Battling an Unknown Enemy.

Well it's been one thing after another with my first one. Saw fungus gnat (singular) on one of my leaves, and I too dressed the soil with 1" of sand to suffocate the eggs, and picked up some neem oil. I accidentally put 3capfulls in quart of water, not a gallon. So the leaves start canoeing and tips are burnt. To compound my problem, I transplanted them because my soil was holding water 24/7. Now, Im at the point now where IM WORRIED, 2 plants are uniformly yellow starting at the bottom and working its way up. Me, thinking its N def, I feed them, but only at 1/4 of what I was feeding them, and very diluted. My temps were running high even for co2 enrichment standards(which I'm doing with fermentation and occasional dry ice) @ 85-92*F. I'm now thinking they have light/heat stress and with the transplant and overdoing the neem oil, I'm fearful I've stressed them to the max and they're gonna die on me!!! ? someone, please help me. I've include pics of all 3 and my set up, was in a 2 Rubbermaid tubs DIY stealth box but moved to closet in hopes of achieving cooler temps. Also I'm adding 2 gallons of ice every 8 hours to aid in temp cooling, which is around 83-86 with ice and 3 6" clip on fans and 2 4" fans.

83 after readjusting? Still too high imho for a closet grow, 92 certainly too hot. Are you just circulating air in the closet or ventilating in/out. I can't really touch the other stuff, not experienced enough yet but 92 is a bit high, 83 for extended periods for me didn't work out well, but I'm not adding any extra co2 in then whats naturally accumulated so not sure how the resilience of heat stress is connected to abundance of co2 for outside plants or indoors, really not at that point yet and it seems you probably should focus on getting fresh "air" into that room meaning just cooler air, or vent the hot stale air out somehow.

Not experienced enough to help you with the shock part from neem oil and nute help, still learning myself but you can consider it a free bump.

Thanks for the help I appreciate it. I just bought a 24 pk of bottled water to freeze for now. The fans I have on the light inline, then another from door to inside, and of course the 2 4" ones that blow over the canopy to avoid heat pockets over my plants. I'm using a 150 HPS and I have 2 55w/CFL's as well, but I can't use them for the high temps!! Dry ice wasn't feesible at $1.19/lb and using a lb/hour. House is at 73*, light is 21 1/2" away from canopy top. I've suffered from heavy handed watering disorder before, so I may have overwatered again, but I don't see that causing necrosis from the tip of the leaf back. In addition lookin up close, the outer fringes of the effected leaves are a lighter shade of green then the rest of the plant. New growth looks ok, though coming out mutants. Anyways, thank you all for everything

Nitrogen toxicity! The weird clawing and green foliage I'm such a fool! :face palm: if I'm correct, the heat is why she is spotting on top leaves cause she can't defend herself against heat stress, and the bottom yellowing I think is lockout. Sound right anyone? Remedies?

The temps were a little high is all I was remarking, the plant will exhibit the serrated edges pointing upwards at around 85, I can't really say based on the pics its heat stress, just noticed when my plants got around 83-84 they showed stress on the leaves, pointing edges upwards on sides of the leaves, receding back to normal when temps dropped down to ambient 78-80.

The neem oil if at quart instead of gallon was 4x concentration, I've never used it myself I don't know about the burning or symptoms your talking about, but I do know after good year of viewing threads and watching replies of experienced growers, generally N toxicity will show really deep dark forest green leaves and some clawing of end of leaves downwards. I'm pretty inexperienced to really help you with that, but I'd say don't overthink it or take any drastic actions yet until more experienced grower comes and gives better look at the pics. I've only started 3 plants and am in 2 months of veg so can't really help you too much and don't want to recommend anything I'm not confident on, but I do know temps at 85 showed stress in my plants in my small room grow with a/c supplying controlled temps.

May be wrong but your temp isn't probably the main reason they are in that shape, but if its reached 92 and stayed there for long periods of time it wouldn't be beneficial obviously, in the outdoors in high temp areas reaching 90s they have constant air circulation and refreshing of the co2 ect, indoors they seem to be little more sensitive to the lights and temps in confined areas as you can imagine.

By ventilation I meant pulling air into the grow area from outside thats cooler and outtake of air ventilation to separate area, or circulation of the same area around the same area, I did notice the fans and temps just was curious if you had way to pull perhaps cooler air or pull the hotter air out little better, I have 150w as well to supplement/back-up 400w, but couldn't run her without the a/c as it was little to hot for my small room with just window open for new air, got cheap 100$ window a/c and keep room whatever temp I need, but anyway you got abit going on that I have not much knowledge or experience about, patience for someone else xD.

