BEWARE of newbies "diagnosing" plants...a small bit of advice

I too was running with too much going on at once early on in the game. Then when my plants health began to decline I didn't even know where to begin. Start with the basics and keep it simple. Noobs ask so many questions about CO2 and "advanced techniques", but the basics of their environment is usually shit. Hot days coupled with ice cold high humidity nights. Poor water source, little to no ventilation, and bragging about all the expensive full lines of fertilizer they are using. I see it nearly everyday. Yes it is very important to experiment/collaborative and innovate, but if its one of your first grows (especially if its your first grow) you should focus on small goals. Proper temps, good airflow, clean water. If you do those things first, then you have a stable environment and may begin to throw in new and exciting variables to really push your skills and plants. For now though, I stand by my original advice of: Find a good solid grower with a well documented journal and start reading, looking at pictures, and asking questions. Typically one person grows per environment, not several or hundreds. Taking bits and pieces from many growers in your early learning stages will most likely overwhelm, confuse, and get you into bad habits.

many of the good growers dont post pics or journals....its hard to no whome to listen to, back in my day there was no internet...U learnt how to grow via other experience...veggies fruit trees and so on....then we got rosenthals book........its the best...its based on years of scientific apps and recorded data.,..it doesnt have opinions based on 1 or two noob grows..........if in doubt get a copy...it is the best info out there.....infact u may be able to find it or links to it here on RUI.....

Here is a tip as well I've used. If you have a tray of many plants that you are growing, start one or two into flower (if you have a seperate veg/flower room) one or two weeks ahead of the rest of the run. Work with these plants as normal and document their reactions to your methods weekly. That way when you flower the majority of your plants you will know what and how the genetics will react to whatever you are doing to them at what ever stage and will be able to plan ahead for deficiencies or whatever the issue may be. If you don't have the resources to do this, then practice with tomato plants and chili peppers. I throw my normal veggies into my flowering tent (not in the canopy) and they typically fruit and flower weekly around the same rate.

the only time I ever see a true calcium or magnesium issue is if I inadvertently supplement them with it... like some nutes are for RO and soft water...they have extra cal mag, but when I mix and feed that it is too much calcium or magnesium and it locks them out..

I thought his post was a perfect example of noobs spouting the newest fad as fact..lol.

richinweed said:

many of the good growers dont post pics or journals....its hard to no whome to listen to, back in my day there was no internet...U learnt how to grow via other experience...veggies fruit trees and so on....then we got rosenthals book........its the best...its based on years of scientific apps and recorded data.,..it doesnt have opinions based on 1 or two noob grows..........if in doubt get a copy...it is the best info out there.....infact u may be able to find it or links to it here on RUI.....

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and really that is it...you don't know til you just do it and learn..but i am just saying to not listen to what internet people tell you...and put down the nutes...nice and easy...I am inexperienced in the way that I haven't been doing this very long...but I have some sense, and do have some experience...but there are some people posting on here that there is no way they have grown anything worth a damn with all the crazy shit they spew about...lol.

Bayou bud said:

I too was running with too much going on at once early on in the game. Then when my plants health began to decline I didn't even know where to begin. Start with the basics and keep it simple. Noobs ask so many questions about CO2 and "advanced techniques", but the basics of their environment is usually shit. Hot days coupled with ice cold high humidity nights. Poor water source, little to no ventilation, and bragging about all the expensive full lines of fertilizer they are using. I see it nearly everyday. Yes it is very important to experiment/collaborative and innovate, but if its one of your first grows (especially if its your first grow) you should focus on small goals. Proper temps, good airflow, clean water. If you do those things first, then you have a stable environment and may begin to throw in new and exciting variables to really push your skills and plants. For now though, I stand by my original advice of: Find a good solid grower with a well documented journal and start reading, looking at pictures, and asking questions. Typically one person grows per environment, not several or hundreds. Taking bits and pieces from many growers in your early learning stages will most likely overwhelm, confuse, and get you into bad habits.

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I think it is just all about learning the best way to grow this plant...some people don't top and some people do, some people scrog, while others only sog..lol. You zig and I zag...but we're all puffin in the end..except for all those poor new people that really thought they needed epsom salts, or even more nitrogen...they won't get to share, because they let some internet yahoo talk them into something they didn't need....

People new to growing will always tell you to use more nutes...experienced growers will always say to use less....lol. Unless of course you aren't using any...then you might want to...

missnu said:

the only time I ever see a true calcium or magnesium issue is if I inadvertently supplement them with it... like some nutes are for RO and soft water...they have extra cal mag, but when I mix and feed that it is too much calcium or magnesium and it locks them out..

