one Mention Seasoning Thier Hydroton With A Nute Soulition.Either The Just Plop The Seed In Or They Washed The Dickins Out Of Their Hydroton.Was Thinking The Nute Wash Might Work Oh Well I Can't Wait For My Power Supplies To Arrive.I'm Already To Go.

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No prob man - don't worry too much about it. Your seedling will come out stronger once it's settled into the hydroton - just give it a chance and let it do it's thing.

Here's a quick picture update from this evening. Again, I used my older camera as it's easier to get good pictures with not so bad of yellowing... but it obviously sacrifices the crisp details of the DSLR camera...

Anyways, here they are... still perky, super-green, strong and happy!!

~Vanilla Kush~



~The Ace of Spades~



Have a good night all...look for some more pics this weekend in high def, hopefully before lights on time so we can see some panties! Yay!

man i dont know what it is about that ace of spades but its almost hypnotic, looking great dayzt.

Dayzt, the ladies are looking wonderfully sexy. I'm especially excited to see how this VK turns out, and looks in hd! Just wanted to say thank you again for the advice and the work you put into your journals....it is greatly appreciated and is an invaluable resource for people like myself with no experience.
I will most definitely be LST'ing my girls like you advise, however I'm still a bit confused as far as the screen goes. Is the screen there to continue the LST by preventing the plant from growing vertically? How do you physically maneuver the branches under/over/through the screen to create the magic you do? I feel I may be over complicating the whole thing, but thanks for bearing with me. I really need to just begin growing to learn firsthand, just trying to get as much research and knowledge as possible. You've made a believer out of me with the waterfarm and scrog and I wanna try to replicate your success. Sorry about the rambling, I just got a volcano and I am feeling beautiful.
Thanks again yo, and I'm happy to be along for the ride

Both girls are Perfect!!! +REP

mr2shim said:

Wow, Think I'm going to get me a VK seed! That thing is a beast. AoS looks so pitiful, but as long as it's healthy.

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I gotta tell ya... I've got a VK going too and she's doing okay, but I've also got a Red Cherry Berry that I started at exactly the same time. Look at the difference... VK on the left:

Someguy15 said:

lol, both of yours are kicking my Vanilla Kush's ass! I've just been hand watering in 2 gal smart pots tho. And I'm dumb and didn't wash the hydroton well enough which caused me some grief for the first couple weeks. How long until you think yours should be flower ready? I'd post a pic of mine but I'm too ashamed haha

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Never be ashamed! If there's something wrong with it, somebody might be able to spot it and tell you exactly how to return your girl to full health. We are ALL sharing and learning here.

Bluejeans said:

I gotta tell ya... I've got a VK going too and she's doing okay, but I've also got a Red Cherry Berry that I started at exactly the same time. Look at the difference... VK on the left:

View attachment 1882565View attachment 1882566

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Bluejeans said:

Never be ashamed! If there's something wrong with it, somebody might be able to spot it and tell you exactly how to return your girl to full health. We are ALL sharing and learning here.

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Nice!! I had a RCB seed at one time, but I screwed it up in an early attempt when I was still learning the ropes...should be interesting to watch - you don't see that strain grown out anymore.

I agree - don't worry about making mistakes, it's the best way to find out the correct way. It's the mistakes we make that end up making us better! It's not a race or a competition - just learn from it and use those circumstances to build your skills. We're all here to learn and post our experiences for the benefit of everyone...aside from that, it's fun to show-off sometimes and be proud of our successes! lol..

Dayzt said:

Even if you have heavy root-rot, H2O2 will eat away the dead roots so you can easily remove them... although with a waterfarm scrog, it would next to impossible since you can't access the inside of the rez once the screen is down...

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I'm very curious about this. My VK is experiencing some brown roots. I think it is because I damaged some when I was moving her around. I tore a section of roots away. She is putting out new white ones and I think she's going to be okay, but I'm curious about the H2O2. I've added it to my res, but I'm wondering about removal... You said "H2O2 will eat away the dead roots so you can easily remove them"... how exactly would I do that?

forgetiwashere said:

man i dont know what it is about that ace of spades but its almost hypnotic, looking great dayzt.

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Yeah, the tops on this plant are really starting to get big and thick. I think the super-cropping really helped it avoid too much stretching. The tops are really starting to 'flower-up' now - I'm hoping it's a sign of some dense nugs across this semi-even canopy. I'm quite happy with how it's working out so far, minus the screen. The bid indica leaves on this girl do indeed tend to look like they 'spiral' around some. No signs of deficiencies at all on her at this point - she's still loving the 450 ppms.

