Best Ebb And Grow System

OH k 3 weeks into flowering. yesterday i went in to check on em and one was completely dead. The stalk/ stem was all mushy/ rotten. All the other plants look

great! this one was right next to the drain. My friend said that i am watering too much. I was watering 8 times a day every three hours. I cut it down to 6 times a

day and every 4 hours. What do you think? Do you think that i diagnosed the problem correctly and & am i going about it in the right way to fix it to ensure

that i don't lose my crop.

GreenthumBum said:

OH k 3 weeks into flowering. yesterday i went in to check on em and one was completely dead. The stalk/ stem was all mushy/ rotten. All the other plants look

great! this one was right next to the drain. My friend said that i am watering too much. I was watering 8 times a day every three hours. I cut it down to 6 times a

day and every 4 hours. What do you think? Do you think that i diagnosed the problem correctly and & am i going about it in the right way to fix it to ensure

that i don't lose my crop.

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Sounds like you are watering at night which is not needed, not sure if that is what caused your problem or not. I water every 2 hours with lights on and in 4 years never had that happen.

Wow, every two hours? They are not water lillies. Even in hydroton which doesn't hold a whole bunch of water, you don't need to water more than every 4 hours. I actually water my plants only twice during the last couple weeks and I never water when the lights are off. Your plants actually like to dry out a little, in response to arid conditions they will send out more feeder roots in search of moisture. It's the same with almost all plants really. If you planted a tree in your yard and watered it every other day, it would have a very small and shallow root strcture. If you stopped watering it, it would dry out and die pretty damn quickly.

Water is great and all but only if you have ideal conditions. Roots need lots of air as well to perform the chemical reactions. If the roots are constantly soaking wet, it is NOT a good thing. Later in flowering, some draught stress can be beneficial for the plant. They will speed up oil production and maturation in slightly harsher conditions.

I would water 3 times when the lights are on. Sounds like your water is too high as well. No need to water higher than 1" below the root crown. If your stem rotted, that is almost certainly a function of watering too high. No plant likes a wet trunk.

legallyflying said:

Wow, every two hours? They are not water lillies. Even in hydroton which doesn't hold a whole bunch of water, you don't need to water more than every 4 hours. I actually water my plants only twice during the last couple weeks and I never water when the lights are off. Your plants actually like to dry out a little, in response to arid conditions they will send out more feeder roots in search of moisture. It's the same with almost all plants really. If you planted a tree in your yard and watered it every other day, it would have a very small and shallow root strcture. If you stopped watering it, it would dry out and die pretty damn quickly.

Water is great and all but only if you have ideal conditions. Roots need lots of air as well to perform the chemical reactions. If the roots are constantly soaking wet, it is NOT a good thing. Later in flowering, some draught stress can be beneficial for the plant. They will speed up oil production and maturation in slightly harsher conditions.

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Wrong. Although every 2 hours may be overkill it is certainly not detrimental. Your statement that its beneficial to the plants to dry them out could not be more incorrect, we are not growing in dirt. Show me any other hydro setup that puts the plants through a drought stress. You say roots being constantly wet is not a good thing, aeroponics systems constantly are spraying the roots and that is probably the most efficient hydro setups there are. Yes the root system needs oxygen, and the way they receive that oxygen in an ebb and flow is when your buckets empty, as the water leaves oxygen is sucked down into the buckets.

Lastly, your comparison about over watering a tree in your backyard and feeder roots is like comparing apples to oranges, once again we are not growing in dirt. There is more resistance in dirt for roots to grow, in hydro there is very little and this is exactly why plants grow faster and bigger in hydro. Three times I have had the root systems crack the 3 gallon bucket they were in and I consistently yield 6-8 oz per plant. You keep growing as if you're growing in dirt and I'll stick to what works for me.

Agreed. As long as your roots are getting oxygen you cannot overwater on an ebb & flow.