I thought his post was a perfect example of noobs spouting the newest fad as fact..lol.

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....funny thing, when i use the cheapo ferts (wich i still do for some apps) and back in the day when i used nothing but miricle grow...and there were no cartoon bottle ferts, no one ever had these problems, i stopped growing for 5 years and ran my first crop on straight mirical grow and had awsome results (as usual)....the fert companies market 3.4.5 part nutes to sell u five bottles that are 60 percent water....many nute companies buy it as a powder and bottle it to make it more marketable....there are 3 or 4 fertilizer producers in the western hemisphere were all the base nutes come from....4-real.........dont fool yerself by false adds and noob hype...not everything is calmag related, and just cause the cartoon on the bottle is "cool" doesnt mean it works anybetter than the tried and true methods...if u want true and real control over ferts, 3 part nute isnt it..unless the whole spectrum of nutes are only three things...there are a hundred thousand variables...and 50 products with 200 individual bottles of the same stuff u get in any quality 1 part just add water mix.......if you add extras to that u just lower your ppm of your base to accomidate the extras and keep ppm stable...any way just my opinion...based on 25 years hands on grow time!......

missnu said:

So you are saying that you needed magnesium because your water was hard?

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No I said that I needed magnesium because the dissolved solids in my water were all calcium.

That was what I meant by this paragraph,

curious2garden said:

"I finally hauled out my chem gear and tested my water. Almost all the dissolved solids here were Ca! As soon as I boosted them with Mg they began to grow like, well, weeds. I added in an RO unit so I KNEW what nutrients my plants were getting and I was able to complete a grow without further incident. "

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cannofbliss said:

your magnesium was locked out from most likely the high chlorination and calcium content of your water... just sayin btw...

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No there was no magnesium content. I tested the water.

cannofbliss said:

p.s. just so you know from my earlier post to missinu... dont think im calling you curious2garden an artard... it has nothing to do with you...

the Mg part you brought up just reminded me of the OP's subject thread and it reminded me of how i see alot of noobs will see a post with someone asking for help and then they get a bunch of wrong diagnosis and a majority of them will spout out "oh its def Mg deficient" and the poor OP asking for help will see that "most" have said "Mg" so they think thats whats wrong with their plants, when in fact it is something entirely different...

then they end up screwing up their plants even more by adding something they never needed in the first place...

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No offense taken. My plants were showing the hallmark sign of punctate rust spots indicative of Mg deficiency. The differential diagnosis was when the Mg additive cured the problem.

curious2garden said:

No there was no magnesium content. I tested the water.



No offense taken. My plants were showing the hallmark sign of punctate rust spots indicative of Mg deficiency. The differential diagnosis was when the Mg additive cured the problem.

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Or was it the cal mag, or was it where you started using RO water and not your bad tap?

cabinetgrown said:

Keep it simple
More is NOT always better...in fact, more frequently- less is more
Keep it simple
There is not a magic formula for success
Did I mention to Keep it simple?

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Rep+ for beautifully put 2 cents. Common sense!

The best (or at the very least the most practical) information I've found about marijuana is by reading books that have nothing to do with growing cannabis.

curious2garden said:

No there was no magnesium content. I tested the water.



No offense taken. My plants were showing the hallmark sign of punctate rust spots indicative of Mg deficiency. The differential diagnosis was when the Mg additive cured the problem.

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what i was saying was that Mg gets locked out of your PLANT if you have high Ca and Cl in your water silly

cannofbliss said:

what i was saying was that Mg gets locked out of your PLANT if you have high Ca and Cl in your water silly

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Thanks cannofbliss, so then why would adding magnesium fix the problem? I treated them with magnesium sulphate mixed with my tap water prior to switching to RO water. So from then on I just added additional Mg to the reservoir at the same amount as their initial treatment.

Further once I moved to RO and removed all the latent CaCl why did they require even more Mg? If it was lockout caused by tapwaters CaCl content wouldn't it have resolved after the move to RO water? Instead my plant's need for Mg seemed to climb in direct proportion to their size.

Interesting too I'm running clones of the originals and they are also showing the same need for more Mg in comparison to the Pre-98 Bubba Kush I have growing from seed next to them (the Bubbas are now just shy of 3 months old), that is fat and happy without any extra Mg. I am beginning to think some strains of cannabis are simply Mg hogs.
Thanks for your input,
Annie

curious2garden said:

Thanks cannofbliss, so then why would adding magnesium fix the problem? I treated them with magnesium sulphate mixed with my tap water prior to switching to RO water. So from then on I just added additional Mg to the reservoir at the same amount as their initial treatment.

