chrishydro
Well-Known Member
I use voodo juice and wash the res every two weeks during veg, I mean soap water and scrub and every week during flower. Roots have always been stellar.
Benificials vs H2O2 in Hydro
- Thread starter BUdbuddysmile
- Start date
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I was pondering the same thing... calcium hypochlorite plus a dash of hydrochloric (muriatic) to limit sodium and optimize the pH and chlorine availability.
But I have decided that the trace of sodium is a small price to pay for a chlorine source of known concentration (CaOCl2 goes off in storage) already in solution. cn
Dont think anyone said they dont work. but what are the advantages of using bacteria to control bacteria over just sterilizing? Do Hospitals put beneficial bacteria into the air to control the bad bacteria or do they just sterilize everything? I can use a gallon of rinso bleach that cost a dollar over those expensive additives like Great White and get the same results. Cost matters.
superstoner1
Well-Known Member
i will tell you a secret, hospitals use good bacteria i many different ways. did you know in your digestive system there are both good and bad bacteria? when there is a deficit of good you can be contagious, very sick, and not able to properly absorb food. sounds a lot like roots using good bacteria to do the same thing. the benefit is making the nutes much easier to absorb resulting in very healthy plants and roots. it is a process that happens naturally but indoors plants dont have that available unless provided. pond zyme is around $15 per pound and will treat thousands of gallons so the price argument doesnt work, you dont have to "cook" it, so its easy. now ask yourself what would you prefer to smoke? natural or chemical?
Clown Baby
Well-Known Member
That last question doesnt make a whole lot of sense in hydro...
The majority of people use chemical nutes to prevent pumps clogging. Just because you add some beneficial bacteria doesnt mean it's not chemical.
The majority of people use chemical nutes to prevent pumps clogging. Just because you add some beneficial bacteria doesnt mean it's not chemical.
I would like some specifics on bacteria usage in hospitals can you please provide a link?
Did you know water is a chemical? I'm so tired of the word organic or natural automatically meaning good and chemical meaning bad.
Yes I am aware our bodies contain a multitude of bacteria good and bad, but its still a balancing act and too much of either is bad for you. I have the option to run my reservoir sterile, I don't have that option for my body. Given the option I choose to run a sterile reservoir because its easy, cheap, and very effective.
superstoner1
Well-Known Member
everybodys first response on here seems to be "provide a link". you want a link do some research, i dont need to, i have watched my wife almost die 3 times from the side effect of the medications causing this bacterial imbalance. have you ever heard of yogurt? know what it is? know why my wifes doctor had her eating it? its bacteria, dumbass. it maintains the balance of good and bad. do your own research before you call someone out.
and that water is a chemical argument is such a narrowed minded statement for people with a lack of true knowledge. stay on track, here water is water, nutes are nutes, and household cleaners and disenfectants are chemicals.
and that water is a chemical argument is such a narrowed minded statement for people with a lack of true knowledge. stay on track, here water is water, nutes are nutes, and household cleaners and disenfectants are chemicals.
Really? Why am I a dumbass? because I requested specifics when you were being vague about your knowledge of bacteria usage in hospitals? Im sorry about your wife but that doesn't excuse calling me a dumbass. It actually gives a good example of the whole balancing act thing I am trying to avoid in my reservoir. Her doctor had her on medications they knew would upset that balance, to make sure that didn't happen they had her take probiotics(yogurt) to maintain the balance.
You still haven't answered my question on why you think running beneficials is superior than going for sterilization especially given the cost difference. I ask because I truly want to know your opinion and reason behind it but if that reasoning is because a doctor recommended yogurt to supplement what i assume were antibiotics then I don't think Ill be talked into try bennies just yet.
sounds like a real hassle ...with 89c worth of bleach administered properly I can save myself over $100 in products and what appears to be 7 less rez cleanings over an 8 week span for stellar roots as well. ......
also the hospital not using benes to clean the air but rather sterilize was the perfect example........ and bringing up health issues of family members and sour topics to deflect attention from getting caught trolling was lame at best bro..... ....
people wouldn't be sharing this cutting edge style for growers to harm the publics crops..... we want good weed to dominate the planet......we all were taught NEVER USE BLEACH in plants(if you were born before !979 at least) however I see much more benefits to it than any other previous trials....... I cut out my brands I swore by to stay sterile(Roots excel, multizyme) and notice better results from not using those $200 products and using bleach. and i am not alone...
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Well i dont spend 100$ on bennys its pennys on the dollar! And cleaning the res every res change is just good to
do!
do!
Your first post here mentions you tried bennies in with synthetics but ran into problems.
then I believe you said you use aquashield and pirhana now? aquashield alone is 35-40 dollars a gallon at least and the directions say 5-15ml per gallon. I agree with you that cost a bunch and is still cheaper than some other products on the market. If both aquashield and bleach give the same results with regards to root development, I am assuming they do as I dont know for sure, bleach blows it away in cost per application without factoring in AN's Piranha. You could pocket the money you save or you can put it to some other kind of upgrade to your grow room.