BartenderSteve said:

Dayzt, the ladies are looking wonderfully sexy. I'm especially excited to see how this VK turns out, and looks in hd! Just wanted to say thank you again for the advice and the work you put into your journals....it is greatly appreciated and is an invaluable resource for people like myself with no experience.
I will most definitely be LST'ing my girls like you advise, however I'm still a bit confused as far as the screen goes. Is the screen there to continue the LST by preventing the plant from growing vertically? How do you physically maneuver the branches under/over/through the screen to create the magic you do? I feel I may be over complicating the whole thing, but thanks for bearing with me. I really need to just begin growing to learn firsthand, just trying to get as much research and knowledge as possible. You've made a believer out of me with the waterfarm and scrog and I wanna try to replicate your success. Sorry about the rambling, I just got a volcano and I am feeling beautiful.
Thanks again yo, and I'm happy to be along for the ride

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I'm happy to help - I love growing, and knowing these journals are helping others out, well - that's just gravy!! As for the screen - it's job is to just gently hold the seperate tops away from each other enough to make the plant keep an 'even playing field' across all of the tops. Basically, it's encouraging an even canopy that makes the best use of the light, sharing it evenly. When you train (LST) the plant early, imagine that there is a screen there even though there isn't. Watch for lower developing branches, and tie down the main tops to expose those developing ones so they 'catch up' to the main ones. Once they are just past a foot above your waterfarm top, put the screen down gently, and place the tops through their own seperate holes in the screen. Once they grow up through those holes about 2-3 inches, gently pull those ones back down through the holes, and move them horizontally 'out' under the screen, and up through anothe hole further away. The branches are then at some fairly extreme angles, or almost completely horizontal, allowing for thier lower nodes to 'stand up' and grow up through the holes previously used by the main top. The grid of the screen holds your tops apart gently, and just enough to keep things fair and even between the different tops.

There comes a point (usually 2-3 weeks into flower) where you'll need to stop moving the top out like this, and to just let 'er go. By then, she'll be mostly used to sharing her auxins evenly with the tops all at close to the same level. Remember, you can only have the light as low as your tallest top, so the more even your canopy is - the more beneficial your light will be to the entire plant. By this time, you'll notice the plant is actually pushing up on the screen and it will bulge slightly in the middle, where the most pressure is. (see the VK)

As you can tell, the screen is then nicely just 'guiding' the plant to share it's resources evenly - and that's really it's job. Once the tops thicken, and everything is inevitably taller and heavier, the stalks actually 'lean' on the screen and are sturdier because of it. (see my TD grow)

I hope that makes sense! Stay green!

SmeLLyTreeZ said:

Both girls are Perfect!!! +REP

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Thanks for the rep smelly!! So far so good - I've never seen anything like this AoS - I think it's the most indica I've seen in any plant I've grown so far... she's really keeping some thick branches all the way out to the tops - should be able to handle some fat buds, so I hope that means she'll really start to thicken up later on in flowering.

Dayzt said:

Nice!! I had a RCB seed at one time, but I screwed it up in an early attempt when I was still learning the ropes...should be interesting to watch - you don't see that strain grown out anymore.

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I've noticed a real lack of pictures of the RCB. I chose that one on a whim after literally HOURS of reading The Attitude and drooling over strains I knew absolutely nothing about. After my order arrived, I didn't even remember what that one was...

But I cracked it and it has, so far, been the most fun I've had in a long time. She is frickin' huge, and I swear on a stack of Cannabibles that I can see her twitch on occasion as she takes a sip of nutes and grows an inch! She is now 27 days from seed and I'm thinking seriously about flipping the lights in about a week.

BTW - I just jumped into the middle of your thread without any introduction. I'm sorry...I followed a link on Dr. Amber Trichomes Waterfarm journal over here to yours because I saw you were growing the lovely VK. Since I'm having a little trouble with my VK, I thought I'd follow along and see how yours does. I'm the Ganja Granny. I just started growing my first very grow in mid-September when I adopted a little abandoned plant who was in flowering (the story is in my signature). I am closer to death than birth and I have grandkids.

She was harvested last week and I have since begun a real grow...my VK, RCB, and a Kaya Gold that is 3 days from seed in DWC pots, and a handful of NL X BB clones that will go in soil this weekend.

It has been very helpful to see how low your ppms are running. My VK was around 400 and doing fair, but I thought she should be higher so I kept trying to push the ppms up a little... and she balks every time. I've changed the res 3 times in the past 10 days, trying to make and keep her happy. I've yet to dial in on it just right. But your low ppm numbers give a better reference to try again this weekend to please her. The RCB is running at 700 and happy as a clam.

Great grow and I'm glad Amber linked to it so I could find and watch your lovely VK and AoS.

Bluejeans said:

I'm very curious about this. My VK is experiencing some brown roots. I think it is because I damaged some when I was moving her around. I tore a section of roots away. She is putting out new white ones and I think she's going to be okay, but I'm curious about the H2O2. I've added it to my res, but I'm wondering about removal... You said "H2O2 will eat away the dead roots so you can easily remove them"... how exactly would I do that?