Further once I moved to RO and removed all the latent CaCl why did they require even more Mg? If it was lockout caused by tapwaters CaCl content wouldn't it have resolved after the move to RO water? Instead my plant's need for Mg seemed to climb in direct proportion to their size.

Interesting too I'm running clones of the originals and they are also showing the same need for more Mg in comparison to the Pre-98 Bubba Kush I have growing from seed next to them (the Bubbas are now just shy of 3 months old), that is fat and happy without any extra Mg. I am beginning to think some strains of cannabis are simply Mg hogs.
Thanks for your input,
Annie

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ahhh... reservoir as in hydro??? cause i have never had Mg deficiency... ever... i guess thats another reason why i prefer soil

but nevertheless, there could have been other factors such as too high ppm and or especially pH issues... and by adding more Mg being alkaline, raised the pH up to where your plants needed it to be, or in some cases "certain strains" levels to where all of the nutrients were readily avail...

Or... due to that Mg, oddly enough, and as a consequence, since you are using hydro, probably pH'd below 6... as it should be

and anything below 6 on the pH, the amount of solubility of Mg drops off rapidly... so you had to adjust for "less solubility" by adding more of it to compensate...


but hey its all said and done with anyways, and you saved them, saw your journal and congrats on a completed grow btw... and you got a decent harvest out of it, so hey thats whats important right... and glad to see that you made it through so well, cause surprisingly so many people for their first time, dont even make it through, especially in hydro so kudos and +rep to you

what i see now are much healthier plants...

arent you glad u switched to soil??? {EDIT} >>> had myself an artard moment when was too high to read her full journal where she stated "sunshine soiless mix... LOL i give myself the dunce cap award ...

i just happened to see your journal and plants and have to say that they are looking quite healthy compared to last grow...

just sayin in no offense to you, but it looks like you may have just some bad genetics...

perhaps its just the photos, but the genetics just dont look right if you ask me...

or either that they have the base "strains" like "bubba" or "aurora" and have indica in them but those are just some bad genetics...

here is a pic of someone elses grow as this should be a prime example of what is a VERY typical pheno and look of what that type of that especially aurora indica strain should look like...

even though you arent flowering yet, and even though he "says" "skunky pheno" dont pay attention to it cause i believe he is partially somewhat retarded lol...

but anyways compare your aurora and see the difference and bushyness of the plant and short node spacing...



here is another good typical example with less flowers...



there again you can see the difference, and your lighting should be adequate still to get this kind of result if you had the good genetics to go along with it and its not just about having a 1000 watt to produce this kind of bushiness, as it is mainly genetics...


anyways just tryin to help...



p.s. is that an inspector spacetime booth i see???

alonefarmer420 said:

ya but just cuz someones post count is low doesn't mean that's how long they have been growing or around cannabis....

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Perfectly said

but i thought noobs knew everything...hmm

curious2garden said:

Thanks cannofbliss, so then why would adding magnesium fix the problem? I treated them with magnesium sulphate mixed with my tap water prior to switching to RO water. So from then on I just added additional Mg to the reservoir at the same amount as their initial treatment.

Further once I moved to RO and removed all the latent CaCl why did they require even more Mg? If it was lockout caused by tapwaters CaCl content wouldn't it have resolved after the move to RO water? Instead my plant's need for Mg seemed to climb in direct proportion to their size.

Interesting too I'm running clones of the originals and they are also showing the same need for more Mg in comparison to the Pre-98 Bubba Kush I have growing from seed next to them (the Bubbas are now just shy of 3 months old), that is fat and happy without any extra Mg. I am beginning to think some strains of cannabis are simply Mg hogs.
Thanks for your input,
Annie

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when you were using tap water there was too much...then when you switched to RO there is none...so you would have to add it in RO, but not with tap...that is why after you switched to RO and started using calmag everything got better...then it was right, but you were oding on calmag before using it with your tap...

SelfDutchOven said:

Perfectly said

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this is very true..but I never discount something a person says because their post count was low...I only discount their info as noobery if it is too chock full with noobie goodness you can just tell....like when every spot needs more Cal-mag or nitrogen...
It isn't the number of posts, but the content of those posts on which we should judge our fellow forum surfers.

+rep if you don't know don't post what you think might help just to be posting