Hey man believe it or not you've been a big help. I took a look at my fan positioning after you restated circulation and my fans were indeed recirculating the hot air, and only 1 6" fan was blowing fresh air in. Now I've switched it up to have 2 6" fans blowing fresh air in and a 4" as well. With this simple change and adding frozen water bottles I'm down to 75-78 degrees! I appreciate that portion of my problem being solved a lot, so thank you very much. I really appreciate it

THCJunkie420 said:

Hey man believe it or not you've been a big help. I took a look at my fan positioning after you restated circulation and my fans were indeed recirculating the hot air, and only 1 6" fan was blowing fresh air in. Now I've switched it up to have 2 6" fans blowing fresh air in and a 4" as well. With this simple change and adding frozen water bottles I'm down to 75-78 degrees! I appreciate that portion of my problem being solved a lot, so thank you very much. I really appreciate it

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you shouldn't need to be adding frozen water bottles. You need heat going out cold air coming in. 80 is the max I let my room get to. Usually highest is 77

Heat is a problem, But i also think adding that neem oil to ur water was also a bad move.Too much oil in the water can coat the roots and sufficate them. At that point ur plant is not up taking anything. U put these babies through a lot, but i think they can come back. U have to find a way of controlling the heat problem. Then i would get them a hard core flushing. Then say a pray and give them some time. Water as the medium dictates and hope they can pull through. Good Luck and Happy Smoking

Yea heat is by far my biggest enemy right now, I'm playing with fan positioning today to see if I can find a way to optimize what I have. The significant other it totally in the DARK on the this so running a box fan into the room/closet or out of either isn't possible. Door is open most of the time during light and closes during dark. I've researched my soil and its black gold waterhold, which is terrible for me. So I added a bag of perlite to all three pots when I transplanted them last. I think with me giving them nutes and the worm castings in the medium, I think I have N toxicity and as a result P lockout. My reason for this is my stems are purple or red and its worst on the mainstem. The bottom 1/2 of 1 is dying, and the other has a green stem and I believe she will pull thru, as she is my strongest one and I think is a sativa favored strain (all bagseed). These are the 2 effected, I did a flush last night on all 3 of them, and they seem to have less red in the stems and more vigor today, though the crinkled leaves are indicative of N toxicity and/or PH is off I'm told. Thanks a lot guys and gals

THCJunkie420 said:

Yea heat is by far my biggest enemy right now, I'm playing with fan positioning today to see if I can find a way to optimize what I have. The significant other it totally in the DARK on the this so running a box fan into the room/closet or out of either isn't possible. Door is open most of the time during light and closes during dark. I've researched my soil and its black gold waterhold, which is terrible for me. So I added a bag of perlite to all three pots when I transplanted them last. I think with me giving them nutes and the worm castings in the medium, I think I have N toxicity and as a result P lockout. My reason for this is my stems are purple or red and its worst on the mainstem. The bottom 1/2 of 1 is dying, and the other has a green stem and I believe she will pull thru, as she is my strongest one and I think is a sativa favored strain (all bagseed). These are the 2 effected, I did a flush last night on all 3 of them, and they seem to have less red in the stems and more vigor today, though the crinkled leaves are indicative of N toxicity and/or PH is off I'm told. Thanks a lot guys and gals

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I would concur with possible pH causing the leaf problems if not compounded by heat issues, but the N toxicity probably would result in the plant looking alot darker green from what I have personally viewed in the last few hundred threads where reputible growers identify the N by the dark green leafs and clawing, although I'm sure there is other circumstances this is just what I've noticed trending visiting and reading the threads every day. About the stems being red/purplish should be noted that this can be strain dependent and may not necessarily be indicative of N toxicity, given the lack of dark green leafs, but again take my in-experienced opinion with a grain of salt, as I have not experienced N toxicity first hand yet. Good luck!

Heres some more examples of what I was referring to with Toxicity of N and what generally was a characteristic most repliers who had rep would use to identify N toxicity.

"Nitrogen Toxicity
Leaves are often dark green and in the early stages abundant with foliage. If excess is severe, leaves will dry and begin to fall off. Root system will remain under developed or deteriorate after time. Fruit and flower set will be inhibited or deformed.

With breakdown of vascular tissue restricting water uptake. Stress resistance is drastically diminished."


Examples:


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Here is one that is N deficient to compare to dark green plants suffering N toxicity.