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It sounds like you've already done the correct thing with removing the brown roots. (Honestly, I've never had to do this yet - being only my second time running a hydro setup, it's a tip I've picked up along the way although I've not done it myself.) The hydrogen peroxide really just 'assists' with what you've already done, making it easier to seperate the old brown roots from the nice new white root-ball underneath. Going forward after that cleanup, just be sure to keep adding a percentage of H2O2 to your rez changes and subsequent add-backs, to ensure the roots stay healthy.

One thing I'd like to note here is your rez water temperature. If it's getting too warm (which can often happen due to your light actually heating up your circulating water in the system as it hits it constantly from above), you'll want to try and bring down those temps - as warm water encourages root rot due to there being less oxygen in warmer water. Cooler water allows for more oxygen in the water, and the H2O2 actually 'creates' more oxygen in your rez as it does it's thing...

Bluejeans said:

I've noticed a real lack of pictures of the RCB. I chose that one on a whim after literally HOURS of reading The Attitude and drooling over strains I knew absolutely nothing about. After my order arrived, I didn't even remember what that one was...

But I cracked it and it has, so far, been the most fun I've had in a long time. She is frickin' huge, and I swear on a stack of Cannabibles that I can see her twitch on occasion as she takes a sip of nutes and grows an inch! She is now 27 days from seed and I'm thinking seriously about flipping the lights in about a week.

BTW - I just jumped into the middle of your thread without any introduction. I'm sorry...I followed a link on Dr. Amber Trichomes Waterfarm journal over here to yours because I saw you were growing the lovely VK. Since I'm having a little trouble with my VK, I thought I'd follow along and see how yours does. I'm the Ganja Granny. I just started growing my first very grow in mid-September when I adopted a little abandoned plant who was in flowering (the story is in my signature). I am closer to death than birth and I have grandkids.

She was harvested last week and I have since begun a real grow...my VK, RCB, and a Kaya Gold that is 3 days from seed in DWC pots, and a handful of NL X BB clones that will go in soil this weekend.

It has been very helpful to see how low your ppms are running. My VK was around 400 and doing fair, but I thought she should be higher so I kept trying to push the ppms up a little... and she balks every time. I've changed the res 3 times in the past 10 days, trying to make and keep her happy. I've yet to dial in on it just right. But your low ppm numbers give a better reference to try again this weekend to please her. The RCB is running at 700 and happy as a clam.

Great grow and I'm glad Amber linked to it so I could find and watch your lovely VK and AoS.

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Awesome...!!

I'm the Ganja Granny.

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I think that's pretty cool - the love we share for this plant knows no age barriers, has no prejudices towards race, age, color or origin....yet another lesson we can learn from something so simple, yet so feared by today's society of greed and ignorance. This plant truly does bring us all together.

Welcome to my journal blue - I'm very glad you're joining us! The RCB looks like it will be a nice rewarding strain - prepare for a bit of an extra-long flowering time for her, but not super-long. According to BF, it's around 75 days due to it's sativa hybrid side - but in my experience, most strains can go that long anyway, even ones that don't mention a longer flowering time... it's one of those things that can be different from plant to plant depending on how stable the hydrid balance is. I'm looking forward to seeing how they do! Looking great so far!

The low ppms are a result of the whole 'less is more' mantra with the nutrient regimen... last time (my TD grow), I over-nuted and didn't flush out the bad nutrient well enough - since I had some pretty bad root rot towards the end in the waterfarm, the root system was not healthy enough to pull back down alot of those nutrients from the plant as it finished out - but I've learned a lot from that, and moving forward I plan to keep things below 'the revommended amount' for my plants, and always yield at the sign of an increasing ppm... as this is a tell-tale sign that the plant has slowed down or even 'stopped' taking up nutes briefly.

Dayzt said:

One thing I'd like to note here is your rez water temperature. If it's getting too warm (which can often happen due to your light actually heating up your circulating water in the system as it hits it constantly from above), you'll want to try and bring down those temps - as warm water encourages root rot due to there being less oxygen in warmer water. Cooler water allows for more oxygen in the water, and the H2O2 actually 'creates' more oxygen in your rez as it does it's thing...

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Thanks. I just got a thermometer and started watching my temps. The RCB is a little higher than I'd like (hovering around 77-80F - but she's getting her first res change tonight) but the VK is much lower due to the fact that I keep trying to get it right for her and I've changed the res 3 times in 10 days with fresh cool (bordering on cold) water. As of last night, her res temps were around 69F. I can't be 100% sure, but I really believe all of my VK issues are self-imposed...I screwed up.

This is my girl now...any thoughts?

What is your water pH at in the VK? That could be some early signs of lockout - nothing serious yet, but a high pH will keep it from getting certain types of nutrient. I used to see that kind of thing in my soil grows early on, and it was usually due to a high pH in my soil or water. If the pH is above 6.8 or so, that may be what's happening... Do you use RO water, or tap water?