BadDog40 said:

Wrong. Although every 2 hours may be overkill it is certainly not detrimental. Your statement that its beneficial to the plants to dry them out could not be more incorrect, we are not growing in dirt. Show me any other hydro setup that puts the plants through a drought stress. You say roots being constantly wet is not a good thing, aeroponics systems constantly are spraying the roots and that is probably the most efficient hydro setups there are. Yes the root system needs oxygen, and the way they receive that oxygen in an ebb and flow is when your buckets empty, as the water leaves oxygen is sucked down into the buckets.

Lastly, your comparison about over watering a tree in your backyard and feeder roots is like comparing apples to oranges, once again we are not growing in dirt. There is more resistance in dirt for roots to grow, in hydro there is very little and this is exactly why plants grow faster and bigger in hydro. Three times I have had the root systems crack the 3 gallon bucket they were in and I consistently yield 6-8 oz per plant. You keep growing as if you're growing in dirt and I'll stick to what works for me.

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How can you state that 2 hours isn't detrimental to this guy? How do you know what his water conditions are? Maybe his rez is 75 degree?

apples to oranges? You act as if the principals of plant physiology somehow are different for hydro grown plants. Plants react to stress the same ways regardless of what system you are growing in. Then you compare airoponics to ebb/flow? Completely different set-ups. Water leaving the bucket does draw in oxygen but your talking like 5 minutes. Then your roots are covered in water which creates an anaerobic condition. It wicks away but you they are not sitting in an open air environment like aeroponics. And DWC..ummmm airstones anyone? So mr. super well informed..do we see a pattern between levels of growth and yield and different techniques... yes we do..the level of OXYGEN in the roots. Soil> coco>ebb/flow>DWC> aeroponics...

Show me one instance where they suggest that you water an ebb/flow every two hours... Almost every published general guideline says once every 4 hours. BTW, I'm yielding the same amount per plant and have been toeing closer and closer to 1gram/watt (.89 last run). Although take is cheap soo.....

Legally not only are you incorrect but your abrasive know it all attitude with your amateur setup is laughable. Do you seriously think your plants look healthy? Christ get your own shit right before acting like you know it all.

Nothing like arguing with kids with a grow or two under their belt. Hey legallytrying, show me one documented report where it says you can overwater in hydro and that letting roots dry out is a good thing.

FlyLikeAnEagle said:

Legally not only are you incorrect but your abrasive know it all attitude with your amateur setup is laughable. Do you seriously think your plants look healthy? Christ get your own shit right before acting like you know it all.

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WTF are you talking about? Amateur my ass. That flower room was set up in 3 days when co-op went south. Believe me, I am back to the pimped out sealed set-up with full automation. Show me where my plants look stressed? That big herrer bud was pre-trimmed for a picture.

But like I said.. the proof is in the pictures...so lets see some pics from your grow then? hmmmm?

Baddog, here you go.. now you can say nu uhhh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics under disadvanatges....verticcilium wilt from OVER WATERING which BTW, sounds just like what happened to the guy with the mushy stem. Or is there something else that just causes a stem to just rot? do enlighten us with what would cause that.

Effects of drying out roots... yes EVEN in hydro.

http://www.rosebudmag.com/hydroponic-gardening/air-pruning-for-denser-more-efficient-hydroponics-roots

http://depts.washington.edu/propplnt/Chapters/air-pruning.htm

http://www.superoots.com/pdfs/Greeenmount Final Report IPPS.pdf

legallyflying said:

WTF are you talking about? Amateur my ass. That flower room was set up in 3 days when co-op went south. Believe me, I am back to the pimped out sealed set-up with full automation. Show me where my plants look stressed? That big herrer bud was pre-trimmed for a picture.

But like I said.. the proof is in the pictures...so lets see some pics from your grow then? hmmmm?

Baddog, here you go.. now you can say nu uhhh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics under disadvanatges....verticcilium wilt from OVER WATERING which BTW, sounds just like what happened to the guy with the mushy stem. Or is there something else that just causes a stem to just rot? do enlighten us with what would cause that.

