Best organic nutes?

Hey just wanting people's opinion on some good organic fertilizers. I was looking at fox farms cause that's all the hydro shops carry. I was thinking mabey nirvana or canna but I don't really want to order online. I've never grown professionaly b4 so I kinda want to just buy like a package deal. Nutes for every stage of growth. Does anyone sell anything like that or will I have to just pick and choose what I want? If so what all do u guys recommend?

Go down to your local nursery or garden center (Home Depot or Lowes even) and look at the Espoma line. Their Bio Tone and their Plant Tone are great vegging nutes, and all you have to do is add some bone meal or kelp during flowering.
Time to get out of that "Hydro Shop" mentality. They are never the most cost effective places to buy things you need. Everything you need to grow great weed can be had at any nursery or garden center.


www.espoma.com

Ya that's a good idea. I live right down the road from a huge greenhouse/nursery! And there are a bunch of those up here. I'll check it out ASAP. Thx for the advise

yeah i agree with jack harer, also the nursery at your local sell the good soil/soilless for good price as well.

666

There ya go!!! I use my local nursery's "house mix" as a base for all my soils. I add my EWC, Bunny Poo, Bio-Char and any other amendments (like some Espoma) to that. As long as a "soil" has good drainage and water retention it's all good. You can add your OWN nutes.

Chronicsen said:

Hey just wanting people's opinion on some good organic fertilizers. I was looking at fox farms cause that's all the hydro shops carry. I was thinking mabey nirvana or canna but I don't really want to order online. I've never grown professionaly b4 so I kinda want to just buy like a package deal. Nutes for every stage of growth. Does anyone sell anything like that or will I have to just pick and choose what I want? If so what all do u guys recommend?

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I don't see an Advanced Nutrients bundle of organics, but I know other growers that have had good results with their lineup.

Here's what they have:

Grandma Enggy's F-1
Grandma Enggy's H-2
Iguana Juice
Mother Earth Super Tea
Nirvana
Organic B Vitamin Booster
Sensizym
Wet Betty
Bud Candy

Lots to choose from, but there's a lot of info on the AN site to help you with your decision.

As for being safe about buying nutrients, I've had luck just going to hydro stores and paying cash. Or Craigslist or eBay.

Good luck!

Motherhugger said:

I don't see an Advanced Nutrients bundle of organics, but I know other growers that have had good results with their lineup.

Here's what they have:

Grandma Enggy's F-1
Grandma Enggy's H-2
Iguana Juice
Mother Earth Super Tea
Nirvana
Organic B Vitamin Booster
Sensizym
Wet Betty
Bud Candy

Lots to choose from, but there's a lot of info on the AN site to help you with your decision.

As for being safe about buying nutrients, I've had luck just going to hydro stores and paying cash. Or Craigslist or eBay.

Good luck!

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I've always had no problem at any local nursery. They have everything you could ever need to grow Cannabis at a fraction of the risk or cost when shopping online or at the "Hydro Store".

Jack Harer said:

I've always had no problem at any local nursery. They have everything you could ever need to grow Cannabis at a fraction of the risk or cost when shopping online or at the "Hydro Store".

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^^^^^^WORD^^^^^^

There is NO such thing as a mj specific nutrient.

However, there IS such a thing as mj specific marketing.

The local nursery/feed store has one and the "Hydro Store" is full of the other.

Your $$$$, you decide.

Wet

Big +1 on the Espoma line!!!

Wait... You want to grow organic and you are looking for bottled nutrients? I'm confused...

Go real organic not poser organic, better results and much cheaper to organically amend your soil than be limited to the few water soluble organic nutes.

I recommend:
Earth worm castings
Nitrogen rich bat guanos
Potassium rich bat guanos
Bone meals
Blood meals
Kelp meals
Sea bird guano
Cow manure
Horse manure
Lama manure
Compost
Fresh forest humus
Lime
Green sand
Alfalfa meal
Fish emulsion
...
and of course real soil (sand, silt, clay) amended with organic matter and teaming with bacteria and fungi.

Up until I got to the point where I started using manures and composts, and the all natural organics, I used the Espoma line with fantastic results. They are dry nutes, mixed into the soil like manures, well balanced with all the trace elements, and infused with the beneficial microbes and fungi. I grew 3 or 4 grows like that, and loved every aspect of the grows.
Now, I use EWC, Rabbit Poo, composts, kelps and meals, but not everyone can do that. If thats the case, I highly recommend the Espoma nutes as the next best thing.

Gastanker said:

...
and of course real soil (sand, silt, clay) amended with organic matter and teaming with bacteria and fungi.

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Except for that part, I'm in 420% agreement.

The best advice I ever got, over 35 years ago, was never to add 'outside' anything to an 'inside' mix. No sand, silt, clay, compost from the pile, nada.

I do a 100% natural mix of my own, using most of the ingredients you listed and also have zero bug problems from using outside stuff.

I DO use outside stuff, outdoors, just not inside.

Wet

Wetdog said:

Except for that part, I'm in 420% agreement.