Bleach Pros;
1. lowest cost per gallon compared to alternatives
2. lower application rate.
3. full sterilization instead of keeping bacteria under control
Bleach Cons;
1. When you tell people you use bleach in hydroponics they look at you funny.
For people afraid of bleach they can look into Calcium Hypochlorite which comes usually in a powder pool shock at 68% calcium hypochlorite. The only reason I see to use bennies is if the results outweight the price increase.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Quite simply, because sterilizing doesn't always work. There are times when you would have to use so much bleach that it would kill the plant. I have watched root slime grow in very high doses of sterilizing agent. I have always said that bennies are for when you are doing everything right and still have slime. This situation isn't all that common, but common enough to warrant a 200 page thread in the DWC section. Sometimes no matter what you do the slime does not go away, unless you use bennies.
As for cost, like anything you look for alternatives. The same lab that makes Great White for the plant success people also has its own version of the product for much cheaper. (mycogrow soluble) $6 worth of powder will make a 100 gallons of tea, which then is diluted to 1 cup per 10 gallon in the res. So one gallon of tea can treat 160 gal res. 100 gallons will treat 16000 of res water. The cost is negligible.
Bennies will also do a few things most sterilizers never will. They will fatten and strengthen roots, induce the plants natural immune response making it harder for mildew or bud rot to set in, Kill gnats and other larvae, allow your res to operate at room temps, and prevents algae growth in the presents of light leaks.
Awesome, thank you Heisenberg that was very informative especially now that I know about the mycogrow stuff.
The only thing im still wondering about is the whole home made tea vs something like aquashield that you just drop into your resevoir. It seems obvious to me that the home made tea is superior based on cost analysis you gave alone but it does take some time to brew before you can add it to your reservoir? how much more effective is a home made tea compared to an off the shelf product?
I have no doubt that for you brewing a tea requires no thought and is easy for you but for a absolute beginner that has had good luck with sterilization thus far im hesitant to try bennies because there seems to be more margin for error. Thank you for listing some benifits of bennies over sterilization but I believe the last two you mentioned ( higher reservoir temps and algae prevention in the presence of light) can be achieved with sodium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite as well. I am still goign to read through the two threads you have linked as im sure will provide a ton of helpful information.
The only thing im still wondering about is the whole home made tea vs something like aquashield that you just drop into your resevoir. It seems obvious to me that the home made tea is superior based on cost analysis you gave alone but it does take some time to brew before you can add it to your reservoir? how much more effective is a home made tea compared to an off the shelf product?
I have no doubt that for you brewing a tea requires no thought and is easy for you but for a absolute beginner that has had good luck with sterilization thus far im hesitant to try bennies because there seems to be more margin for error. Thank you for listing some benifits of bennies over sterilization but I believe the last two you mentioned ( higher reservoir temps and algae prevention in the presence of light) can be achieved with sodium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite as well. I am still goign to read through the two threads you have linked as im sure will provide a ton of helpful information.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
If you have no problems with sterilization then I personally would say to stick with it. Bennies are great but they do not offer enough advantage to switch from something that is working. The side-benefits are subtle, and of course you do not get the other great benefits soil users get, like increased soil exploration. The cost of both bleach and bennies is negligible, so cost really isn't much of a motivator. You are correct the last two I mentioned (no algae, no chiller) can be achieved by some sterilizers as well, I was just too lazy to be more accurate. What remains true is that the motivating reason to use bennies in a synthetic system is to displace an already existing slime outbreak, or to prevent outbreaks if your environment is prone to slime.
My link explains the brew process. Easy as making kool-aide but takes 48 hours. The main advantage over shelf microbe products is diversity and length of utility. IOW the same amount of bacillus that's in aquashield can be used to produce billions of bacteria if brewed in a tea, so the bottle can last months longer. Shelf products generally only give you bennies that can be farmed in a lab, while using a little soil amendment like ancient forest in the tea will include bennies that are only found in the wild. For someone dealing with slime, the extra diversity is very helpful.
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
See you take very little and brew it to large amounts and it last up to ten days!
All you using sterile res methods are missing out on the gain you get with bennys
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
This thread has helped me alot on my sterile or bennie res journey. Thanks for the great info.
Rahz
Well-Known Member
Agreed on the temps. With good temps a sterile environment can still culture bad bacteria. That's why I use bennies. An easy way to use them is to add a small amount to the change out along with a small amount of carbs (I use 1 tsp per 24 gallons) and let it bubble brew for a day or two before doing the change out. Be sure to get PPMs at the desired level before adding carbs or bennies. I've found that it only needs to be done for the first couple weeks and the situation becomes stable, assuming the temps are reasonable, although there's nothing wrong with brewing the changeout through the whole grow. Bennies plus 65 degrees is so reliable I would be surprised if encounter any bacterial issues in my water.