Effects of drying out roots... yes EVEN in hydro.

http://www.rosebudmag.com/hydroponic-gardening/air-pruning-for-denser-more-efficient-hydroponics-roots

http://depts.washington.edu/propplnt/Chapters/air-pruning.htm

http://www.superoots.com/pdfs/Greeenmount Final Report IPPS.pdf

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Every one of those links applies to pruning, nice try though. Grow up kid, one day you'll realize you're not as cool as you think.

legallyflying said:

WTF are you talking about? Amateur my ass. That flower room was set up in 3 days when co-op went south. Believe me, I am back to the pimped out sealed set-up with full automation. Show me where my plants look stressed? That big herrer bud was pre-trimmed for a picture.

But like I said.. the proof is in the pictures...so lets see some pics from your grow then? hmmmm?

Baddog, here you go.. now you can say nu uhhh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics under disadvanatges....verticcilium wilt from OVER WATERING which BTW, sounds just like what happened to the guy with the mushy stem. Or is there something else that just causes a stem to just rot? do enlighten us with what would cause that.

Effects of drying out roots... yes EVEN in hydro.

http://www.rosebudmag.com/hydroponic-gardening/air-pruning-for-denser-more-efficient-hydroponics-roots

http://depts.washington.edu/propplnt/Chapters/air-pruning.htm

http://www.superoots.com/pdfs/Greeenmount Final Report IPPS.pdf

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He already said that every 2 hours was overkill yet you proceeded to spend your day attacking and insulting like a pompous ass, between that and your setup = amateur hour.

Lmfao. They are referring to the air prunning of roots; obviously your in over your head. The rosebud article address the issue of constantly wet or damp roots and the physiological response of water stress, feeder root decay and regeneration. Go ahead and just call people names and make broad statements. I have worked as a wetland biologist and restoration ecologist for the past 12 years. Trust me when i say i understand plants mechanics and environmental response.

Just don't forget that you have posted a single link to defend your stance.

To the poster with rotted stems. Reduce watering, no watering at night (respiration, not transpiration happens at night), I would add some beneficials to your rez or top dress your plants to combat fungal infections that you obviously have. I'm done.

BadDog40 said:

Sounds like you are watering at night which is not needed, not sure if that is what caused your problem or not. I water every 2 hours with lights on and in 4 years never had that happen.

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What kind of system are you using? I am doing flood drain. So just water during ligghts on. N not at night?

I just set it to 6am 12noon 6pm and midnight and the lights are on 6-6 am-p,m

GreenthumBum... you using rockwool, hydroton? whats your medium?

if rockwool you should only need to water 2x a day until mid flower when possibly 3x a day. 10-15 minutes at a time is plenty. If you lights go off at 6pm dont water at 6pm, water at 4:30pm

quit hijacking this guys thread.
He's asking about the best system and you guys are fighting about overwatering?

You can overwater in hydro if your water doesnt have enough dissolved oxygen.

Thats how a DWC works. If you have a giant airpump in there you are fine.
if the air pump craps out, your plants die.

its not really a matter of over or under watering, it's a matter of water temps and D.O.

Lights come on 6pm- 6am. First watering is 6pm second is at midnight, 6hrs later. Two waterings daily now. I am using Beneficials at max

strenght(ORCA). My PPM's are at 600.ph 6. About to start week4. flower.

Sounds like a sound plan. Ppm seems low but maybe your using organics? Week 4-6 typically has the highest concentrations of nutes for me, around 1200-1400. Kind of depends on temps though. If your hot you will have lots of transpiration so probably good to stay on low side

K. . . I am using Hydrotron LECA W/e u wanna call it. I water once daily.

& people saying that hydrotron is hard to clean. . . .lol. If your not cleaning at all from using rockwool er something and then switch to a

medium that you have to clean after you are done then Yah it does seem like a lot of work.

I'm switching from ebb/flow to dwc only to reduce hydroton cleaning. It's not that hard but it is back breaking work. I have 70 gallons of hydroton to clean per cycle.

I fing hate tron