The best advice I ever got, over 35 years ago, was never to add 'outside' anything to an 'inside' mix. No sand, silt, clay, compost from the pile, nada.

I do a 100% natural mix of my own, using most of the ingredients you listed and also have zero bug problems from using outside stuff.

I DO use outside stuff, outdoors, just not inside.

Wet

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Soil by definition is sand silt and clay - nothing else. The less expensive bags of potting mix often have no sand silt and clay but instead are 100% organic matter with some perlite - this is not a good mix for organic amendments.

By real soil I meant not a sterile growth medium such as coco or peat which completely nullifies all organic amendment use - I didn't mean to mention anything about getting this outdoors but if you know how to properly compost it will not be a problem as all bugs are killed otherwise definitely don't contaminate. And for gods sake don't go with a sterilized soil as none of your organic amendments will ever be broken down. I prefer Happy Frog personally.

When amending soil - Remember, no bacteria and fungi, no nutrients.

why not get a 20 litre pail fill half full of luke warm water and throw your vegetable scaps like orange peels potatoes , egg shells banannas etc everytime stirring the hell out of it every few days add more luke warm water and keep adding within a week you will the best nutrients available ) i did it just for a test and checked it had 2000 ppm so your going to need to screen it to get solids out of it then water it back to desired ppm level about as organic as your going to get

PS: loooks like crap but plants will love it who knows might have to try it then boil it let cool to sorta sterilize it i dunno just my thought

Gastanker said:

Soil by definition is sand silt and clay - nothing else. The less expensive bags of potting mix often have no sand silt and clay but instead are 100% organic matter with some perlite - this is not a good mix for organic amendments.

By real soil I meant not a sterile growth medium such as coco or peat which completely nullifies all organic amendment use - I didn't mention anything about getting this outdoors but if you know how to properly compost it will not be a problem as all bugs are killed otherwise definitely don't contaminate. And for gods sake don't go with a sterilized soil as none of your organic amendments will ever be broken down. I prefer Happy Frog personally.

When amending soil - Remember, no bacteria and fungi, no nutrients.

Click to expand...

What *I* use, is known in the trade as a 'sterile' mix, basically peat moss and perlite. I start to consider it 'soil' when I add EWC. This is from 2 indoor worm bins that I run.

IMO, peat is totally organic. It is nothing but broken down spagnum moss, which I also used to use when I grew Platycerium ferns (Staghorn ferns). It works great with organic amendments, it works great with chemical nutrients. You just need to understand and know how to work with peat moss. Some sort of lime, usually dolomite is the key here. Peat is great for an organic grow. Coco, I have 0 experience with, so IDK.

I have never bought a bagged soil or soil mix. But, from what I've read AFA ingredient lists, just about all of them are peat based mixes. FFOF, Happy Frog, Sunshine #4, ProMix, ................. All can be worked with, just mind the pH of the peat with lime.

I'm really not trying to argue or anything. I HAVE a compost pile and make use of it. I also grow my own bacteria and mycorrhizae, using the worm bins for the bacteria and Alliums (Garlic, onions, Leeks, Shallots), for the Myco's.

I just make sure that outside stuff (where there is a natural balance), stays outside and doesn't make it inside, where it could be a perfect storm. Like, say, fungus gnats from bagged soil being stored outside type of thing.

Am I making any sort of sense here? Not sure myself any longer.

We are in agreement for the most part, I'm just adding my experiences from growing *stuff* over the last 40 years +-.

Wet

DrFever said:

why not get a 20 litre pail fill half full of luke warm water and throw your vegetable scaps like orange peels potatoes , egg shells banannas etc everytime stirring the hell out of it every few days add more luke warm water and keep adding within a week you will the best nutrients available ) i did it just for a test and checked it had 2000 ppm so your going to need to screen it to get solids out of it then water it back to desired ppm level about as organic as your going to get

PS: loooks like crap but plants will love it who knows might have to try it then boil it let cool to sorta sterilize it i dunno just my thought

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Will work fine. Google FPE (Fermented Plant Extracts), for a shit ton of reading.

I use Comfrey and Dandelion myself, because that's what I have the most of.

Stinks like shit and works great. I don't bother boiling it, why would you want to sterilize it and kill all the goodies?

Wet

Jack Harer said:

Go down to your local nursery or garden center (Home Depot or Lowes even) and look at the Espoma line. Their Bio Tone and their Plant Tone are great vegging nutes, and all you have to do is add some bone meal or kelp during flowering.
Time to get out of that "Hydro Shop" mentality. They are never the most cost effective places to buy things you need. Everything you need to grow great weed can be had at any nursery or garden center.
www.espoma.com

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I'm very interested in trying the espoma line. I'm currently using FFOF and top dressing with espoma dolomite. If you don't mind I have a few questions.
Did you use plant tone and bio tone at the same time?
Did you mix it with the soil or top dress?
Did you just top dress the bone meal and kelp?
How much of each did you use per gallon?

Wet -

I think we are in total agreement. I personally do not like the dominantly peat moss and coco mixes. Both of these products are organic and have decent water retention abilities and help aerate the mix but they also are both used because they don't break down easily. If you are using organic nutrients (already broken down/naturally water soluble) then this isn't a problem.