This diagram shows Examples D) and E) as toxic, with dark green noticeably darker then normal foliage.

Well everybody, looks like I'm gonna end up killing 2/3. Both have completely stopped growing, 1 being so stunted and yellow its pathetic, and it was planted the sametime as one that has ceased growth at the beginning of the 4th node development. I'm sure my soil is a problem, it's a water holding soil with worm castings so its holding heavy, despite me adding a bag of perlite. I originally tried Hempy buckets, seeing I used the wrong mix, I cut a ton of slits all on the sides and bottom of buckets to better aerofy the soil. Run off is 6.5 watering with 6.0-6.4 and the 1x week of 1/8th strength nutes w/minerals plus and molasses that ph'd at 6.5. Water bottles are a MUST for me, I don't know why, but if I want 70's it's gotta have it. I have 2 55w/3800 CFL's and a 150w HPS w/ a 13w cfl for more side lighting. I foliar fed the 2 better develope ones last night with a 1/4tsp of blood meal/quart of water to see what it would do. Today, they seem the same in terms of condition, but hasn't gotten worse, which is a first. Given this information is patience what I need to be practicing or am I terribly off? Should I take cuttings now and start over or h2o2 solution? It's evident from the above post n toxicity is not the case here IMO. Heat is only compounding the issue I believe, OR Could the stomata not be opening because of the high temps?? Anymore help is appreciated, sorry I'm so green.

If you never get it below 80 perhaps it is a main issue, but I think the neem oil at that high concentration was bad, and other issues perhaps pH probably caused the yellowing on lower leafs. Your plants don't seem to show symptoms common with over feeding and your cutting your nutes back alot to save that from happening, I've never used blood meal but it says 13.25% N, my ionic grow solution is 4% N, might have to pick me up some blood meal when I get calmag. I've never foliar fed before either, I think you should focus on managing to keep area under 80 degrees if possible, do your plants get any night cycle at all, just curious not sure if you mentioned light cycle but if your suffering temp issues throw the switch for 4 hours a day, they won't grow any slower with 4 hours dark.

GL with the problems, I can't really help you much on the bloodmeal or outlook on that, still trying to figure most of it out aswell. Surprised if your pH stayed stable with the fungus nats and then neem oil issue, plus heat shes been through alot but all stuff you can make sure doesn't reoccur xD.

Yea blood meal is good stuff, but word of caution, it's EXTREMELY HOT. I really have to be careful with it from what I've seen on other threads. I can now tell you my RH is 60-70%, which is perfect I'm told. I'm gonna give Epsom salt a try, I hear it can't hurt and with the problem happening on older foliage and beginning at the tips with red spotted or purple tinted stems, I think it's safe to say it wouldn't hurt. I've been pouring over everything I can find, and seems like I'm still coming up blank. But Iblaze I appreciate the help man, first grow problems can be frustrating to say the least. Here's my newest pics, including whole set up. The 2nd pic is the worst one, with no growth at all in 3-4 days. The 3rd is my strongest plant, though showing the same signs as the previous one, and the last picture is the one I planted at the sametime as the other one, and still isn't growing and it's been 2 weeks for it.

Its hard to say because I've not experienced the neem and foliage feed with blood meal either, but yellowing from bottom to top would be nutrient deficiency in some scenarios, I know mine were progressing bottom to top yellow when she was under fed, but this can be also caused by overwatering, though im not sure if its from bottom to top for overwatering; or pH out of range for roots to take up nutes in soil (this might not be subject to bottom to top movement either, not sure frankly).

What kinda watering system is that? Auto watering or just drip? Anyhow not sure what to suggest, have you checked PPM of the solution your adding? Just curious as well.

imo,, the yellowing is just the plant eating up nutrients she as stored due to the transplant and to survive the bad times lol, as you can she the n been drawn from the tip to the back/base of the leaf she will be concentrating on roots and adjusting to environmental changes ect ect, also mix in with the nute burn straight of the bat, chuck in the high temps adding to the moisture stress caused by nute burn that puts more stress on the roots and while she re rooting, just slightly to much for her, one thing it will lead to her showing all sort of signs of stress ect

80 is to high for many especially reason with out co2, i run co2 but never go out of the range of 72 to 76, might sound crazy, but cheap,is the anyway you could chuck in some cheap(homemade) co2 to help combat the higher temps

also could i ask why you're going to add epson salts, id be thinking more vitb1 thiamine or like rhizotonic help with the stress the rooting, protection against disease and bad pathogens if you're running tap, she could do with all the help she can while she weak ect if