However, if you are using organic amendments such as blood meals and bone meals and the like that are not already broken down you need a highly available source of carbon. Nitrogen for instance breaks down the fastest with a 30:1 C:N ratio so having humus (compost) in the soil helps this - coco and peat don't really count even though they are high in carbon simply due to the rate at which they break down.

Because organic amendments break down slowly you don't want to lose them once they become available and mobile in the soil. Clay has a much much higher CEC than peat and coco; The clay will grab onto your mobile nutrients and hold onto them until the plant uses them much much better than coco and peat. Compost also has a much higher CEC than peat and coco. Compost, silt, and clay also offer more surface area for beneficial bacteria than the other two.

Most soil companies prefer non soil based mixes because of the weight difference - it's much lighter to ship w/o the sand/silt/clay and many add chemical time released pellets so that CEC really doesn't matter. I think coco and peat are great for water retention and aeration but when growing with organic amendments I would always choose a soil with at least some compost and true soil over one without any.

WHAT:
Fox Farms Ocean Forest (micro and macro schtuff)
Alaskan fish emulsion (veg fert)
More bloom [Alaskan fish emulsion] (flower formula)

HOW:
6 parts potting soil
2 parts perlite
1 part vermiculite
1 part chicken manure
1 small handfull lime

Plants are watered daily...
Every third watering use fish emulsion 5-1-1 at 1 tbsp. per gallon. Continue this until the second week of the flowering cycle when stretching stops.
Then mix fish emulsion 5-1-1 with alaska more bloom 0-10-10 at a ratio of 1 teaspoon 5-1-1 to two teaspoons 0-10-10. this will give you a 5-21-21 ratio. use this every third watering until the last week and a half of flowering.
For the last week and a half use plain water. right at the beginning of the flower period (sometimes) add a small amount of lime to your water for one watering to counter any acids that may have built up during the vegetative phase. also sometimes i used to substitute the 5-21-21 mix with chemical 10-60-10 (schultzes super bloom) at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon for two waterings at about week 4-5 of flowering. if there is any yellowing before say week 5 1/2 simply use more 5-1-1 and less 0-10-10. this method resulted in hightimes centerfold plants.... very vigorous. in three gallon grow bags NL#5 vege'd for 30 days yield 1 1/2 ozs. of smooth sweet potent smoke. some strains did closer to two ounces per plant. 2x250w MH. 1 plant per 1 1/2 feet sq. bottom line is you really don't need exotic ingredients to grow killer weed. i'm sure that wormcastings etc. will do the trick for you... but don't feel bad if they're not available in your area... or are beyond your budget. this simple mostly organic set-up will give you EXCELLENT results with common, easily obtained cheap ingredients."

OR

"The soil that I use is Fox Farms Ocean Forest with about one third more pearlite added and a good size handful of bat guano. Then the girls go directly into a #10 pot, no intermediate transplanting. Then they go onto a spinner with a side light to grow the lower branches outwards.

After about three weeks in veg I start adding to the AFF veg about an ounce every second or third watering. I just shake it well and water right away, I did not know that it should sit for 24 hours, I will try that.

Then when the girls are put into bloom they start getting the Bloom version of AFF. They are then feed the veg AFF about every week or so, I just watch the girls and they will tell you what they need as all strains need some what different feedings.

Now during the last four weeks I start adding some unsulfured molasses, about a half ounce about once a week. Also during the bloom I will add an ounce of Folic Acid every week."
don't spaz...adapt. cut out all the corners and use the just the fish emulsion and more bloom and you would still be a ninja. remember supplements.

blimey said:

I'm very interested in trying the espoma line. I'm currently using FFOF and top dressing with espoma dolomite. If you don't mind I have a few questions.
Did you use plant tone and bio tone at the same time?
Did you mix it with the soil or top dress?
Did you just top dress the bone meal and kelp?
How much of each did you use per gallon?

Click to expand...

Their Plant Tone and their Bio Tone Plus are the same thing essentially. The Bio Tone had the added benefit of added mycorrhizae. They now infuse all the "Tones" with mycos, according to them. The espoma products I used are:

BioTone Starter Plus or Plant Tone (2.5 to 3 cups for a 5 gal bucket 3/4 full of soil)
Everything in the "Organic Traditions" line, Kelp, Bone, Cottonseed & Blood meals, lime, etc.
Gro-Tone (Liquid Fish Emulsion)
I keep a bottle of the Earth Tone Insecticidal Soap on hand.

I mixed the tones and bone meal (with EWC) into my mix at the beginning, and top dressed everything else as needed, IE: Kelp) You can cal their tech support line (really friendly) for any dosage or feeding schedules. I tried to "fake off" what I was growing as peppers, but I'm pretty sure dude knew what I was doing after I picked his brain several times!!

Did you really use all the organic traditions? Specifically the gypsum, manure, compost starter, soil acidifier?
Thanks for the help, I'll be trying this for one of my plants in January, and once I get it dialed in I'll do it for my whole garden.